NSA domestic spying in place BEFORE 9/11

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Today, the Washington Post publishes additional details about the Bush administration’s warrantless wiretapping, noting that the National Security Agency approached Qwest “more than six months before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.” But the Body Politik’s Igor Volsky points out that President Bush has claimed that the program was put in place in response to 9/11:

"After September the 11th, I vowed to the American people that our government would do everything within the law to protect them against another terrorist attack. As part of this effort, I authorized the National Security Agency to intercept the international communications of people with known links to al Qaeda and related terrorist organizations."

Kagro X adds, “If Qwest’s competitors were already abetting this bloodless(?) coup before 9/11, then the ‘administration’s’ domestic spying not only has little if anything to do with response to terrorism, but it also objectively failed to prevent 9/11.”

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 14 October 2007 00:50 (eighteen years ago)

via Think Progress

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 14 October 2007 00:52 (eighteen years ago)

guys?

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 14 October 2007 01:02 (eighteen years ago)

good work, chomsky

moonship journey to baja, Sunday, 14 October 2007 01:18 (eighteen years ago)

Kagro X adds

gershy, Sunday, 14 October 2007 01:23 (eighteen years ago)

All I can say is, it is a shame that the USA does not have a tradition of using the guillotine. We seem to have a monarch who needs its tender touch.

Aimless, Sunday, 14 October 2007 02:18 (eighteen years ago)

Kagro X adds

Yeah seriously.

31g, Sunday, 14 October 2007 03:14 (eighteen years ago)

Guys, despite Kagro X, this is not some dickhead's blog. There is an actual outrageous story here.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 14 October 2007 03:22 (eighteen years ago)

It's not, really. An objectionable program that was justified using 9/11 was thought up before it, and Bush lied about something. It's not the first time either of those things have happened.

31g, Sunday, 14 October 2007 03:30 (eighteen years ago)

"Kagro X" is one of the editors at daily kos - worked on the hill for a while - knows his stuff. Not just some random guy with a blog.

daria-g, Sunday, 14 October 2007 03:33 (eighteen years ago)

"editor at daily kos" not much of a credibility booster

gershy, Sunday, 14 October 2007 03:42 (eighteen years ago)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/sevenxviii/hardforahoos.jpg

gershy, Sunday, 14 October 2007 03:42 (eighteen years ago)

An objectionable program that was justified using 9/11 was thought up before it

Am I ill-informed? When has this happened?

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 14 October 2007 03:43 (eighteen years ago)

I guess I can't think of an example so maybe you're right. The point is that this isn't a "bloodless(?) coup" or the long-awaited smoking gun that Bush is the worst president ever. Also, I already saw it posted on BCO.

31g, Sunday, 14 October 2007 04:12 (eighteen years ago)

Am I ill-informed? When has this happened?

uh how about iraq ii

moonship journey to baja, Sunday, 14 October 2007 04:15 (eighteen years ago)

Nobody cared when details emerged that Bush II's Iraq plans were drawn up before 9/11 so why should anyone care now? Really the only thing that's changed is that this is the digital version of the analog COINTELPRO and the hope is that the NSA will do a better job at it than the FBI did during the collective freakout after Oklahoma City and the WTO riots.

Bottom line: government abuse is a bipartisan effort
Bottom line 2: the walls have ears and the ears are listening with Crays.

Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 14 October 2007 04:42 (eighteen years ago)

i don't care about any of this bollocks. if 9/11 was an inside handjob, that's cool with me, it's their buildings.

max r, Sunday, 14 October 2007 04:54 (eighteen years ago)

Nobody cared when details emerged that Bush II's Iraq plans were drawn up before 9/11 so why should anyone care now? Really the only thing that's changed is that this is the digital version of the analog COINTELPRO and the hope is that the NSA will do a better job at it than the FBI did during the collective freakout after Oklahoma City and the WTO riots.

i don't understand this. cointelpro has nothing to do with the 1990s, as i'm sure you know. you're saying the fbi was engaged in domestic spying during the clinton era? got any proof?

hstencil, Sunday, 14 October 2007 05:20 (eighteen years ago)

uh how about iraq ii

-- moonship journey to baja, Sunday, 14 October 2007 04:15

You really don't think there's a qualitative difference between a program explicitly justified by 9/11 and a war justified by a variety of faulty reasons, among which was an insinuated but never heavily relied upon connection to 9/11?

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 14 October 2007 05:56 (eighteen years ago)

Qwest to NSA:
"M'am, we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. My bartender, myself, and my general manager will not tolerate your hate speech on our property. We have not and will not charge you a cent and you're free to take your business elsewhere. I'd rather not call the police, but if you insist on continuing to disturb our guests I will. Please leave."

gershy, Sunday, 14 October 2007 05:57 (eighteen years ago)

But you've clearly made up your mind already, "Chomsky," so nevermind me.

oh go eat a fucking dick gershy

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 14 October 2007 05:58 (eighteen years ago)

Occupy your mouth elsewhere.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 14 October 2007 05:59 (eighteen years ago)

Gershy, I fucked up. It's no excuse, but I drank too much sake and had a shitty day at work. I apologize.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 14 October 2007 06:33 (eighteen years ago)

you're saying the fbi was engaged in domestic spying during the clinton era? got any proof?

http://www.judibari.org/

Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 14 October 2007 08:29 (eighteen years ago)

Also, any group active in Native American rights, the environment, and Central American policy that wasn't conguent with official US policy was spyed on by the FBI.

Fucking hell, hstencil - you can be so goddamn lazy at times.

Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 14 October 2007 08:34 (eighteen years ago)

Systemic wiretapping vs. boring FBI moles

Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Sunday, 14 October 2007 10:17 (eighteen years ago)

Sorry, Hoos, my outragometer blew out years ago. These guys would have to start issuing hunting licenses for registered dems before any abuse of power they came up with would shock me.

Oilyrags, Sunday, 14 October 2007 12:37 (eighteen years ago)

Former CEO Says U.S. Punished Phone Firm
Qwest Feared NSA Plan Was Illegal, Filing Says

By Ellen Nakashima and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, October 13, 2007; A01

A former Qwest Communications International executive, appealing a conviction for insider trading, has alleged that the government withdrew opportunities for contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars after Qwest refused to participate in an unidentified National Security Agency program that the company thought might be illegal.

Former chief executive Joseph P. Nacchio, convicted in April of 19 counts of insider trading, said the NSA approached Qwest more than six months before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, according to court documents unsealed in Denver this week.

Details about the alleged NSA program have been redacted from the documents, but Nacchio's lawyer said last year that the NSA had approached the company about participating in a warrantless surveillance program to gather information about Americans' phone records.

In the court filings disclosed this week, Nacchio suggests that Qwest's refusal to take part in that program led the government to cancel a separate, lucrative contract with the NSA in retribution. He is using the allegation to try to show why his stock sale should not have been considered improper.

Nacchio was convicted for selling shares of Qwest stock in early 2001, just before financial problems caused the company's share price to tumble. He has claimed in court papers that he had been optimistic that Qwest would overcome weak sales because of the expected top-secret contract with the government. Nacchio said he was forbidden to mention the specifics during the trial because of secrecy restrictions, but the judge ruled that the issue was irrelevant to the charges against him.

Nacchio's account, which places the NSA proposal at a meeting on Feb. 27, 2001, suggests that the Bush administration was seeking to enlist telecommunications firms in programs without court oversight before the terrorist attacks on New York and the Pentagon. The Sept. 11 attacks have been cited by the government as the main impetus for its warrantless surveillance efforts.

The allegations could affect the debate on Capitol Hill over whether telecoms sued for disclosing customers' phone records and other data to the government after the Sept. 11 attacks should be given legal immunity, even if they did not have court authorization to do so.

Spokesmen for the Justice Department, the NSA, the White House and the director of national intelligence declined to comment, citing the ongoing legal case against Nacchio and the classified nature of the NSA's activities. Federal filings in the appeal have not yet been disclosed.

In May 2006, USA Today reported that the NSA had been secretly collecting the phone-call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by major telecom firms. Qwest, it reported, declined to participate because of fears that the program lacked legal standing.

In a statement released after the story was published, Nacchio attorney Herbert Stern said that in fall 2001, Qwest was approached to give the government access to the private phone records of Qwest customers. At the time, Nacchio was chairman of the president's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee.

"Mr. Nacchio made inquiry as to whether a warrant or other legal process had been secured in support of that request," Stern said. "When he learned that no such authority had been granted and that there was a disinclination on the part of the authorities to use any legal process, including the Special Court which had been established to handle such matters, Mr. Nacchio concluded that these requests violated the privacy requirements of the Telecommunications Act."

Stern could not be reached for comment yesterday. Another lawyer for Nacchio, Jeffrey Speiser, declined to comment on whether the call-records program was the program discussed at the February 2001 meeting.

In a May 25, 2007, order, U.S. District Judge Edward W. Nottingham wrote that Nacchio has asserted that "Qwest entered into two classified contracts valued at hundreds of millions of dollars, without a competitive bidding process and that in 2000 and 2001, he participated in discussion with high-ranking (redacted) representatives concerning the possibility of awarding additional contracts of a similar nature." He wrote, "Those discussions led him to believe that (redacted) would award Qwest contracts valued at amounts that would more than offset the negative warnings he was receiving about Qwest's financial prospects."

The newly released court documents say that, on Feb. 27, 2001, Nacchio and James Payne, then Qwest's senior vice president of government systems, met with NSA officials at Fort Meade, expecting to discuss "Groundbreaker," a project to outsource the NSA's non-mission-critical systems.

The men came out of the meeting "with optimism about the prospect for 2001 revenue from NSA," according to an April 9, 2007, court filing by Nacchio's lawyers that was disclosed this week.

But the filing also claims that Nacchio "refused" to participate in some unidentified program or activity because it was possibly illegal and that the NSA later "expressed disappointment" about Qwest's decision.

"Nacchio said it was a legal issue and that they could not do something that their general counsel told them not to do. . . . Nacchio projected that he might do it if they could find a way to do it legally," the filing said.

Mike German, policy counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union, said the documents show "that there is more to this story about the government's relationship with the telecoms than what the administration has admitted to."

Kurt Opsahl, senior staff attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said: "It's inappropriate for the government to be awarding a contract conditioned upon an agreement to an illegal program. That truly is what's going on here."

The foundation has sued AT&T, charging that it violated privacy laws by cooperating with the government's warrantless surveillance program.

Staff researcher Richard Drezen contributed to this report.

Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Sunday, 14 October 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

This stuff has gotten so annoying that it just reminds me to renew my ACLU membership and drop the token complaint letter to my congressman in the mailbox every once in a while. Is it bad that I just support organizations that are doing the due diligence work for me so I don't have to shit myself in righteous anger every time a new fact comes out?

mh, Sunday, 14 October 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

fucking hell, elvis telecom, you can be so obtuse at times. all i asked was for information, not a fucking admonishment.

hstencil, Sunday, 14 October 2007 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

it would be bad if you didn't support them, the due dilligence is what they do

stevie, Sunday, 14 October 2007 16:41 (eighteen years ago)

I just want to announce that I never had anything to do with this shit

El Tomboto, Monday, 15 October 2007 15:42 (eighteen years ago)

i know that wasn't meant to be funny, but i laughed.

The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Monday, 15 October 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

two months pass...

I just want to announce that I never had anything to do with this shit

-- El Tomboto, Monday, 15 October 2007 15:42

http://www.nuttersmark.com/images/blog/vegaspost/vegas2.png

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 23 December 2007 10:13 (eighteen years ago)

Hoover sez: Let's round up every disloyal American

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 23 December 2007 14:52 (eighteen years ago)

six months pass...

Can't remember if this was posted here before, but here's your program for Domestic Spying 2008. Can't tell the players without a program!

Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 17 July 2008 08:29 (seventeen years ago)


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