Stephen Fry: please explain why this man is a "national treasure"

because he's funny, clever and nice.

and his quote about swearing.

Dude was kinda funny in the 80s, but so was Mike McShane and I ain't see anyone queueing up to get Air Canada adverts released on DVD.

he wasn't all that funny in the 80's, but then again mike mcshane certainly wasn't either.

Dom Passantino doesn't like chubby gay men?

Who knew?

Manning? How so? Is "reactionary" being used here to mean anything more concrete than "guy has a posh accent"?

Fry's "lol waht is pop culture?" schtick is as reactionary as they come.

Yr confusing Fry with Hislop there.

And Dylan Moran as well, yeah. Nah, Fry's is a lot worse than Hislop, at least Hislop sets himself up as this kinda pompous figure when he's doing all that "What's an Arctic Monkey?" steez, Fry's asking for your approval when he does it.

b-but Stephen Fry always seems quite well-versed in popular culture? When did he start becoming all Hislopesque about it?

riffing on pop culture from the outside isn't as pathetic as pretending to 'get' the 'yoof', anyway.

anyway, you could forgive him anything for those beautiful plummy tones.

if you look at the work, there is a marked decline from 'a bit of fry and laurie' to that godawful thing where he's a lawyer.

Worst thread ever (at least for this week). Fry's less reactionary and predictable than 90% of the posters on ILX. He's certainly open and receptive to pop culture, dunno where Dom gets his info from.

the glasgow crybabies will be along in a minute no doubt

god yeah, moran's "hoodies with rappity rap music on their mobile telephony?!?!!?" gig is completely intolerable.

dunno where Dom gets his info from

His arse?

I seem to remember reading years ago that SF was a huge fan of 'Loveless'.

Fry's less reactionary and predictable than 90% of the posters on ILX

THAT'S AN ACHIEVEMENT

He called Led Zeppelin a "guilty pleasure".

Fuck him.

I'm sure he'd let you.

How can anyone get that bothered about the guy one way or the other? He's OK-ish sometimes, I suppose? Not really the sort of person you'd expect anyone to have strong feelings about.

Oh, that kind of "reactionary". I thought it was related to Manning accusation and was waiting for some political dirt to be dished for me to be surprised at.

I haven't noticed that to anything like the extent that Hislop does it (or is happy to set himself up for it on HIGNFY, at least) and I don't see it so much as "gosh what lowbrow filth all that muck is" as "laugh at me for being a fat old posh guy who'd rather stay home with some classical LPs than attempt to stay in touch". But that argument didn't work out too well for anyone on the Ian Hislop thread so I don't expect it to do so here either.

But I don't mind much from people like Fry or Hislop, because they're just self-effacingly exaggerating expectations for someone of their age/background. Considerably less impressed with 30-something Moran dragging out the "oh god there's no tunes and it all goes thump a lot and there aren't any words and i don't like the words there are" thing.

PS I think Fry is, or used to be, great and don't really want to watch him being less than great in cosy Sunday evening series so have not seen anything Fry has done in past 5 years except QI (yes, I know that pretty much is too) and the bipolar and HIV documentaries.

he's probably the jeremy clarkson for people who love to hate jeremy clarkson.

And what's wrong with that?

I seem to remember reading years ago that SF was a huge fan of 'Loveless'.

I saw SF on Clive Anderson raving about My Bloody Valentine in '92 or so.

Burden of proof lies with Dom here. "Fat" I'll give you, the rest needs a bit of support.

(Wagner was also a guilty pleasure of his, btw).

'and what's wrong with that?'

well, nothing. unless you hate stephen fry and jeremy clarkson, in which case i suppose your stuck with louis theroux or michael palin for telly filler.

I seem to remember reading years ago that SF was a huge fan of 'Loveless'.

-- Stevie T, Monday, October 15, 2007 12:43 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

qed

that new palin show is total shite, actually.

Go on Dom, start a thread about how kittens are cunts, it's obviously the next step.

As they say, the stupid persons idea of a clever person.

His poetry and classical music appreciation books are pretty anti-intellectual/downright stupid. Try to read the 20rh C section of the latter.

What happened to the QI club they opened in Oxford? Is it still open?

As they say, the stupid persons idea of a clever person.

jesus, who ever says this? you'd have to punch them.

My brother said it. I didn't punch him. It's true tho'.

kanye west- the white person's idea of a black person

the glasgow crybabies will be along in a minute no doubt

Very good.

He's a telly presenter and comedy actor, he doesn't need to be a genius to stand out from the pack as being a wee bit clever.

I think he's often funny and interesting and knowledgeable and I think he would be good company. His comedy roles, like his novels, have been a bit hit and miss. His doc on bipolar disorder was good. I don't think he's a national treasure any more than I think he's a reactionary prick.

Not really the sort of person you'd expect anyone to have strong feelings about.
Pashmina otm

kanye west- the white person's idea of a black person

Yeah, when white people stereotype black people they always come up w/someone that resembles Kanye.

he's a bit much

I was a bit surprised not to find any mention of his recent two aids programmes, unless I missed it.

I like his new blog, I like his interviews - I'm not so keen on his acting.

Why is he a 'national treasure'? I'd guess because he seems open- minded, reasonable, and has a deft turn of phrase. And -er- it helps that he's an unthreatening a gay person (compare with 'national treasures' - Elton John, Larry Grayson, John Inman r.i.p).

lol aids

One of my lecturers at University was the only woman he ever slept with. She seemed pretty displeased at whatever he said about her in his autobiography.

What happened to the QI club they opened in Oxford? Is it still open?

Arghrgh! I will defend SF on the internet but the QI club makes me ANGRY. The bookshop's still there (or was last time I walked down that street, probably a while ago now) and there's still a bar area I've not dared wander into but I don't know if the club's still going.

I hope not, really, I mean there are plenty of people in Oxford who want to spend money on joining an expensive members-only club of rich elitists who want to sit around thinking how their sophisticated erudite selves are so much more Quite Interesting than people who haven't paid up, but if they're eligible (and I dare say most of them are, or have been here since they were) then surely they've already joined the Union...

(They do at least open their doors for the vulgar mob to see some music nights now but I gather there's hardly any room and everyone chatters right through)

fucking union. go to a pub, cunts.

Not sure whether to read that as a) "you're right, Union people are cunts", or b) "you're a cunt, shut up", so I'm going to got for c) "you're a cunt (but so are union cunts, the cunts)", in which case yeah, OTM.

We should have a superhero themed bar crawl.

it's been done, and it's not as much fun as it sounds

headinhands.jpg

anyway, onimotm upthread.

I like him a lot as a comic actor.
Not so much as a presenter.

Not sure whether to read that as a) "you're right, Union people are cunts", or b) "you're a cunt, shut up", so I'm going to got for c) "you're a cunt (but so are union cunts, the cunts)", in which case yeah, OTM.

-- a passing spacecadet, Monday, October 15, 2007 1:32 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

no no, it's just a).

that's what i said on the crisps thread and got killed for it.

conversely, the only people i follow who also follow justin bieber are amy winehouse, taylor swift, snoop dogg and...suzanne moore

You may not believe this from my hideous omnipresence but my preferred number of publicity assignments is exactly zero. If I could get away with NO radio interviews, NO magazine profiles, NO television chat shows, NO bookshop signings, NO stage events then I would. All those who know me and work with me will confirm this. I am a very very reluctant mule when it comes to these awful moments of necessary negotiation with the publicity people attached to books and films and TV series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkgEGpxyeRg

There's no point in following Fry because someone will retweet everything anyway.

or

There's no point in following Fry because someone will retweet everything anyway.

I was thinking R3 had gone baroque-bonkers this morning, before I realised they were actually broadcasting "A Confection of Ideas - Handel and Borrowing" rather than the usual hard-hitting up-to-the minute news reporting of Sara Mohr-Pietsch.

Yeah it struck me immediately that the Fry story was being presented as "feminists' anger at Stephen Fry" (because we phoned them all up and asked for a quote on an article in a gay mag they would never have read otherwise). The Deborah Orr piece is great and I agree with it wholeheartedly.

You may not believe this from my hideous omnipresence but my preferred number of publicity assignments is exactly zero. If I could get away with NO radio interviews, NO magazine profiles, NO television chat shows, NO bookshop signings, NO stage events then I would. All those who know me and work with me will confirm this. I am a very very reluctant mule when it comes to these awful moments of necessary negotiation with the publicity people attached to books and films and TV series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygdj0ol2OgU

There's no point in following Fry because someone will retweet everything anyway.

people who retweet massive twitter slebs like fry, k. west etc are the WORST - hell0 if i wanted to read what they have to say I WOULD FOLLOW THEM MYSELF

don't get me started on people who retweet alain de fucking botton

and the way de botton himself started following me and a few friends when we started bitching about how trite he was (no @s obviously), and trying to hassle us about it

you'd think he'd've been philosophical about it

What Would Proust Do? (probably be unable to write a tweet in less than 140 characters, that's what)

I don't agree with everything in this blog, but it really does bring up some quite good points about how *not* to apologise (and gets at some of the points of why I was irritated by his supposed apology)

http://pickledthink.blogspot.com/2010/11/dear-stephen-fry-part-deux.html

and the way de botton himself started following me

Ha! He followed me after I asked him for a discount on his holiday homes. Didn't give me one though the cheap bastid.

botlins?

don't get me started on people who retweet alain de fucking botton

OTM

I always appreciate it when people retweet the best bits of Kanye West though. Pretty sure I'm not following anyone famous because I can't really be arsed, so it's good to get the occasional gem of non-self-awareness through.

Botton once emailed me after I'd make a crack about him on a blog. Quite civil after I explained why I didn't like his work.

didnt he cop some shit for some kinda self-googling-induced flameout?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_aWixT7kJKR4/SZK41NYWqDI/AAAAAAAAAGk/HHWwomZyCyA/s1600-h/Taylor+apology+continuum.jpg

clearly not enough? he seems to chase up everyone who criticises him on the internet.

If you're reading this, de Botton, you're a hack and a cunt.

There was a funny old dispute with Nina Power a while ago: http://www.philosophypress.co.uk/?p=778

oh god, nina power is awful

i mean his response is incredible, but she's really, really dire

ah, found the email I sent to de Botton after he asked why I thought he shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Fair question. Happy to explain.

First up, I don't really think you shouldn't exist. If I was given a gun and put in room with you, obviously I wouldn't shoot you, even if promised no consequences: you've got every right to live and earn your crust. And no, there's no need to thank me for granting you that - I consider it common courtesy.

So, I had the following, and it needed a name:

"I have a substantial and colourful vocabulary to describe shitness: one needs it to understand a universe that allows *x*."

Primarily, the right name had to be bathetic (there's no hyperbolic fun in the sentence if you just put 'Hitler' in); after that it was a case of sorting through the options. My first thought was Hollyoaks, but I'd made a similar joke a month or two ago with regard to Hume's vision, in the Dialogues, of 'maimed and abortive children of nature', and it felt a little too close. I decided instead that British Public/T.V. Intellectuals offered a better punchline given register, audience, and the medium. I ran through a few names (Mark Lawson, Bonnie Greer, etc.) but yours felt right, for irrational & acoustic reasons as much as anything. I was comfortable exploiting the fact that your surname closely resembles 'bottom'.

I won't pretend that my opinion of your work doesn't come into it: I couldn't put someone I liked into that slot. It's probable that you're curious about that, rather than my procedure for writing stupid jokes, so I should say a little.

I'm generally an admirer of anthologists, aggregators, essayists and aphorists; however, when I've read your work, I've found it a bit thin. There's no real challenge, and things get simplified. I like the people you write about - love many of them - but the connective tissue isn't there for me, in style or ideas. There's nothing egregiously wrong, I suppose: it just feels summary, and doesn't engage or provoke me. More broadly I wonder about its public function: I suspect that a lot of your audience take a version of Schopenhauer or Flaubert or Proust away, and don't go on to read the thing itself - it's a substitute for engagement with authors, more like crib notes than a guide book. I could be wrong on that, of course, and I guess it's to do with proportions ('if just one person' etc).

If you were genuinely curious, hope this answers your question. If you were expecting a blush and an apology, well, no.

Incidentally, how did you come to notice the comment? A Google News Alert?

He made a brief and civil reply to that.

kind of amazed how young de botton is. he must have been like 24 when he wrote the proust book. kind of sad that some1 that successful should spend their time getting vexed by bloggers.

kind of sadder that someone that shit should be that successful

he seems to chase up everyone who criticises him on the internet

seriously! he seems so thorough about it. idk, no matter how civil you are it's just nagl for someone in his position (and kinda goes against the "life-enhancing" platitudes he actually spouts himself)

Seem to recall Boethius said something apposite about that.

the consolations of a £200m trust fund

kind of amazed how young de botton is

cos he's baldy and looks like he died three years ago?

may not see himself as a success - ambitions must have been artistic/creative once - could easily think of himself as a failed novelist

Was it a Google News Alert xpost

he didn't answer that.

maybe if he turns up in this thread he'll tell us

Already posts here under a Finnish pseudonym iirc

So different are their life experiences, beautiful women and ugly men might as well be classed as different species.
about 5 hours ago via Mobile Web

THX 4 THAT PERT, PROVOCATIVE "INSIGHT" ALAIN

what a useless little bitch he is

botlins?

Haha, no.

These http://www.living-architecture.co.uk/
...all very nice but a bit pricey - not that that seems to have hurt bookings.

Well he would know wouldn't he? 9xp)

Travel agents would be wiser to ask us what we hope to change about our lives rather than simply where we wish to go.
2:12 AM Oct 21st via web

http://www.northweststate.edu/community/Media_Room/images/logos/it_makes_you_think.jpg

That kind of "throw enough potential aphorisms at the wall and one will eventually stick" kind of Twitter posting really annoys me.

You could tweet that - with letters to spare.

From certain angles I look a bit like de botton :(

From De Botton up?

I've only read On Love and read it when I was 23, and he was born six months before me.

Just when this couldn't get any more rubbish, Liz Jones decides to speak up for women.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-1327332/Watch-Brief-Encounter-boys-Then-interested-sex.html

Watch-Brief-Encounter-boys-Then-interested-sex is like TOYNBEE IDEA IN MOVIE 2001 RESURRECT DEAD ON PLANET JUPITER

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toynbee_tiles

Good lord. No matter how much I prepare myself to be amazed and astonished every time I click on any link that contains the words "liz jones" or even a reference thereto, she somehow manages to always surprise me at the depths to which she has plunged.

I almost think that Liz Jones should be awarded some kind of inverse "national treasure" status on some bizarro level.

I mean, how does anyone quite so obviously deranged manage so consistently to be, well ... not even wrong?

im with the guy in him and her on bbc3. 'hes not funny (or even that smart), he's just posh'