Obama: No Hand On Heart For National Anthem

comments thread 4 bonus lulz

http://www.oliverwillis.com/bushstomach.jpghttp://www.oliverwillis.com/bushstomach.jpg
http://www.oliverwillis.com/bushstomach.jpg

Are you pointing out the breast-clutching girl, stage left?

What is this 'United States Code' quoted at the top of the article?

Federal law. "Should" has no legal meaning, however.

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

§176. Respect for flag
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

intriguiging...

You can't bust a guy on a "should" -- this is pretty meaningless legislation.

Still, they are calling him on it. And ignoring everyone who has the flag "embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard".

It's insanely stupid to even present the appearance of indifference toward traditional displays of patriotism, though. WTF could he be thinking?

What the hell is "The flag" anyway. Is this some platonic ideal deal?

"The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart."

Ohhh Kayyyy

The difference?
October 23, 2007 - 07:07 ET by ThisnThat
Osama? Obama? It's really getting hard to tell the difference, in so many ways.

Omaha will be next!

It begins

ledge OTM
stupid flags

lol obama makes the other kids look like tools

the other kids hate him

he always looked kinda french to me. or maybe french-iranian. don't you think?

next headline: "Obama had more sex in high school than everybody else"

"Obama drives a better car than you"

"Obama did all the drugs at all the parties and never got in trouble for it"

"Obama: ties laces in double knots"

do we want an over-cautious worry-wart like this as our commander-in-chief????

"Obama: forgot to say 'ma'm' when thanking his grandmother for coffee"

do we want somebody with no manners negotiating our arms treaties????

"Saw Hogan vs. Iron Shiek at '83 Wrestlemania, Failed to Chant "U.S.A.!" With Rest Of Crowd"

do we really want this stuck-up milquetoast to have the job of leading the greatest nation on earth in common purpose????

none of them are facing the flag either. unless theres another one off camera. v. possible.

when i first moved here (late 2004) i used to play a stupid game, because it was pretty weird to me to see so many flags around, where when i was driving through a residential neighbourhood id say "so, what country am i in again?" and then when i spotted a US flag id say 'ooooh right. america!". it was a fast game back then. these days its often a long time between question and answer. anti-patriotic symbolism backlash?? oh noes!

yeah thank god for those flags... otherwise i'd forget!

"Obama: once sold his house... FOR A PROFIT"

do we really want some sleazy operator like this running the world's greatest democracy????

"Obama: may not have given up smoking"

can we trust a word this man says???? do we want the Lincoln bedroom stained with nicotine???

"Obama: skinny"

If the flag isn't 'wearing apparel', isn't Obama technically right about the tie-pin thing? Impeach Bush!

"Obama: had a interesting childhood."

I'm just amazed there's a real site out there called NEWSBUSTERS

let's make a BLOGBUSTERS website
citizen journalism BACKLASSSSSHHHHH

BUSTER BUSTERS
http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/0/X/-/-/-/buster_bluth.jpg

"Obama: employs homophobic gospel singer"

The only argument being made that I can credit as logical and not batshit insane is "political leaders should follow all of the political hoo-haw, ergo Obama should have placed his hand over his heart". I think what people aren't realizing is that not doing so, yet still proclaiming yourself a patriotic member of this country, is a much braver, stronger political stance; it's still just as grandstanding but in a manner completely orthoganol to conventional wisdom on a subject that is ultimately trivial but still requires an amazing set of cajones to pull off. Obama's taking a very risky gamble here in that most people are not smart enough to realize what he's doing; they're going to fixate on the fact that he isn't honoring the flag rather than the fact that he's standing up against an ingrained tradition. I think the more interesting question is, "Is this the ditch you want to die in?" because I think that Obama has no interest in being President of a country that requires its leaders to place their hands over their hearts during the Star-Spangled Banner.

Thank you, HI DERE.

My point is it doesn't matter if he has the cojones - this is something that can't be pulled off. He will die in this ditch. It, frankly, is not a fight worth fighting.

"Is this the ditch you want to die in?"

Dan have you ever considered writing metal lyrics for a living

his hand be over his cojones, ja!

if he had stood with his hands behind him instead of in front, AKA at ease, it would be a nice gesture to the military, since we never put our hands over our hearts (it looks stupid).

Dan are you serious???

and if he spins it right obama could still turn it into a nice gesture to our all-volunteer cannon fodder by pointing out that said perfunctory gesture has been rendered completely and utterly meaningless by the disingenuous grandstanding of our sitting CinC and his terrifying disregard for life

whether anybody who doesn't already agree would understand that, though, is up for debate

whether anybody who doesn't already agree would understand that, though, is up for debate

this is the issue I'm afraid though, the people calling for "decorum" couldn't tell you what parade rest is if they had guns to their heads

those people would never have voted for a democrat either, though

There's no way to tell what the fuck is going on in that picture! Was the National Anthem (and/or Pledge of Allegiance - it's being reported as both in different places) just about to start? Did it just finish? What was even HAPPENING? We have a single Time photo caption to work with, providing vague context.

THIS is the level of scandal these champions are working at?

I would vote for the lady in the blue shirt.

yes, agreed, she has something, some quality that the other candidate doesn't have.

if you want a candidate who is going to do their utmost to make the fewest mistakes, you want Hillary. obama is willing actively court political danger in the course of being himself as a statement of confidence in his ability to gain trust and persuade.

-- gabbneb, Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:41 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

otm

who was the last "competent"/non-shit-starting candidate to get elected? eisenhower?

define "non-shit-starting"

Romney seems like the leading (by a little) business-wing guy, potentially able to take the nom simply by out-fundie-ing Giuliani (not hard, but far from a foregone conclusion), unless by some miracle the fundies and Southerners unite behind Huckabee and he liases with a more business-y candidate (not gonna happen), or Thompson gets behind/with McCain and that somehow doesn't make them both look tired-er. I still wouldn't rule out the possibility of Jeb making a kingmaking move (with Giuliani presumably).

I wouldn't underestimate either Romney or Giuliani. The former may be Dukakis-/wimp-able, but Dukakis was an ethnic dude, and the opposite of Romney on the shame-omoter, and Romney probably looks more like Reagan than Herbert Walker. Giuliani might be a weirdo with great gaffe potential, but up against Hillary it's not going to be a test of who gives you more warm-and-fuzzies, and it's not clear he would lose that battle either. He will be a serious candidate, competitive in states we wouldn't have to worry about otherwise.

I would vote for the lady in the blue shirt.

Only if she removes Giuliani's face from her chest. Immediately. Without hesitation.

hahaha "shame-ometer"

non-shit-starting meaning campaigning as tracy flick instead of honest/slangy/zingy/laid-back/here-to-clean-up-this-mess-from-the-outside mode of g-dub and slick willie and reagan and carter and so on - i guess the answer is hw in 88 and nixon in 72 (but not 68)

I'm no longer willing to pick Romney as more likely than Giuliani, but I do think that Giuliani is going to need something else, possibly engineered by the party/Bushes, to put him over/provide an excuse for his palatability.

Is that Giuliani or Peter Gabriel?

saying nixon was a "non-shit-starter" in '72 is kind of mystifying...?

CREEP, political assassinations of American citizens, Watergate, spying on rock stars, labelling every perceived enemy with a racial epithet etc etc

well he was playing on fears & being reactionary in that extra special nixon way but on this insider protect-the-barracks tip instead of 'let me clean up lbj's mess & end this horrible liberal war' of 68

im talking about the campaign, dumbass... the point of 72 was dependability, competence, realiable governing, not some honest off-the-cuff dude coming in to fix shit

so we're talking strictly media persona here (Nixon didn't have it in him to ever appear laid-back)

yes shakey, that's what campaigns are

nixon won 68 by stealing ideas from wallace, a certified shit-starter

yeah right whatever, Watergate break-in had nothing to do with campaign uh huh

x-post

are you seriously trying to argue that watergate means that nixon was campaigning more like obama than hillary? what the fuck are you even saying?

law & order this, law & order that, he was the daddy-knows-best candidate not the 'washington is bullshit let me fix it with my beautiful idealism' candidate. stop trying to argue with that by inventing your own definitions for words i use & generally being all shakey mo about it

dude relax I was just trying to understand your point

Reagan in '84 was pretty "daddy-knows-best/law and order"

I mean the dynamic you're describing has more to do with which party is the incumbent than anything else

i dunno reagan was always more lazy/slangy/zingy than anybody he ran against

like, yeah he was incumbent but mondale was the square

just like bush in 04... kerry was the actual outsider but bush played that weird reagan 'im just a laid back dude who dont care much for politickin BUT I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN PROTECT YOU' game

Only if she removes Giuliani's face from her chest. Immediately. Without hesitation.

"I'd fuck her with a Bush mask on!"

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2007/10/mob_allowed_giuliani_to_live_w.html

It's like a leather-daddy Woody Allen with Paul Simon's hair.

this has overtaken village voice's 'lisping, vampiric demagogue' as my new favorite giuliani description

jimmy breslin called him "a little man in search of a balcony" which is fucking brilliant

hahahaha that's awesome

beautiful

new yorkers are familiar enough with dude to burn him better than anybody, i hope we hear more great zings during 08

too bad ppl in massachusetts arent as clever

lolz @ "dirty thirty" badge!

of course regular people vote in these things, and the wings have yet to anoint anyone

i'm absolutely terrified by this election, tbh, more than i was in 04.

...which is odd, i know, considering the frontrunners on the GOP side would all be look fatally flawed in their own special way even if the country wasn't absolutely disgusted with the GOP as a whole right now

if you think SNL does satire, here's The Committee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NotN9NbGYNU

(p sure that's Martin Mull 3rd from right)

Wow what a great fucking thread you picked to revive.

this thread is golden

Tom, get help.

if you want a candidate who is going to do their utmost to make the fewest mistakes, you want Hillary. obama is willing actively court political danger in the course of being himself as a statement of confidence in his ability to gain trust and persuade.

-- gabbneb, Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:41 AM (19 minutes ago)

klassik

otm

― deej, Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:06 PM (nine years ago)

if you really love your country maybe the hand should be placed lower

kill Monaco, fuck America, marry Switzerland

--Bob Marley

Totally fucking Mexico.