Is it okay to treat other people exactly the same way they treat you?

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If someone is always making sarcastic jokes about you (for example), is it okay to do exactly the same thing to them, 'point for point'? Could it even help them, by making them understand what it feels like? Could you do this to someone who was annoying you, and not feel guilty about it?

Or should you take some other approach - ie 'do unto your neighbour as you would have them do unto you'?

maryann, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I dutifully entered this thread into the 'ethics' category

maryann, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Doing unto your neighbour as you would have them do unto you is always a big flop, because you can't help seething with resentment.

maryann, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

what matters more:

i. winning an argt in yr head (= ethos)
ii. winning an argt in the room (=tactics)
iii. winning an argt in the world (=strategy)

mark s, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hmmm, I mainly go for the treat people like you would be like to be treated yourself approach. If people want to be sacrcastic about me, or whatever, then that's how they choose to live, I can't be bothered to react.

jel --, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah but there wasn't a 'tactics' category! Ha ha. I think I get what you mean.

maryann, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But Jel - what if it's someone you HAVE to be around all the time, and you've tried being polite and all that? Like, what if your workmate every day said when you walked in, 'Ooh, look, it's Jel, here to tell us all about what us macho jerks are doing wrong,' because you once said that you read the preface to a Germaine Greer book. Or something like that, for example. And there was no way you could escape it. What would you do then?

maryann, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thanks for answering this thread, it's so vague and broad I really don't deserve it.

maryann, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I really don't know...I'd probably be all ennui and store up a load of resentment. It's a horrible situation.

jel --, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i would store up a load of resentment and wait for the day when i could say something REALLY sarcastic about them and then just explode and say it and probably cry and feel bad. or just say something like "do you EVER get tired of making that same old joke?"

katie, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I always find it best to try and "translate" the hurt from emotion terms to physical or intellectual (or financial). If someone is constantly annoying to me I will constantly ask them very difficult brain treasers to anoy them back, or make them sit of drawing pins or make them buy a particularly big round in the pub.

Actually I don't but its a nice idea. I think the moot point in the question is the word "exactly".

Pete, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Okay that's a really good idea! But now I want to start a new thread: is it okay to ask big brain teasers or something like that to get back at someone?

maryann, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Katie - same.

maryann, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If it's something sarcastic and inoffensive as it so often is I'll try and reply with something funny, and maybe start a mini slagging match or something which can be fun. If I'm actually hurt by something I'll either say so or comeback with something equally below the belt and if it's a friend of mine they'll realise. It's bad because if you hit the nail on head with the comeback you seem like a petty humourless prick.

Ronan, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

escalation, not appeasement!

c., Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Massive retaliation to minor insults. Not in any witty sort of way, merely screaming abuse and death threats into the face of you opponent. Great fun at parties.

Matt, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

kill him twice

unknown or illegal user, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

or thrice, even....overreact! take it to heart! lash out ! wallow! appall!

c., Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The correct response to "Ooh, look, it's [xxxx], here to tell us all about what us macho jerks are doing wrong" is "That's what they pay me the big bucks for." Think: judo. If they're trying to get a rise out of you, which in this case they certainly are, then you don't try to push them back with equal force, you use the momentum they've already got to send them flying into the realm of looking really stupid.

Like Kant said, don't just treat others the way you want to be treated: treat others the way you want EVERYONE to treat EVERYONE ELSE. People are very rarely mean to people who are both nice and unflappable.

Douglas, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

help them, by making them understand what it feels like

haha. i used to take this approach and i was very surprised that people didn't appreciate my help! i think douglas is onto something with the "judo" technique. judo, however, takes many months of training to be effective. in the early stages you just fall over a lot. still, better than standing still and waiting for your kicking.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It is better to bow like the reed than break like the bough.

Daver, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You seem to have given insufficient consideration to punching-related approaches.

Martin Skidmore, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This has always been one of the classic moral questions.

'Tit for tat' is the most obvious and most basic strategy to achieve a balance of power between individuals. And it works well in cases where the original wrongdoing was calculated. When you dish it back in kind, it takes all the 'profit' out of acting badly. It returns the calculation back to zeroes. The greatest difficulty here is escalation. Most cold-hearted bastards pick on people with less power to do them harm, giving them the edge in an all-out war.

Next, vengance as a tool of justice has real obvious flaws when it is pursued automatically. That leads to feuding and an endless cycle of getting back at the other guy. This is especially true when the original bad act was not calculated, but reckless, heedless or blindly emotional. Then the only way to break the cycle is to interpose forgiveness, involve an impersonal arbitrator, or just walk away.

On the whole, when people coldly choose to treat you like shit on the assumption they will get what they want and you can't or won't fight back - I say get out the hammer and smash 'em back!

Little Nipper, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i would try the "treat em like you wanna be treated" thing, but it would get really frustrating and then i would get drunk and be so mean to that person so they'd wish they were never born. i don't recommend doing this. if i were a better person, i would have a quiet word to the offender, firmly stating that you are getting fed up with the sarcasm. perhaps they will protest that they don't mean anything by it and you're taking it all too seriously, perhaps they would respect your boundaries. if then they still don't respect your boundaries, then it is alright to do mean things to them so they wish they were never born.

queenoftheharpies, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the trouble with treating people exactly as they treat you is that it ends up being sooo FRUSTRATING esp if they don't get what your doing AND you dont get to use your own brand of NASTIMEANINESS(tm) which you have spent years buiding AND sarcasm is just tooo BITTER and NOT VERY CLEVER. that said bitter people are amusing and i am a MOSTLY NICE person.

ducklingmonster, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have found that if someone is consistently unpleasant, & they get on yr nerves, it's best to just stay the hell out of their way. Why waste your time & mental effort on someone who is a knob? They don't deserve your attention. Furthermore, to use thee ole saw, THEY HAVE TO LIVE W/THEIR REPELLENT PERSONALITY EVERYDAY, YOU DON'T. Now I know this is not always possible, and I would (and have!) use/d the sneakiest sabotage on them if their obnoxious prescence is unavoidable. Best to keep them away from you if you can though, IMO.

Norman Phay, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

yip

ducklingmonster, Monday, 17 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

yeah, but maryann said she can't avoid this person.

queenoftheharpies, Tuesday, 18 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(scans posts) Oh yeah, I missed that bit, sorry. In this case, it's the ultra sneaky sabotage then, isn't it? Maryann I hope this fux0r goes away & stops being such a bloody pest soon.

Norman Phay, Tuesday, 18 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

THEY HAVE TO LIVE W/THEIR REPELLENT PERSONALITY EVERYDAY, YOU DON'T i must remember this next time i am in this situation!

queenoftheharpies, Tuesday, 18 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

fourteen years pass...

deems, would you care to sort this out for us?

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 19:43 (nine years ago)

imo, only mo now, to presume that someone is getting the same outcome (desired or otherwise) from treating you in manner x as you would obtain from treating them in manner x seems to me to be as foolish an understanding of how ppl work as there might be in this strange world.

the above outlook, and its only mo, leads me to think that kant was as full of shit as anyone ever was, amongst other things

loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 22:35 (nine years ago)

ooh there's my "ethos, tactics, strategy" post

mark s, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 22:42 (nine years ago)

i was less full of shit than kant, when i wrote that post

mark s, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 22:43 (nine years ago)

I'm struggling with this at the moment. Dated this girl in the past and we were friends for years afterwards. However, in the last year she started dating seriously and she e-mails me links from work and just wants me to be her penpal - so I think it's fair to cut her off completely. I don't want this arrangement at all so I don't think treating her the same way as she is treating me works. Does that sound fair?

Everything Moves Towards The Sun (Ross), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 22:46 (nine years ago)

serious post: saying everyone has the potential to have a different outcome by treating others in manner x can lead to moral relativism; in the mind of a lunatic, hitting someone or treating someone like crap could potentially not do her/him harm or, worse, the lunatic may think the victim may actually benefit from it

unserious post: a tug for a tug yields other results

F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 22:51 (nine years ago)

saying everyone has the potential to etc is true

where it might lead a lunatic is a funny approach to take tbh

nb no philosophy pls we're only looking for a better wqy to be, none of that extreme example shite thks

loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 22:59 (nine years ago)

i c u follow the philosophy of pragmatism

u can't get away from it dmac

philo is all around us maaannn

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F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 23:10 (nine years ago)

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F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 23:12 (nine years ago)

i like both those

throwing a name on a non philosophy and claiming it is as lame as claiming atheism as a religion rly but im not strong on it or anything

treat ppl however. try to get something out of it.

loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 23:16 (nine years ago)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatism

F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 23:18 (nine years ago)

it's like the same bong from different perspectives, maaan

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 23:20 (nine years ago)

the bongs are covered in infinity

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 23:20 (nine years ago)

it's like an elephant yet we're, like, blind man

all of us

but some of us are, like, touching different parts of the elephants

we can't tell if we're touching the tail or the trunk maaannnn


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F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 23:23 (nine years ago)

three weeks pass...

thats fair

loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Thursday, 5 January 2017 23:25 (nine years ago)


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