World Cup quarter final throwdown (and other simulations)

Still, now you look at the Quarters:

Spain v South Korea Senegal v Turkey Germany v USA England v Brazil

Guess who drew the short straw...

I must confess i have never liked masked superheroes in comics or films. the leopard of lime street was ok, but i was 8 at the time.

Oh and the football...hmmm, two days break will be good.

If we beat brazil then we are in that final. And, you know, if they were as defensive as the '94 team then maybe it wouldn't look so good but they struggled to keep belgium out.

The bloody germans will get into another semi final but I hope USA humiliate them (can you imagine south korea usa semi final).

Senegal Turkey is a hard one to call but I'd say senegal but really have no idea.

Huh! I just posed that thought on the World Cup Last 16 thread. CrAzY.

Seriously, what are Germany still doing here? Don't let them make it to the final for gawds sake (unless, maybe, it's vs England).
Posh Spice is said to have flown a hairdresser out to Japan to tend to Becks' barnet. Quite right, it was looking very lacklustre during the Denmark match, all flat at the back and everything, terrible. I wonder if he'll be given a whole new haircut with which to bamboozle the Brazillians?
It'd work, y'know.

No European nation has ever won the WC when it's been staged outside Europe (though the Dutch should've done in Buenos Aires, '78); Spain are still my bet to put an end to that.

That's exactly what I'm saying! If it wasn't for Holland's arrogance Ireland wouldn't be there at all so be glad you were.

Ah, right. And North Korea in 1966, as well.

So this time we've got four traditional giants (albeit one who never wins anything), and representation from North America, Asia, Africa and a European team who, barely 15 years ago, were prone to losing 8- 0 at home to an England side featuring Tony Woodcock. How far we've come.

But seriously, organization and determination seem to be besting skill more often than not in this Cup -- not just with the upstarts, but England/Sweden > Argentina as well.

The latest Friedel v Keller contretemps was just on the hourly radio news. All four national evening newscasts had prominent stories on the Mexico game (and since when does Dan Rather ever cover any sporting event?), with a lengthy piece on PBS' Newshour. Isn't it time to retire this "America yawns" nonsense? Or do you really expect interest in the sport to go from being the concern of a small but friendly fraction to mass frenzy in six seconds (and in that case, wouldn't the inevitable complaint be about the arrogance and jingoism)?

Duff/keane were the only two quality Irish players. they are 'proper'= they are average. Spirit only goes so far. Even though you beat Italy in a group match it was Italy still reached the final! Go back to your Gaelic football or whatever 'sport' you guys play.

France sent a back line of players over 30 and expected to win the cup again. Glad they fucked off home!

Portugal were losing 3-0 to US at one stage. They deserve to go just for that. I mean, what's the fucking point when you have a youth system, organised leagues, a system and passion for the game when the players produced by the same system are not going to bother against a country that considers american football to be a sport rather than a snoozefest. And Italy should've stuffed Korea, but they just wanted to scrape by. That approach is high risk to say the least.

Benjamin: Yes, more of a lament than anything else. A sigh that this American head-turning is related to a) success and b) an event rather than the sport and will end pretty quickly after the final whistle of the U.S.'s final game (assuming it loses). This is, of course, going to be an evolutionary process. I imagine that when the current wave of soccerphobic media types are replaced that will be a big help. The anti-soccer 'badge of courage' jockthink is odd and archaic.

"Completely against" that "anyone" cares? What does that mean, that no one cares? That's simply not true, as the World Cup means as much to me and to my friends as to anyone else anywhere in the world. So someone cares. And outside of people I know, ratings for the television broadcasts indicate that several million people are watching the games live-- I assume that if they're up at 4:30am to watch the US play, they care.

I get the feeling that for something in America to happen that registers on foreign seismographs, it has to be some sort of star- spangled mass culture showpiece. That's not so. A huge amount of the best parts of American culture happen in the margins, and there's a lot of passion involved in that-- and moreover, the US is so big that a minority pursuit still involves more people than live in, say, Scotland. The present scale-- or not much bigger-- is the level that non-Americans would feel most comfortable with the sport here, and I wonder if the obsession with mass appeal is yet another ploy to be dismissive about soccer in America.

The article gets worse: the author asks his son if the other 10 year olds (who were aware, incidentally, of the results) mercilessly mocked their Portuguese classmate, and seems to think there is something amiss (with America, natch) when he finds that there was no incidents of bullying. Come again?

I'm not going to take the article apart point by point (though Engel divides the average MLS match attendance by half when he puts it "close to 10,000"), but the sneering tone reaches its purest form when he spends the last paragraph in a dizzying non-sequitor about the Bush administration's obsession with Iraq.

Julio, how you got anything out of that article except pity for Matthew Engel's sleep-deprived delirium is beyond me, but really, find better evidence for American apathy about the world cup.

Oh man, if the Fire House proposals ever become a reality...

They'd draw as much the Blackhawks or White Sox in an intimate city setting. (Pilsen or the South Loop??) Yes, this is a massive improvement over 1994. These increments of interest are important but still invite scorn -- Ha, ha there are Americans that don't know what's going on -- without considering how much things have actually changed. This fervor also jumped during one of the biggest stretches of U.S. sports during the year -- even other arguably 'event' sports (on a mass conscious level) such as boxing and tennis and horse racing and golf have had major events in the past two weeks. Hell, I have non-soccer watching friends preparing the sicknotes for Friday to go down to the pub, and not because it's the thing to do. This competition with the world is also starting to get people to understand world football culture -- and that this won't be a linear progression, that a quarterfinal place will always be a good result. Ronan complained in the other post about the Irish fans, but the same happened in the Irish pub in which I watched the Spain game and it was refreshing: understanding degrees of success and being appreciative for the journey and effort, things that aren't part of the American mentality and fuel our exceptionalism regarding the sport, are to be cherished and this is going to have to be learned behaviour by American sports fans if they are going to embrace the sport.

(note Dunkirk spirit).

The more I think about it, the more I realise I'd be mad as hell I were Italian re: the refereeing decisions. I guess the Italians have got a rep now and that means referees don't give them the benefit of the doubt. Also, you just want to punch them when they put their palms together and stuff.

Julio seems to not want to accept what seems a fairly uncontroversial point: that playing well as a team is not just about having 'good spirit'.

''The article gets worse: the author asks his son if the other 10 year olds (who were aware, incidentally, of the results) mercilessly mocked their Portuguese classmate, and seems to think there is something amiss (with America, natch) when he finds that there was no incidents of bullying. Come again?''

He wasn't looking for incidents of bullying but actually just taking the piss. Some friendly jokes. In england when the club football season starts and at the start of the week, it isn't abnormal to actually talk abt the results of matches that happened in the weekend.

Surely if your baseball/basketball team lost badly that would've happened?

But yes, relying on the Guardian (as I'm here in canada, I have been reading the paper online to keep up with the news back home before I go gack) is maybe not best. I had never read the paper before and completely forgotten their attitude towards all things american so yes, you're mostly right. Carry on...

haha google NOW *Perugia's* crack legal team. Watch out anyone who has said their football is better than Italian football.

(Possibly also spot kettle calling pot black ...)

Pretty pathetic stuff. I'm sure Gaucci has checked the small print in the contract (wasn't he on loan?) so Ahn has no grounds to sue, but I certainly hope he lands a place with a UEFA Cup bound side in 2002/3.

Meanwhile, I'm fretting over the whole Mexico '70 business. I'm beginning to imagine a match on Friday morning where Scholes (Alan Ball) hits the bar, Heskey misses a sitter from 10 yards (Jeff Astle), Seaman (Gordon Banks) makes the save of the tournament from Ronaldo (Pele) and Ferdinand (Bobby Moore) halts wave after wave of Brazilian attack, only to lose Ronaldo once as he sets up Rivaldo (Jairzinho) to score the only goal.

And the BBC are showing the whole of that Guadalajara game tonight...

I think Brazil are kinda looking like champs anyway - a bit shaky against Turkey, scoring at will vs China & Costa Rica (and, if you're fortunate enough to be drawn in a group that easy, that's what you should be doing) and a clean sheet against the Belgians when Brazil should've been dead and buried inside an hour. That's WC-winning form, in a funny sort of way. But so is England's progress.

If we are to lose (and I do seem to be mentally preparing myself for this), then I hope we get stuffed in a feast of dazzling attacking skill. Not pens or a dodgy decision, please.

Good omen: I'll be watching it with my Dad; last time I watched an international game on the telly with the old man it was June 2000, a scorchingly hot day and Eng 1-0 Ger in Charleroi.

''Julio seems to not want to accept what seems a fairly uncontroversial point: that playing well as a team is not just about having 'good spirit'.''

So playing well as a team is also abt playng good football as a unit, something which ireland didn't do because they do not have enough quality to do so. spain (like italy against korea) should have taken the irish to the cleaners BUT they got arrogant and ireland didn't take the chance presented to them in the penalty shootout (remember that raul and morientes were taken off and could not take the penalty as a result of that).

I think the Irish played some pretty decent passing football throughout the event; it's true they were outclassed by the Spanish for the entire first half, but Spain might just do that to everyone they meet in this WC.

If I remember correctly, Brazil's defence wasn't too great in 1970 - certainly Felix, the keeper, was a liability. What I meant by 'looking like champs' is that their passage through the event is reminiscent of other not-totally-convincing-but-(ultimately)-better- than-anyone-else WC winners. England similar so far though. Spain and Germany too. God, it's anybody's, isn't it?

In the days before the World Cup started, the Spanish players heroically rescued a puppy that was going to be their dinner from the cooking pot! I wonder if this story will be revived in the run-up to Saturday's match.

Who says the English have bad teeth (ahem)

How the hell have Turkey got into the quarter finals by beating China and Japan and drawing with Costa Rica?

And now they're playing Oasis, fuck that.

The sending off didn't help - the opportunity against Brazil always comes from the tension between the need to be solidly organised and their desire to attack - but down to 10 men and defending a lead, there was no debate or tension for them on that issue.

England's confidence is still very brittle - consistently, they've played very poorly when losing a lead - Sweden was a case in point. They're good when defending a lead and then using that as a springboard to improve on it, but if they're pegged back, they concede momemtum and struggle to regain it.

Bugger and bollocks. Bollocks Bollocks Bollocks Bollocks.

Is it too much to ask that one day, in my lifetime, England might win something -I'll take the European Championship (not greedy, see). I just want to be the happiest little bunny - as happy as my older relatives tell me they were in (groan) 1966. It just want a bit of that.

a) but that victory over Germany was an awful performance, wasn't it?

b) if only we'd gone out as heroically as you imagined;

c) then again, as you say - better to lose fair and square, to a better team performance, than on pens, or the kind of might-have- beens that leave us clutching at straws for the rest of our lives?

The only might-have-been in that game, really, was that Ronaldinho probably didn't deserve to walk.

Hey! - clutching at straws: "if he'd stayed, we would have scored..."

Spain remain my tip to win it - but come on everybody, Senegal would be a fantastic fantasy.

I thought Brazil outclassed us really, but agree that it might have been different. I'm trying to hold on to the fact that, on the day Keegan resigned, I was convinced we wouldn't even qualify for this World Cup. Well done to Brazil, though: they showed an unexpected & impressive capacity to grind out a result.

It's just not the same without the Jones Report.

Mind you this tournament has had some good things for England's future, notably the emergence of Mills and Rio.

and did anyone just hear kerb crawling David Pleat talk about the last gasp hand-job on the line???? tee hee

I'm glad I'm not English, I'd have been disgusted at that. The whole team seemed to shut down and Nicky Butt proved he's not really the player people were saying he'd become. Substitutions made no sense, the midfield was clearly the problem, Owen and Heskey weren't getting any service anyway.

All this talk of the heat and the fitness really is a little odd. I mean, how did Ireland cope so well? Judging from the Spanish game we were superfit. It really puts Roy Keane's complaints into perspective when you see how well prepared we seemed to be.

I don't buy the fitness thing as an excuse, it's another fault really.

Bad luck USA - deserved a lot better I thought.

Sadly I think this nice cup run is going to cement il Bruce in for a tenure of Sir Alfish duration.

So, there is a bright side. Work to be done, but a tournament hardened squad, the youngest in the tournament and the next one to take place in familiar Northern European surroundings.

I do believe I've talked myself into believing we'll win it next time. Yay! for mindless optimism.

It's a shame to go out to such a studpid goal, though.

Glad Turkey progressed (even with my sweepstake team going out). Haha, I've just thought that when Japan lost they must have bowed out. Erm, sorry.

I'm really starting not to care who wins, at the moment I'd rather it was Turkey.

I can honestly say I felt worse seeing the States go out than England; with England it was a slow nagging ache that evaporated on the final whistle (I was almost relieved - I've had butterflies about this match ever since Brazil beat Belgium), with the US I was just furious.

Today was a disaster too; I love the Koreans, but they're not going to stop the German One-Nil Scoreline Generator, are they? I really wanted Spain to win the WC. Has anyone ever seen a spot-kick retaken in a shootout, as Joaquin's should've been? We've been denied Senegal-Brazil, which is a shame, though I imagine Tim H is looking forward to the card-fest that Turkey-Brazil II: Electric Boogaloo which provide. If Hakan Sukur remembers how to be a striker in the next few days they may cause an upset.

Possible (probable) Germany-Brazil final - but have these two most winningest WC teams ever met in the finals?

Is the Brazil- Turkey game a lunchtime one for us? Anyone up for watching it?

Brazil have never met Germany in the World Cup. Astonishing, for the two teams with the most successful track records.

After that he got lots of free replica shirts off the Brazilian FA (he must've flagged Littbarski offside in the dying seconds or something - only joking), which he gave away as prizes in an inter-form five-a-side football competition. I think we (well, me and his son Mark) grew mightily tired of his enthusiasm for all things Brazilian, so were delighted by Rossi's hat-trick the following summer.

Was in Trafalgar Sqyare with 2000 Koreans yesterday - fantastic atmosphere. I think they can do Germany for pace - the Germans are by far the slowest team in the last 4. If they can score first, the Germans will leave gaps and Korea can increase their lead. That's my hope anyway...

It's funny BECAUSE IT'S TRUE.

I bet I'm the only one here to have watch all four quarter finals without sleeping in between. I did crash out at half time in the Turkey-Senegal match, though.

But I didn't and now I want Turkey to ELIMINATE Brazil Rollerball- style and for South Korea to beat Germany with another torrent of dubious decisions.

Actually I'd just like some nice exciting games to finish off and make us forget the rising tide of unsavoriness.

I'm all for this actually - if the game passes without controversy, all the conspiracy theorists will say "Aha - you see, FIFA couldn't fix it THREE games in a row, that would be far too obvious - but I'm not fooled by this supposedly uncontentious 90 minutes of free- flowing football - it's all a smoke screen, etc, etc". I expect a red card for Kahn inside the first five minutes for time-wasting.

It only seems like yesterday.