England v Brazil 1970 - C or D?

Also, taking sides: David Coleman vs. John Motson

I saw bits of the match. Very boring, the pitch looked tiny and the players just seemed to be strolling around.

Classic in comparison to 90% of World Cup matches, dud if compared to, say, Brazil 4 Italy 1 in the final of 1970, and mega dud when compared to Real Madrid vs Eintrich Frankfurt.

Funny that the match contains the second best player ever (Pele), the second best defender ever (Bobby Moore), and the second best goalkeeper (Banks), but not one "greatest" of all time. Except that save. Love that save.

I saw some of it the other day on one of the BBCi channels. It was really weird to watch for someone who doesn't remember much football before 1986. As Jel said, they were just walking about for most of the match. I mean I know it was hot, but this was ridiculous. No one was even tackling or pressing the opposition. It was like 'you have a go at passing it about and have a go attacking and then it's our turn'. When they did break into a jog it was like watching your uncle down the local park. Amazing how the game has chang

(n means chang of chang and eng bunker, the original siamese twins)

well as i said last night wasn't it great to have some football on telly for a change? and seeing England get beaten by Brazil and being reminded that, historically, that's pretty much always been the case - what a great morale-booster for all the England fans out there.

At least we could all see why everyone was so impressed by that Moore tackle on Jairzinho: there weren't many tackles of any kind, and most of the few that were made were hacks. I particularly enjoyed the commentary after Francis Lee kicked Felix in the head - "He had to go for it". I suspect that Gordon Banks getting a good kicking would have received a different reaction.

It was worth watching for The Save and the goal - Tostao's ludicrous dribbling, Pele's control and flicked pass as if he had all the time in the world in a crowded penalty area, and the great finish by still the only man to score in every game of a World Cup Finals.

What was with the pitch looking so tiny? I could understand its apparent narrowness arising from freaky camera positioning (ie low down and relatively far away w/zoom), but it looked really short as well.

Damn! I hope my brother taped this.

I was weird seeing the whole match - you get used to seeing snippets, and rely on others' testimony that it was good, and the players were so great.

Notable points for me were:

1) England were bloody good. Passing, moving, clam, composed (I'm sure heat played a part here) but there was little aimless lumping. Where did it go wrong in the 1970s?

2) Bobby Moore was indeed very good - cool under pressure and excellent timing.

3) Goalies didn't come out of their six-yard box, never mind their area.

4) Pele didn't look that good. Tasty, yes. Rarely gave the ball away, yes. But nothing to justify the near-sacred tones in which he is referred to. I'm not saying he was dud, but that game wasn't a classic for him.

A couple of minor points: David Coleman doesn't speak for about 15 seconds after the 'Jair' goal. How peculiar. For years I've wanted to know what happens at the corner following The Wonder Save - but we still didn't get to see it. Wasted in the few seconds it took to show the (single) replay?

An England side with no Liverpool players and only one from Man Utd - is that correct? Never mind what happened to England in '70s, what the hell happened to Everton in the '70s?

Taped it. Haven't watched it all yet. It is much as I imagined it though. Lovely to see Tag in there.

However, I always get mildy annoyed when The Save is discussed. Why do people always seem to say that Banks was ON THE OTHER SIDE OF HIS GOAL when Pele headed it when he clearly was not? He was facing the ball, in the best possible position to save it i.e. at the post where it was directed. Still, a fairly stunning stop.

Oh, and the goal is still a great one. I liked hearing Tostao talk about it recently - "I saw that I was going to be substituted so I thought 'right, I've got to do something'". If only it were always so easy...

Ricky, I am now thinking that wasn't a football match but a previously unseen episode of the Land of the Giants.

A few points in answer to my own question:

- The 90 minutes flew by.
- I fully agree with d.boyle's first two points.
- I found myself getting irate with bad English plays just as if it had been a live game: "Alan Ball, you useless twat", etc. (Astle did okay actually, aside from that miss)
- I wonder how The Save would be regarded if we'd had the benefit of other angles, and Coleman had not immediately pronounced it as great in his commentary?
I thought Coleman was good, although his staccato commentary in the first 10 minutes ("Moore! .... Mullery! .... Ball! .... Wright! .... Moore! etc.) was a tad irritating.). There were a number of 'Colemanballs to treasure too
- Don Revie was hilarious.
- Overall, great TV I thought, if not the classic match it's supposed to be.

(Revision to my above comment: Emlyn Hughes was actually in the 1970 squad but never got on the field [nor did Nobby Stiles or third- choice keeper Alec Stepney]).

Which was Tommy Wright's club? He was the one guy in the 13 (indeed the 22) I'd forgotten.

Did anyone else my age or thereabouts collect those Esso "silver" "coins" of the 1970 squad? Or, a few years later, those classic Esso FA Cup winners coins?

Tommy Wright played for Everton, if I remember rightly.

I had a collection of those 1970 Esso coins. They weren't quite the squad though - one of those occasions where they needed to make them in advance, so they took a guess and weren't quite right. Don't have them now of course, and can't remember where they were wrong.

dom-who are you presuming is the best player of all time?

I can't believe that no one mentioned *that* tackle by Bobby Moore??

slid in, Pele fell over him and all of a sudden Moore is on his feet with the ball, marvellous.

*pedant alert*

the tackle was on jairzinho.

dom-who are you presuming is the best player of all time?

i'm not dom, obv, but i'm guessing the best player is maradona and the best defender is kaiser beckenbauer. the keeper i'm not so sure about, could it be yashin, dasaiev or schmeichel?

blimey, did I used to ask questions on ILE?

Brasil Kicks Ass :)
***** here's five stars for our 5 world cups...
:) 1970 as far as I know was the best world cup ever...