f-you dockers, I'm never wearing pants again
― big darn deal (Z S), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:33 (fourteen years ago) link
tbf probably the worst dudes are ppl that wear kilts just like, on the street in the city or whatever
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:34 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah i mean ultimately "males" are going to want to get together every so often and do dumb shit. there will probably never be a good name for this.
politics?
― lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:34 (fourteen years ago) link
apparently suits and beards are the new masculinity
― omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:35 (fourteen years ago) link
new punchline:
ILM?
― unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:35 (fourteen years ago) link
lulz yeah
― lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:36 (fourteen years ago) link
not really bothered by kilts, girls are allowed to walk around in skirts so y notprobably wouldn't be friends with a kilter though
― harbl, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:36 (fourteen years ago) link
just don't wear the suit while walking to work
― bnw, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:37 (fourteen years ago) link
probably wouldn't be friends with a kilter though
right, exactly
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:38 (fourteen years ago) link
http://www.goodmenbook.org/thebook.php
this thing is getting a lot of play atm and from an interview i heard w/ the filmmaker/compiler of stories it promises not to dovetail with most of the reductive trad bs above even though the trailer makes it seem like yes it will
― unforgivable Jaqness (tremendoid), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:16 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean for a lot of western men a large part of 'what is it to be a man?' is going to be a reaction to the image/'era' these ads are advancing but even within that orbit there's more interesting questions than whether to wear brut or aramis, how to make a proper toast etc
― unforgivable Jaqness (tremendoid), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:21 (fourteen years ago) link
I think at times the "be a MAN" schtick is kind of useful as a stand-in for "be an ADULT," -- something that's kind of useful in an era of prolonged childhood. I mean it's really fucking lame when it gets used as an excuse for retrograde attitudes or GQ-type marketing bullshit - where being a man is equated to being some kind of all around great guy with a perfect smile and a cool haircut.
But still, sometimes I find it helpful to say to myself "Be a man. Stop whining and pick yourself up," etc. even if that has hints of retrograde gender attitudes.
― Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:28 (fourteen years ago) link
sorry, that was a little redundant
and then u put on yr dockers
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:35 (fourteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p55Hr8nIH_c
― precious presented by oprah and tyler perry based on a novel push b (Tape Store), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:36 (fourteen years ago) link
REAL MEN LOVE JESUS
― lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:43 (fourteen years ago) link
i am so completely blown away by this advertisement that i'm sort of speechless. we've got sexism, heterosexism, classism, reproductive futurism...
thank god i don't buy magazines and don't watch television. think i'd shoot myself.
― And now my dick is where? Oh, this is too rich (the table is the table), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:47 (fourteen years ago) link
Also Dockers mostly just make me think of soft-bellied midwestern IT guys.
― Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:54 (fourteen years ago) link
i also think the "be a man" thing can have value, cuz i think of myself as a man, as a male being. it's part of my identity, and not just physiologically. by that i mean it helps constitute my sense of self. and "to be a man", in my mind, is behave and think in a responsible, compassionate, thoughtful and grown-up manner. in other words, as a positive member of the group i see myself as belonging to. in thinking this way, i don't think i'm in any way associating or aligning myself with retrograde/sexist/paternalist attitudes.
further, though i'm not a parent, i think "be a man" attaches itself to that idea-set. to be a man in this sense is to be a fit parent, partner and member of society. and i think that can be a good thing.
ads are still totally revolting
― a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 06:05 (fourteen years ago) link
to me these ads are just funny
― unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 07:01 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean, i guess offensive in some obvious ways as well, but they're so transparent
i'm not revolted by the sexism & vague homophobia, i'm revolted by the dumb dumb ass
― a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 07:08 (fourteen years ago) link
cuz yeah, it's more like mock sexism anyway
but the DUMB DUMB ASS
― a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 07:09 (fourteen years ago) link
it's slightly less offensive because it's so obviously aimed at guys that are actually pretty insecure, enough so in fact that they will buy a certain brand of khakis to help themselves feel secure in their manhood I guess
also easier to swallow the stupidity of it because of everyone's general reaction here, if yall had responded to this ad by saying "HELL YEAH I'M SICK OF THIS SALAD EATING QUEERS" then I would have been more put off / bewildered / saddened
― lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 07:14 (fourteen years ago) link
― And now my dick is where? Oh, this is too rich (the table is the table), Tuesday, December 8, 2009 9:47 PM Bookmark
http://blogs.graphicdesignforum.com/mlenhart/archives/images/pat_on_the_back_1.jpg
― LA CANCION MAS PRETENCIOSA DEL MUNDO... (The Reverend), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:04 (fourteen years ago) link
That ad makes me want to cut off my own dick.
― Karen Tregaskin, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:05 (fourteen years ago) link
So anyway, these discos where men were stripped of their khakis sound pretty fun
― Dark, promiscuous five-year-old (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:36 (fourteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhZyz0z2tHs
i'm all for this sort of thing, really ^^^^^^
― Karen Tregaskin, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:39 (fourteen years ago) link
http://i45.tinypic.com/s2f7r7.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pNc5ILnrFTI/SQS4_ZJbcnI/AAAAAAAAA3Q/WIuyp4pCPNI/s1600-h/MitchumDeodorant.bmp
― Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:20 (fourteen years ago) link
http://i45.tinypic.com/34h77fa.jpg
― Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:21 (fourteen years ago) link
I...what?
― MPx4A, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:32 (fourteen years ago) link
You don't order it tall, venti, or mocha, like your old lady does.
― kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:34 (fourteen years ago) link
haha i love that starbucks seems to be the #1 foil in these ads
― max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:37 (fourteen years ago) link
the #1 threat to american masculinity... is coffee from seattle
o i see you have a 'tall' coffee there... *derisive snort*
surely ordering a small coffee would make you a small-bladdered commie pinko anyway though
― MPx4A, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:38 (fourteen years ago) link
in my america coffee is weak, feminine and european
― max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:42 (fourteen years ago) link
in my america, when you want to wake up, you shoot someone, and if no ones around, you shoot yourself
― max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:43 (fourteen years ago) link
btw the best part of the dockers ad is the "shop women" punchline
― max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:44 (fourteen years ago) link
You don't order it tall, venti, or mocha, like your old lady does a homo.
― james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:45 (fourteen years ago) link
As if Italian words for coffee aren't masculine.
idk but the point is to feel cool when you buy them
The marketing idea behind Dockers, which made Levi's hundreds of millions of dollars and is probably responsible for the casual-izing of American offices, wasn't about cool or sexy; it was about someone saying "nice pants" and letting your head be full of decisions about stuff more important than clothes. Long article from '97 on how they did it.
― Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:47 (fourteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-anwu6EOjw
Dockers commercial at 1:00.
― Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:51 (fourteen years ago) link
From Gladwell's article linked above:
The one ad in the "Nice Pants" campaign which isn't like the Bugle Boy spots is called "Motorcycle." In it a nice young man happens upon a gleaming Harley on a dark back street of what looks like downtown Manhattan. He strokes the seat and then, unable to contain himself, climbs aboard the bike and bounces up and down, showing off his Dockers (the "product shot") but accidentally breaking a mirror on the handlebar. He looks up. The Harley's owner-a huge, leather-clad biker-is looking down at him. The biker glowers, looking him up and down, and says, "Nice pants." Last shot: the biker rides away, leaving the guy standing on the sidewalk in just his underwear.
What's surprising about this ad is that, unlike "Vive la France" and "Subway Love," it does seem to cross the boundaries of acceptable sex talk. The rules of guy advertising so carefully observed in those spots-the fact that the hero has to be naïve, that he can't be too good-looking, that he can't get the girl, and that he can't be told anything stronger than "Nice pants"-are all, in some sense, reactions to the male fear of appearing too concerned with fashion, of being too pretty, of not being masculine. But what is "Motorcycle"? It's an ad about a sweet-looking guy down in the Village somewhere who loses his pants to a butch-looking biker in leather. "I got so much feedback at the time of 'Well, God, that's kind of gay, don't you think?' " Robert Hanson said. "People were saying, 'This buff guy comes along and he rides off with the guy's pants. I mean, what the hell were they doing?' It came from so many different people within the industry. It came from some of our most conservative retailers. But do you know what? If you put these three spots up-'Vive la France,' 'Subway Love,' and 'Motorcycle'-which one do you think men will talk about ad nauseam? 'Motorcycle.' It's No. 1. It's because he's really cool. He's in a really cool environment, and it's every guy's fantasy to have a really cool, tricked-out fancy motorcycle."
Hanson paused, as if he recognized that what he was saying was quite sensitive. He didn't want to say that men failed to pick up the gay implications of the ad because they're stupid, because they aren't stupid. And he didn't want to sound condescending, because Dockers didn't build a six-hundred-million-dollar business in five years by sounding condescending. All he was trying to do was point out the fundamental exegetical error in calling this a gay ad, because the only way for a Dockers man to be offended by "Motorcycle" would be if he thought about it with a little imagination, if he picked up on some fairly subtle cues, if he integrated an awful lot of detail. In other words, a Dockers man could only be offended if he did precisely what, according to Meyers-Levy, men don't do. It's not a gay ad because it's a guy ad. "The fact is," Hanson said, "that most men's interpretation of that spot is: You know what? Those pants must be really cool, because they prevented him from getting the shit kicked out of him."
― Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:56 (fourteen years ago) link
Maybe they could have conveyed how desirable these jeans are by having the ad end with him getting the shit kicked out of him, but managing to keep his clothes on
― Dark, promiscuous five-year-old (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:03 (fourteen years ago) link
we're not looking at this from the biker's perspective, imo.
― Louis Cll (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:05 (fourteen years ago) link
In this Meat Eating Manly Man worldview, ladies and homos are essentially the same thing.
― she is writing about love (Jenny), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:07 (fourteen years ago) link
wow a lot has changed in male-aimed advertising since that gladwell article!
― max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:10 (fourteen years ago) link
What David Altschiller, at Hill, Holliday/Altschiller, in Manhattan, liked about the spots, for example, was that the hero was naïve: in neither case did he know that he had on nice pants until a gorgeous woman told him so. Naïveté, Altschiller stressed, is critical. Several years ago, he did a spot for Claiborne for Men cologne in which a great-looking guy in a bar, wearing a gorgeous suit, was obsessing neurotically about a beautiful woman at the other end of the room: "I see this woman. She's perfect. She's looking at me. She's smiling. But wait. Is she smiling at me? Or laughing at me? . . . Or looking at someone else?" You'd never do this in an ad for women's cologne. Can you imagine? "I see this guy. He's perfect. Ohmigod. Is he looking at me?" In women's advertising, self-confidence is sexy. But if a man is self-confident-if he knows he is attractive and is beautifully dressed- then he's not a man anymore. He's a fop. He's effeminate. The cologne guy had to be neurotic or the ad wouldn't work. "Men are still abashed about acknowledging that clothing is important," Altschiller said. "Fashion can't be important to me as a man. Even when, in the first commercial, the waiter says 'Nice pants,' it doesn't compute to the guy wearing the nice pants. He's thinking, What do you mean, 'Nice pants'?"
― max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:11 (fourteen years ago) link
It's Time to Wear the Relaxed Fit Pants
― Brad C., Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:13 (fourteen years ago) link
xp take into account that if a guy is dressed magnificently and acts like he knows it, that's not necessarily a hugely attractive trait?
― Louis Cll (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:17 (fourteen years ago) link