Gays and Sports

I've noticed that recently there has been a lot of intersection of the worlds of pro and college sports and LGBT (mostly just gay, really) people and issues. There has been a lot of reporting on some players' or coaches' homophobic comments (Tim Hardaway being the awfulest), which can be attributed to increased attention from the media, but there has also been a trend toward players and teams actively supporting gay causes. Some examples:

- The Chicago Blackhawks' Brent Sopel carried the team's 2010 Stanley Cup in the Chicago Pride parade
- Toronto Maple Leafs Mgr. Brian Burke is outspoken in his support of gay rights, and his late gay son Brendan Burke is now kind of an icon of a gay hockey player.
- SF Giants make an "It Gets Better" video
- Cubs are going to make one
- Red Sox are too
- Ben Cohen leaves rugby to start anti-bullying foundation
- Gareth Thomas comes out
- U of Maryland wrestler Hudson Taylor makes LGBT issues (and feminist ones too, apparently) a pet cause
- Tim Hardaway (of all people) chastises Joakim Noah for saying "fag" (weak, but it's pretty noteworthy considering Hardaway's previous statements re homophobia ("I'm homophobic. I hate gay people.")
- Chicago Cubs' enter a float in the Chicago Gay Pride parade (superstar Ernie Banks rides on it)
- Phoneix Suns President comes out
- Former Villanova basketball player Will Sheridan comes out
- ESPN announcer Jon Miller comes out
- Charles Barkley says some supportive words re gay players
- QB Warren Moon says there were gay players on his team

Straight allies are always great to have, but I particularly love the support from athletes. And of course athletes coming out is pretty sweet, too.

I wonder how long till a famous American pro comes out (before retirement). I can see someone being forced out of the closet, and maybe that could be a catalyst. Gareth Thomas, despite being a masculine dude in a crazy butch sport, isn't on enough Americans' radars to make that much of a difference. I think for a sports figure coming out to matter to Americans, it will have to be either an American football, basketball, or baseball player. Or David Beckham.

So, thoughts? Opinions?

anton hysen becoming the first out active pro footballer

(i do have thoughts and opinions that perhaps have to wait, appropriately enough, until Federer/Nadal is over)

I did due diligence in searching for a thread on the topic. If there is one I didn't find, let me know and I'll post there.

xp - Oh, maybe I should have distinguished between American and the-rest-of-the-world football.

there was a rugby star in Australia, Ian Roberts, who came out in the mid nineties, while he was still playing.

- ESPN announcer Jon Miller comes out

huh when did this happen??

Re Jon Miller http://phillysportsdaily.com/uncategorized/2011/05/17/miller-homosexuality-is-the-new-frontier-in-sports/

I was going to put links to stories about all the items in my list, but I wasn't up for it.

oh ok i thought u were talking about this guy:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Clp2tCbi-9o/RohgmAW58hI/AAAAAAAAAU0/EEs8cXRYoX8/s320/jon+miller.bmp

Forgot about John Amaechi. But he's retired.

And Martina Navratilova, and Billie Jean King.

The story about Amaechi also mentions

Former NFL running back David Kopay came out in 1977; offensive lineman Roy Simmons and defensive lineman Esera Tuaolo came out more recently. Glenn Burke, an outfielder for the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Oakland Athletics in the 1970s, and Billy Bean, a utility player in the 1980s and 1990s, have also come out. Former major-league umpire Dave Pallone has also said he is gay.

xp - Who dat?

jon miller, radio announcer for sf giants games and, until recently, espn sunday night baseball

Oohhh. Yeh, It's actually JoHn Miller. The H is for....nevermind.

lol

oh ok i thought u were talking about this guy:

Yeah me too! Was confused.

lol i googled "jon miller espn gay" and this thread was the third result

Companion thread:
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=53&threadid=50

i'm pretty interested in which sport's culture will allow for a player to come out -- most ppl think that it's hockey, right?

waht?

Why hockey, though? All the Canadians?

ha, i don't know -- i'm just trying to recall things that i've read, maybe i'm wrong

http://www.dailynews.co.zw/sport/36-sports/167-storm-over-bunch-of-gays-in-germanys-team.html

Osang went on to say that Becker put the new adroit, lighter and elegant style of play that has become a trademark of trainer Joachim Löw's players down to their homosexuality, in contrast to the typically more aggressive and offensive German style of past years, but suggested they played too delicately to assure themselves a place in the final.

I'm not sure how many people would have anticipated the overwhelming support hurler Donal Og Cusack received when he came out. A lot of the homophobia in hockey or American football might melt away when an established sportsman who has been winning games and cracking heads with the best of them does the same.

fwiw germany's football team have improved since their started playing in their new effete and unteutonic style

some more encouraging news lately

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/mario-gomez-of-bayern-munich-says-gay-soccer-players-should-come-out-111010

i'm pretty interested in which sport's culture will allow for a player to come out -- most ppl think that it's hockey, right?

J0rdan, that's the impression that I got, too. Re American/Canadian sports, anyway.

right

For no solid reason, I imagine American football to be the last place it would happen.

it's interesting to think about hockey what with all the canadians and euros; seems like a good candidate. otoh canadian youth hockey culture as i understand can be pretty fucked up so idk.

i wouldn't be surprised if it's a basketball player. would be v. surprised if it was a football or baseball player.

I would imagine American baseball would be last.

yup

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/8350779/Steven-Davies-England-cricketer-announces-he-is-gay.html

one thing that might tilt it in football's favor is that there's like 1,500+ nfl players at any given time, so just by sheer numbers...

also i think bcuz football is so physical

"wicketeer"

steven davies is cute!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu :-(

jeez

i think he's still the only one to have come out?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_English_football

I do think it's important to note as far as the "L" of LGBT is concerned, there are lots of out lesbian professional athletes. I recognize that being an out lesbian in sports has less of an impact socially because women's pro sports, unfortunately, are pretty marginalized and everybody thinks women athletes are big dykes anyway as they are engaging in the masculine pursuit of active sporting so it's not like, earth shattering to find out that Muffin Spencer-Devlin is gay.

http://www.lpga.com/content/photos/pp_spencer-devlin_muffin_lg.jpg

But as lesbians were heretofore absent from this conversation, I thought it was reasonable to bring it up.

Or my girl Sheryl Swoopes. <3<3<3

http://dropkicks.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/_2007_12/t1_swoopes2.jpg

It's not earth-shattering as you say but it is disorienting to learn that Muffin Spencer-Devlin is a real name!

- Chicago Cubs' enter a float in the Chicago Gay Pride parade (superstar Ernie Banks rides on it)

this is awesome!

I would imagine American baseball would be last.

Yeah, that would be my impression too (see: recent -- as in two months ago -- conflagration over an Atlanta coach calling a bunch of fans fags and then threatening them with a bat while the team was in SF), but then this news of the Giants (and apparently, a couple other teams!) doing "It Gets Better" has me reconsidering.

As for the NFL, Paul Tagliabue, the league's previous commissioner, has a son who is gay, and Tags was purportedly very supportive of LGTB issues.

Also, Nancy Lieberman, who I think is the first female coach of a men's pro hoops team (and is all heternormative now), was in a relationship with Navratilova back in the day.

How is Nancy Lieberman is heteronormative?

Jenny - I was sort of reading all the support I listed above as being directed toward the G part of LGBT b/c it's been largely men of male sports teams who have been expressing support, but looking them over the list, that's not exactly what they seem to actually saying. Unfortunately, all that support probably doesn't have as much impact on the L and certainly not the T.

Anyway, you are right that I overlooked the lesbians.

Also, I would like to point out that my phrase "Cubs' enter a float" contains a typo.

Because I hate basketball, and women's bball is the most popular women's pro sport (right?), a woman bballer coming out might not make it on my radar.

Oh yeh, uninformed impression is that baseball would be among the first to accept gay players!

a previous thread on this topic, btw: Rolling gays in sport changing things up thread

Oh yeh, uninformed impression is that baseball would be among the first to accept gay players!

― Jesse, Sunday, June 5, 2011 3:44 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

eh baseball teams mostly consist of old-fashioned country boys (many of whom never went to college) and dudes from conservative, catholic, latin american countries.

Oh yeh, uninformed impression is that baseball would be among the first to accept gay players!

― Jesse, Sunday, June 5, 2011 3:44 PM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark

same here - and iirc there was some anonymous poll done a while back asking players from the mlb, nba and nfl if they'd accept a gay teammate, and mlb had the highest percentage of yesses (nfl lowest)

well i'd be happy to be wrong!

eh baseball teams mostly consist of old-fashioned country boys (many of whom never went to college)

I guess that the average elite football/basketball player's college experience probably doesn't involve many experiences/classes that would make them any more pro-gay rights

I'd*

i was surprised that it took until 2011 for it to happen in cricket. i guess as a sport it's kind of structurally/aesthetically old-fashioned and conservative (like baseball?), but it's probably the only professional sport in the UK where most players have a degree.

How is Nancy Lieberman is heteronormative?

My stupid way of saying she's married with kids.

yeah i'm not denying the reality of those kind of thoughts, i think pro journalists shd think for a minute before feeding into them

my thoughts about Hitzlsperger are similar to the others - was aware of him as a decent top flight pro, never noticed him in particular

there's a bit of "quoting sporting honours to demonstrate he's newsworthy in the first place rather than some lower-league nobody whose name would barely get mentioned in the press if not for this" to it

xxxp Surely it just depends how you first heard of the person? I'd never heard of Robbie Rogers until all the press he got when he came out.

One thing that is often said is that coming out while still playing at a high level would not be a problem with fellow pros, but that the negative reaction from (rival?) fans would be the deterrent.

i'm resisting the temptation to do a string of "lower league nobody comes out" in-jokes here which wd amuse the football crowd but not be v. relevant here

One thing that is often said is that coming out while still playing at a high level would not be a problem with fellow pros, but that the negative reaction from (rival?) fans would be the deterrent.

a couple of years ago i took part in a radio documentary about homosexuality in hip-hop and people had much the same conclusions - few artists, esp working in the music industry, are genuinely homophobic, but the fans...

there have been a number of "high profile" (NB: not necessarily outstandingly talented or at the top of their profession) footballers who've made some disgusting homophobic comments in the media in the past - hi John Fashanu! - so i don't think the line that the fans are the only problem is v. convincing. i can happily believe that on the whole footballers are as tolerant as any other random selection of men of their age and class but the inside culture of football is still pretty brutish, esp. in this country, in many many ways

Is the culture of GAA substantially different would you say, Darragh?

well i posted (thought it was to this thread tbh) in the past month about donal og o'cusack to that effect

the culture of gaa is totally different tho, yeah.

Was it donal og came out in the gaa and everyone basically said 'i hear your one of them quares now donal og' 'i am surely' 'well fair play have ye the seond cut got this year yet at all at all?' and that was about it

― Our Deems, of the supposed "rapier" "wit" (darraghmac), Friday, December 20, 2013 11:17 AM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think if you are a kinda anonymous player ie one who is unlikely to be singled out for vitriol at away grounds around the country (unless you do something specific in the particular game you are playing that day) then coming out would indeed likely lead to being singled out for the attention of morons in the crowd from then on. Can see how this would dissuade someone from openly discussing their sexuality.

If you were a superstar or notorious player already well used to be targeted by opposition fans then the level of hostility created by coming out may well be water off a ducks back. Though the fact that the abuse will now be homophobic in nature may make it loads worse for the player to have to put up with, I dunno. For instance if say Joey Barton suddenly announced that he was gay (he isn't afaik) I wonder if his 90 mins playing every other Saturday away from Loftus Rd would feel that differently to him? Or would the nature of the abuse make it feel different? Worse?

Not sure about whether teammates would care or not. Think they're more likely to have the hump about having to answer questions about whether they 'support' the guy who's come out etc than anything else.

Tryina shoe in a Der Hammer gag here but it ain't rly coming

Joey Barton would probably announce he was gay inna Lil B move

They would be upset if they weren't allowed any 'banter' about the subject.
xp

we're talking about a workplace where it's still far from clear how much dodgy language black players are expected to or compelled to laugh off/tolerate so i dunno we're ready for a drum circle acceptance of anybody's sexuality just yet

i mean afair donal og came out at the height of his career, which was p top level

gaa still hugely community/locality based, so your own fans aren't going to make a thing of it any more than they would if a fella down the road came out (the disconnect btwn the players on the pitch and 'a normal person' is a big thing here in terms of 'it's ok to shout obscenities/abuse at this performer')

so there's a thing of locality (and idk but again afaict if you have a player you're stuck with him for his career, def at county level), there's an aspect of 'these guys put in professional level commitment but for all intents and purposes are ordinary' which makes it a lot less 'panto villain' target for abuse, GAA fans are made up of families to a far greater extent that live attendees of soccer matches, and the crowds (ime) sit where they want so there's no pack mentality whatsoever.

plus, yknow, we're eh how to put this, we're not english

tbh the only type of person i might know personally would almost certainly abuse a gay footballer (GAA or sassenach) would be the fellas who played football (GAA or sassenach)

Sporting-wise, he was a very solid, reliable midfielder who could smash the ball immensely hard.

Always kinda liked him. He has retired now (at only 31) so I assume that made it a lot easier for him to come out.

plus, yknow, we're eh how to put this, we're not english

yeah i have to say one of my thoughts about Hitzlsperger's coming out was "this seems like much less of a big deal to many non-English people/nations"

i may be flattering ourselves here but not in terms of 'he's gay oh gawd' but in terms of 'he's gay let's use that to abuse him when we're all drunk in a mob'

struck by an image of yere lads taking on our lads at the boyne, getting boozed up for the battle and ye ganging together and coming at us all green street and our boys fighting over what diarmuid said to sean bridin-maire at the last clan meet

anyway in re hitzlsperger, he was noteworthy for those goals so id say above-average profile certainly

and the other reason i rarely see discussed is: £££££££££

eg tennis has about as gay-friendly a fanbase as any major pro sport can have atm. it's an individual sport so you don't have to worry about teammates. fans generally don't heckle let alone shout abuse. yet no active male tennis pro has ever come out, and a lot of that is due to fear of losing potential endorsements.

King Billy's sexuality has been called into question in the past, interestingly enough (xxxp)

(and I don't just mean on at Celtic Park on a Saturday afternoon)

ha

xxxxxxp Which nations in particular?

xxxp as there are such a huge number of (largely relatively anonymous) professional footballers I would have thought that coming out would only enhance the potential for making £££ for anyone beyond those who already have a huge profile/play for Barca/get FIFA covers etc

idk lex, would there not be positive endorsement opportunities to set that off against perhaps? first thought a gay mate of mine had this morning about endorsements etc was the amount of companies that would piggyback on the 'forward-looking' vibe of sponsorship of a gay footballer

yeah, i would imagine that could be the case, but it's all hypothetical though. and never underestimate just how conservative many companies are - women's tennis, which is pretty much the biggest pro women's sport in the world (apart from maybe golf?) still operates on very basic PRETTIER = MORE MARKETABLE = PRETTIER priorities

The world operates on those priorities, not just women's tennis

Hitzlsperger made 50+ appearances for the German national team and went to at least one World Cup with them, he was a reasonably successful pro and above-average generally but never a household name. He was nicknamed DER HAMMER which is the thing most people remember about him up until now. He wasn't really the sort of player to inspire the hatred of opposing fans, outside parts of Birmingham maybe.

Interesting profile of a trans MMA fighter: http://www.gq.com/entertainment/sports/201401/fallon-fox-transgender-mma-fighter?currentPage=1

College football. That's new territory.

http://www.outsports.com/2014/1/28/5348936/conner-mertens-willamette-football-kicker

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/10/sports/michael-sam-college-football-star-says-he-is-gay-ahead-of-nfl-draft.html
FINALLY
this guy should be drafted this year, curious to see this develop

hey cool

The ugliness that is the NFL

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/02/09/sam-bigotry

'the eagle has landed'

martin rickman ‏@martinrickman 4h

would be great if anonymous nfl gm traveled through time like bill & ted offering thoughts on how big a distraction historical events are

martin rickman ‏@martinrickman 15h

football itself is a distraction so maybe distractions within a distraction result in order and calm

this guy's dad isn't coming out of this that well, huh

At one's most charitable, one could say the guy's life hasn't given him much reason to be happy about anything. Until now, anyway.

even tho we know Rush Lumbago's agenda saying "I thought last week libs said football was deadly and we should ban it!?", there's a point there if someone else was making it.

http://cdn.lgbtqnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Michael-Sam-Mizzou-game-1.jpg

Fans give Michael Sam standing ovation at Missouri basketball game

Jason Collins signs with the Brooklyn Nets, entered tonight's game as NBA's first out-of-the-closet player

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/66080/jason-collins-is-ready-to-play

Derrick Gordon from UMASS bball team:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky7Z35yTFEM

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2014/05/10/saint-louis-rams-michael-sam-nfl-draft-2014/8919045/

Major-league umpire Dale Scott is now the first out active male official in the NBA, NHL, NFL or MLB.

http://www.outsports.com/2014/12/2/7295993/major-league-baseball-umpire-dale-scott-gay-coming-out

so Bruce Jenner transitioning to a woman is innnnteresting. I mean, he was on Wheaties boxes in 1976, and this would not have been comprehended by hardly anyone at that time (or even after Renee Richards).

Not sure this is the most apposite thread tbh

yeah, couldnt find another, so implicitly expanded to LGBT

http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/1/8316867/dalton-maldonado-gay-basketball-kentucky