well there is overkill in the 'the skills gained in the process are not necessary to do the job well' but a 4y degree might not be overkill in a market flooded w/ 4y degrees
― iatee, Monday, 9 April 2012 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
true. as a longer trend (if i had my druthers...) i'd see a (paid-for) two year degree return as the prerequisite to most entry-level positions, and a four year as entry to professional fields.
― fka snush (remy bean), Monday, 9 April 2012 16:45 (twelve years ago) link
the problem is there's not really a way to say 'hey everyone in the country, start hiring 2-year degree people' - as long as there is no drawback to hiring someone w/ the most education possible. there is no central bank to fight credentials inflation.
― iatee, Monday, 9 April 2012 16:58 (twelve years ago) link
no comment. http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-me/it-happened-me-i-was-rejected-food-stamps
― s.clover, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:30 (twelve years ago) link
she hasn't crossed the border of true poverty in the USA, yet. if she does, she'll be in deep, horrified shock at how poor she is.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:35 (twelve years ago) link
well depending on how many student loans she has, she might in some ways be 'more poor' than a lot of 'poor' people
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:37 (twelve years ago) link
it happened me i was rejected food stamps
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:51 (twelve years ago) link
I like how the comments degenerate rapidly into a discussion of the relative merits of various iphone plans and carriers.
― s.clover, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:54 (twelve years ago) link
yeah if you want to make 'don't have a smartphone' a requirement for food stamps that is prob going to affect more people than white hipsters
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:56 (twelve years ago) link
xp
Her article mentions her accountant, and her savings account, and her eating food prepared outside her own kitchen. But the truth is, she should reapply at once, because one of the charming ways our government discourages poor people from seeking government handouts is to reject their applications on any pretext.
I'm not saying she's wrong to expect better, only that she is learning what poverty is like in this country, and it is not easy or pretty, or even-handed. Our safety net is designed to be mean-spirited, close-fisted, punitive and degrading. She's being put in her place for having the gall to ask for help. Soon this treatment at the hands of the government will cease to amaze her.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:02 (twelve years ago) link
yeah and this would be totally lol if she were a hardcore republican or something, but I'm pretty sure she didn't need convincing that this is a shitty country for poor people?
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:05 (twelve years ago) link
it isn't that she needs it, but it is what she's going to get regardless
― Aimless, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:06 (twelve years ago) link
well yeah there's just no need for clover's 'I'm not saying anything but I'm secretly happy that it's hard for a white girl w/ an iphone to get govt benefits of any sort'
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:09 (twelve years ago) link
I didn't say that. Don't be an ass.
― s.clover, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:11 (twelve years ago) link
the way everything in that is phrased, it's not very sympathetic
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:26 (twelve years ago) link
seriously, i feel bad that she has very little money, and i wish her the best in improving her income and caloric intake. happy, cap'n save-a-blogger?
― s.clover, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:38 (twelve years ago) link
yeah if you want to make 'don't have a smartphone' a requirement for food stamps that is prob going to affect more people than white hipsters― iatee, Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:56 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― iatee, Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:56 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
how have old people not figured out yet that plenty of homeless kids have smartphones as their only link to the world outside the underbelly of the overpass
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:41 (twelve years ago) link
sure that just didn't seem like your original tone dude
look these types of articles come off badly because there is some element of 'I'm poor..but I'm college educated but white, so is this okay?' when their argument should really be 'I'm poor, fin'. if she convinced some other poor person to go try and get money for vegetables than yeah, I don't think it matters if the tone of the article is a bit off.
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
Her article does highlight some of the ways in which people in New York city are fucking crazy though. For example, contrary to prevailing standards, $15 for brunch actually is a lot of money!
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:47 (twelve years ago) link
poor people make stupid decisions everywhere in america, like buying cars and houses, it doesn't matter, poor people are still poor
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:49 (twelve years ago) link
if you believe the government should help poor people then the discussion ends there not on how much this girl gets to spend on brunch
I mean I guess it's sort of a sick joke the universe plays on liberal arts grads that THE place to be for low-paying creative industry jobs is also a place that gives you the implied message you should be dressing and eating and living like a rich person, and that you can do so while working in exactly the field you want to work in and pursuing your passion! But still.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:50 (twelve years ago) link
I dunno, that's about what I'd expect from any run of the mill place serving brunch in D/FW. So if you're saying brunch vs. no brunch, yeah, that's a lot of money. But brunch vs. brunch anywhere else, not much difference if any.
I had breakfast at Waffle House and it was $10 w/ tip this morning. Hard to get cheaper than Waffle House before you settle into drive-thru fast food territory.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:51 (twelve years ago) link
― iatee, Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:49 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
In theory, sure, except you're only going to be able to define the threshold of "poor" based on ability to consume, and you can't really do that without examining the consumption.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:52 (twelve years ago) link
had breakfast at Waffle House and it was $10 w/ tip this morning. Hard to get cheaper than Waffle House before you settle into drive-thru fast food territory.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:51 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Wait what if you can't find breakfast for less than $10 you are definitely doing something wrong.
McDonald's bacon egg and cheese combo is over $6 now.
2 eggs, bacon, hash browns and OJ for less than $10 sitting down (with tip) is a unicorn IMO.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:54 (twelve years ago) link
Well then I live down the street from a unicorn.
Also this might seem like splitting hairs, but there's a pretty big difference between $10 including a presumably more than 20% tip, and a $15 check.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:55 (twelve years ago) link
well there are two ways to define poverty, absolute and relative, and most americans are only relatively poor, but you don't even have to 'examine their consumption' you can just draw a line in the sand
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
yeah but that line in the sand has to be based on "enough money to buy x, y and z"
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
no it doesn't, it's a statistic
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:58 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― Euler, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:58 (twelve years ago) link
http://binary-services.sciencedirect.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0165168405003610-si171.gif
IT'S A STATISTIC, QED
― Euler, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
fuck I do not want to get drawn into this btw
― Euler, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 20:00 (twelve years ago) link
are you sure
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 20:00 (twelve years ago) link
"I owed $15 (FIFTEEN DOLLARS) for my meal + tip"
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 20:01 (twelve years ago) link
would also wager that her brunch bacon was better than what I got at Waffle House
ok but iatee by your own definition the girl in that blog post is not poor then so she shouldn't get food stamps end of story
I mean don't you think the current poverty line is too low, and problematically defined?
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 20:01 (twelve years ago) link
yes, and mostly because it uses an absolute measure
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 20:04 (twelve years ago) link
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_m25k309cui1qzsvqyo1_1280.png
hey look almost all americans have almost everything, nobody is poor
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 20:08 (twelve years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/7Umll.png
oh wait nvm
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 20:12 (twelve years ago) link
I don't see brunch on your graph
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 22:05 (twelve years ago) link
yeah okay the thing is very, very few people are in $50,000 of debt because of their brunch addictions, you do not hear people talking about how brunch is on a path to bankrupt the american government. one girl spending $15 on a meal once and feeling guilty about it does not reveal very much about anything. she could have said 'a shirt'.
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 22:18 (twelve years ago) link
like if you want to imagine some perfect poverty case who has never, ever in their entire life spent a dollar on anything frivolous, sure, go for it, but those people do not exist in america. and while euler might be in favor of welfare offices being run by philosopher kings who judge 'merit' on a case by case basis it really is cheaper and easier to just define 'poor' by relative income adjusted for cost of living
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 22:24 (twelve years ago) link
euler have you ever read road to wigan pier?
― Lamp, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 22:33 (twelve years ago) link
well I thought I made clear that I'm not advocating welfare offices actually judging individual cases by merit, and that I agree it should basically be cost-of-living-adjusted relative income, or some threshold based on cost-of-living.
FWIW though I think we as a society need to start to tamp down on the too-widely-held dream of a "cool job," and the idea that you can just do whatever you love and live the lifestyle you want from it. I don't think that a person who is poor as a result of pursuing that dream should be barred from public assistance, but I think we are selling a lot of young people a bill of goods.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 22:35 (twelve years ago) link
the problem isn't the lack of cool jobs the problem is the lack of uncool jobs
― iatee, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 22:37 (twelve years ago) link
'wigan pier' has a lot of faults but i feel like before anyone ever has an opinion about social benefits they should be forced to read it. relevant passage: 'i doubt, however, whether the unemployed would benefit if they learned to spend their money more economically. for its only the fact that they are not economical that keeps their allowances so high... [o]ur unemployment allowances, miserable though they are, are framed to suit a population with very high standards and not much notion of economy. if the unemployed learned to be better managers they would be visibly better off, and i fancy it would not be long before the dole was docked correspondingly.'
― Lamp, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 22:39 (twelve years ago) link
― iatee, Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:37 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I agree, I just don't know if a person trying to make a living from writing for Brokelyn is a result of "the problem" or incidental to it.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 22:50 (twelve years ago) link
'we as a society need to start to tamp down on the too-widely-held dream of a "cool job,"'
I do remember some PSA commercials from childhood exhorting me to become an astronaut, but can't think of a single thing since. all the commercials around now seem to revolve around becoming an electrician or a dental assistant.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
The problem with putting the brakes on the idea of a "cool job" is that you've then forfeited creative pursuits to the wealthy (and, tbh, that's already happened for the most part) and I'm not sure that further dividing opportunities by class is a wonderful thing.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 23:15 (twelve years ago) link