Brave -- Pixar's 2012 release

fwiw, i honestly didn't really read La Luna to be about a "father/son" relationship at all, or at least i didn't read that as being the driving force behind the story.

even this news that "hey princess is just shorthand for bad work" seems sketchy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Princess

Disney Princess is a media franchise owned by The Walt Disney Company. Created by Disney Consumer Products chairman Andy Mooney in the late 1990s, the franchise features a line-up of fictional female heroines who have appeared in various Disney animated feature films.
The ten current members of the franchise are Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Pocahontas, Mulan, Tiana, and Rapunzel.
In July 2013, Mérida from Brave will be joining the line-up.

The Disney Princess franchise has received generally mixed reception from critics and customers. On December 24, 2006, Peggy Orenstein published "What's Wrong With Cinderella?" in The New York Times. In her article, Orenstein discussed her concerns about the effects of princess figures on young girls. Orenstein used the Disney Princesses specifically to present many of her points. Orenstein also noted the pervasive nature of Princess merchandise and that every facet of play has its princess equivalent. Tamara Weston of Time magazine criticized the franchise, referring to the princesses as "damsels in distress" and negative role models for young girls.

Hi, I'm an enormous Pixar fan and da croupier is on point here.

Also? Talking about how these male-led films have a specific FEEL that the first female-led one is missing? There's a limited number of ways to do that and look good, and you're not really hitting any of them imo. I'm not saying it's your only argument, but by itself it's another shitty "lady, if you have to ask".

i think vg's post got straight up ignored in this swordfight so

La Luna has the the qualities that ppl associate with Pixar, because of their shorts - and that is telling stories with imagery over dialogue.

But Pixar movies themselves don't have this quality. Toy Story, Monsters Inc, Cars, Incredibles, are all the same KIND of movie that Brave is. It's just that Brave told the story with a bunch of bears and a princess and that seems to make people clench up way more than a bunch of toys/monsters/superheroes.

It's like Brave wasn't Pixar enough. Which I take to mean that if the princess was a mr potatohead doll this would have all been cool right?

I get it. I just think it's kind of funny and a bit like hairsplitting.

gosh, when a man says it i'm suddenly struck by how true it sounds

also fyi forks, re pixar fan preciousness i'm mostly referring to "shins will your change your life shit" like every moment of these films is carefully calibrated; there's nothing in them that hasn't been considered.

croup do you understand how digital animation/CGI works? there are no accidents. moreso than any other filmic artwork, this stuff is meticulous because IT IS BUILT BY COMPUTERS. so injecting the human into it is the magic trick and that's why it's hard to do it well and why so many studios ***coughcoughdreamworkscoughcough*** do it poorly

xpost "Cars" was terrible on its own merits (animation aside). The NASCAR-stuff and Larry the Cable Guy were just gratuitous hedges/sops. Like, the world of "Cars" didn't even makes sense on its own terms - driverless, autonomous but still functioning cars going to tracks to watch other driverless, autonomous cars race? Going to the movies? Making fart and bathroom jokes?

Basically, want I want to know is: who built the cars? WHO BUILT THE CARS!!?!?

Hopefully they'll delve into that in "Cars 3." I still like the idea of a "Planet of the Apes" scenario, where the humans destroyed the planet and everyone died, and these cars evolved to supplant us. Ergo, "Cars 3" should be about the discovery of the last surviving human, and then go into a bunch of religion/free-will bullshit, who is the driver, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jvqPvDUEW8

anyways, this is on my mind because tomorrow i am finally seeing PADAK the korean take on finding nemo in which the action takes place in a sushi tank and i think this is gonna be MUCH better than brave but if one of the fish is a princess i will report back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIFy35o1Vwg

i mean, if you wanna talk about increasing the stakes

smh at this thread taking off while I'm working! anyway xxxxxp what was the deus ex whiteperson in princess + frog? whiteperson doesn't end up saving her, True Love does.

even this news that "hey princess is just shorthand for bad work" seems sketchy

Not sure why princess = "vapid barbie adventures", or why barbie is any more vapid than a transformer.

did you click that disney princess link upthread and explore the website?
Transformers is vapid too! Who said they weren't?

forks there's a difference between feminist writers critiquing disney's princess culture and guys who think no one appreciations animation like they do using "princess" to mean shitty shit that's shitty

appreciates, rather

xpost Barbie is far worse, because there are body image issues going on, not to mention the blatant materialism/outright sexism of the very scenario. Transformers are toys, too, and designed to sell, but no one would accuse Optimus Prime of setting an unattainable standard for impressionable boys.

idk, i'm still trying to grow my shoulder-mounted rocket launchers.

Hey, you're either born with it or you aren't.

Barbie is far worse, because there are body image issues going on, not to mention the blatant materialism/outright sexism of the very scenario.

Disney Princess dolls are not exactly, uh, body-positive; and at least Barbie has actually been a doctor, astronaut and banker unlike SOME ROYALTY.

Barbie is far worse, because there are body image issues going on, not to mention the blatant materialism/outright sexism of the very scenario. Transformers are toys, too, and designed to sell, but no one would accuse Optimus Prime of setting an unattainable standard for impressionable boys.

Sorry, but I think that's horse shit. The Transformers send out a message that problems should be solved with violence and destruction. And there's a lot of materialism wrapped up in the idea of collecting all of the different action figures.

I'm sure we can agree that mass-marketed, gender-distinguished toys aimed at the lowest common denominator of attention span and leveraged to the freaking hilt by multinational entertainment industry GIANTS are horrible for everyone involved. There's probably even a thread for that, somewhere.

Definitely.

except for sectaurs

And Star Wars.

and stretch armstrong

and the bible

surprised we don't have a thread about BRATZ except for the failed movie but they are kind of the pinnacle of nu-barbie false empowerment niche marketing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjhWo7vduG4

Dolls are doll are dolls. They're all to be collected/bought/sold/marketed. But the Disney princess dolls (do such things exist? probably) are ancillary to the main property, which is the movies. Barbies, on the other hand, start with the dolls. The dolls are the main point. And the dolls themselves are materialistic - dream house, dream car, wardrobe, etc. Just the very existence of Barbie, a picture of Barbie, is innately offensive. But a robot that turns into a dinosaur or a car? Nah. I can't say the Transformers promote violence any more than I'd say Barbie promotes mashing together invisible genitals with Ken.

Bratz promotes an unhealthy ideal head size.

You can't fool me, Stretch Armstrong IS in the Bible. xxxp

But the Disney princess dolls (do such things exist? probably)

Have you been in a store with a toy section? Ever?

But a robot that turns into a dinosaur or a car? Nah. I can't say the Transformers promote violence any more than I'd say Barbie promotes mashing together invisible genitals with Ken.

this is absurd if you've ever seen a transformers cartoon or movie (also many of the toys come with laser guns) but god i would love it if literally all the transformers did was turn into cars and drive around

like if the autobots and decepticons were just rival taxi services

I'll back up again. The movies and comics, the cartoons, they all give you instruction as to what to do with the toys. But the toys themselves, which preceded the movies et al., are mostly spaceman innocent, I think. But the Barbies, even before the indoctrination of movies, books, cartoons, etc, are innately offensive to me.

xpost I swear to god, as a parent of 5.5 year old and 8 year old girls, I haven't stepped foot in so much as a Toys R Us since they were in diapers, and that was always for ... diapers. Actually, I guess that was Babies R Us. Anyway, for all you future parents worried, it's amazingly easy to avoid exposing your kids to a lot of shit. Step one: don't go to toys stores that sell the stuff. Step two: don't buy them shit like Barbies and Transformers or whatever.

i'm completely on board with "mass produced gender stereotype toys are all bullshit" rhetoric, full stop.

what transformers et.al. bring to the table is a continuing universe of sci-fi fan fic and endless comic book ADVENTURES whereas most disney princess stories tend to be about getting married and ruling the kingdom peacefully after your one adventure which is early brainwashing that women get one go at fun but boys can have fun forevvveeerrrrrrrrrr. cars gets sequels, how much you wanna bet we've seen the last of merida?

Like, the Disney princess begin with the movies, so when kids play with the spin-off toys, they largely adhere to the plot of the movies. Which can be problematic, too, but I find it to be less insidious that flight attendant Barbie getting dressed to go clubbing with her buddies.

My wife's mom wanted to promote a healthy and equal view of gender, so she gave her daughters tonka trucks. Which the girls then piloted with Barbies.

Merida is the featured character in the current Disney on Ice tour, so there's that.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/4e1176ea018140950aee88f52ecc3129/tumblr_mhc1rwj3Un1r7cp63o1_500.jpg

My daughter was Merida for Halloween. She was not the only one.

pic is less "princess" and more female protags generally tho

Going back to what jon was saying re: La Luna, I too found it very moving, but it was almost entirely due to the visuals and sound. it was just sumptuous to experience. brave had some of that too, in merida's hair, the blue sprites that made the baby whisper sound, etc. but La Luna was just denser with it.

I do find myself in some of these movies getting almost overwhelmed by their preturnatural beauty. Story almost has nothing to do with it. Factor in looking over and seeing your kid wide-eyed, in awe ...

reddening otm, i guess i should have been more clear that it was the visual aspect that i loved most about La Luna. also, otm, re: how gorgeous Brave could be. the rendering of the fur in the horses and bears was great. even in my least favorite Pixar flicks, they make me really happy to have a big HD screen to watch 'em on.

La Luna definitely was beautiful. The story and the visuals reminded me of Maurice Sendak for some reason.

Even if I've seen a movie a dozen times, looking over and watching my kids see it for the first time is almost better than me seeing it for the first time. My wife has had to explain to them the concept of "tears of happiness." Can only imagine how their rapidly developing brains process these hyper-detailed, neo-realistic movies. It's been really hard explaining CG to them.

"Is Harry Potter flying on a broomstick for real?"

"Well, no."

"So how did they do that?"

"They used computers to make a broom for him to fly on."

"So is he really flying?"

"Well, no, not really. It's just an illusion."

"How about the actor playing Harry Potter? Is he real?"

"He is in this scene, but sometimes he is not."

"How about the actor playing Dobby?"

"There is no actor playing Dobby."

And so on.

one thing i'll say is that i saw the movie in a shitty theater and that the visual nuances were lost as the film was slightly out of focus. i'd probably be a lot more forgiving if i coulda just focused on the pretty pretty hair

meanwhile, in the good(?) news dept: does it seem like pixars writing department have swapped over to work at disney, where they are glitching the disney princess motif with gender bending video game characters and good dialogue and stuff in wreck-it ralph?