itt WOLF HALL the book by hilary mantel and the upcoming hbo/bbc miniseries based on the same

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed

really dug this book, thought there was a thread about it, guess not, anyway, excited for this

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/bbc-hbo-team-wolf-hall-263566

max, Friday, 18 November 2011 16:17 (eight years ago) link

im intrigued, tell me more

the jazz zinger (s1ocki), Friday, 18 November 2011 16:20 (eight years ago) link

The book jacket featured at the link is a total mess.

calumerio, Friday, 18 November 2011 16:26 (eight years ago) link

*loses interest*

the jazz zinger (s1ocki), Friday, 18 November 2011 16:27 (eight years ago) link

really good historical fiction about thomas cromwell

max, Friday, 18 November 2011 16:51 (eight years ago) link

done right would be like the tudors but good

max, Friday, 18 November 2011 16:53 (eight years ago) link

whoa. the book is fantastic (place of greater safety, about the terror in paris, is also good but not nearly as good as wolf hall). i am stoked for the sequel but mantel has been very ill and in and out of hospital for quite some time. i didn't realize it actually had a publication date set.

the main character is a total fantasy - brilliant, world-wise, badass, a family man, and happens to be completely enlightened vis-a-vis the warped values of his society. so this should be huge.

UK cover

Brakhage, Friday, 18 November 2011 18:11 (eight years ago) link

four months pass...

this book kicks ass!

goole, Sunday, 1 April 2012 03:32 (eight years ago) link

man, nothing?

i think the language is really great. really fluid and choppy, and the present tense really jarring; i still am not used to it. the time and scene shifts are very cinematic i think. mantel has a great ear for dialogue.

i looked up most of the principals on wikipedia and now have an idea of who gets the chop. so now the dramatic question as a reader is when the book ends! (is it a spoiler if it happened 500 years ago?)

idk if the main character is a "total fantasy"? i mean the basic details of his climb: "ruffian", soldier, lawyer, trader, adviser, burgess, etc, are all a matter of record. and the early modern/reformation period was full of people with ideas on the "warped values of his society"!

goole, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:28 (eight years ago) link

hey man! knew you would dig this, i dont really have anything smart to say about it, but it ruled

max, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:31 (eight years ago) link

i only know this history in the most basic outline. uhhh, king wants a divorce, break with rome happens, england gets protestantism but not like super-protestantism, and that's it.

yeah i'm really impressed so far!

took me a bit to get used to one of mantel's stylistic choices: unless very obviously noted as someone else, the pronoun "he" is always Thomas Cromwell.

also i'm realizing that knowing this is going to be an HBO joint has put a certain look of things in my mind.

goole, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:42 (eight years ago) link

yeah i had this kind of half-baked notion about the way mantel uses "he" and the rise of the subject, cromwell as first modern man or something, but i dont really remember the book well enough

max, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:48 (eight years ago) link

oh cool

http://www.4thestate.co.uk/2011/11/wolf-hall-sequel-bring-up-bodies-hilary-mantel/

goole, Monday, 16 April 2012 15:10 (eight years ago) link

one month passes...

i thought this was really fun, i liked how unabashed and romantic it was, am not really looking forward to the tv show tho

Lamp, Saturday, 19 May 2012 15:03 (eight years ago) link

Anyone read the sequel yet? I'm waiting on a copy from interlibrary loan.

Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Saturday, 19 May 2012 15:19 (eight years ago) link

im about 30 pages into it and so far it seems very much the same

Lamp, Saturday, 19 May 2012 15:22 (eight years ago) link

oh good, i need to pick that up. i started reading WH all over again, cos it took me a while to adjust to the style and keep everyone straight, there's things i didn't pick up on the first time. the dialogue is so much fun, really tight, really revealing.

his son is such a dunce but so amiable and lovable. everything with mary boleyn is so heartbreaking.

there's something going on about motivation, the intersection of desire, the 'inner life' and ideology at the moment of formation -- all that stuff about protestantism and capital was being made during the course of these events. cromwell doesn't seem to know himself. iirc there are moments where he asks why he's doing all this and he doesn't really know, "what else is there but affairs?"

Lamp what do you mean by "unabashed and romantic"?

goole, Saturday, 19 May 2012 15:54 (eight years ago) link

two weeks pass...

this book is incredible

lag∞n, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 14:12 (seven years ago) link

Am reading A Place of Greater Safety, the schtick is v v similar. Still great.

Jesu swept (ledge), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 14:39 (seven years ago) link

this is a cool way to learn abt history

lag∞n, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 14:40 (seven years ago) link

I held onto this book for about a year from the library but couldn't get past the first page -- not that I outright hated it or anything, more just, "Hm, well, maybe later." Then someone just recalled it from me so...maybe later.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 15:24 (seven years ago) link

I'm actually reading APoGS with a book on the french revolution in the other hand, to clarify as i go. It's not essential but it's a pretty big sweep of history, helps to have a bit of background knowledge. Don't think that was so much of a problem with Wolf Hall, sure I occasionally forgot who was who in the vast cast but the main plot was pretty specific & localised.

Jesu swept (ledge), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 16:10 (seven years ago) link

wikipedia.org

lag∞n, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 16:14 (seven years ago) link

yeah yeah. i wanted more detail. fewer electrons.

Jesu swept (ledge), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 16:16 (seven years ago) link

one month passes...

ok bring up the bodies is in my possession

lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 13:19 (seven years ago) link

gotta finish this

funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Tuesday, 24 July 2012 14:32 (seven years ago) link

i'm waiting for the new one to go into paperback

goole, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 14:34 (seven years ago) link

lagxxn tell me how it is

goole, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 14:34 (seven years ago) link

i wish theyd just put all books in paperback, hardcover is stupid

max, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 14:36 (seven years ago) link

^^^^

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 24 July 2012 14:36 (seven years ago) link

ya i cant recall the last time i bought a hardcover but i could not wait

lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 14:56 (seven years ago) link

hardcovers are awesome yr both dummies

Lamp, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 14:57 (seven years ago) link

but they r so giant and expensive

lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 14:57 (seven years ago) link

impossible to read on the train

max, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 14:58 (seven years ago) link

impossible to read because the words are so hard

lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 14:59 (seven years ago) link

hardcovers are great except when you move house twice in a month

thomp, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:05 (seven years ago) link

Hardcovers are great for architecture, art, and history books. P much useless for contemporary fiction though.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:08 (seven years ago) link

that p much makes no sense

Mr. Que, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:09 (seven years ago) link

i like reading them on the train! paperbacks are too flimsy or perhaps i am just careless and rough but i like the reassuring weight of a hardcover novel in my bag as well, they are less fun to take on planes tho, too big.

i think 'bringing up the bodies' was really good but i always like the parts in stories where the hero has everything going p smoothly and is coming out on top and you can feel the sympathetic flush of success the defining sequence of the book i think is cromwell at home over christmas endlessly cajoling, directing, scheming, joking moving all these people into place with tireless good humor ceding his dead daughters wings to some other little girl, waiting

Lamp, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:10 (seven years ago) link

man i can't wait

goole, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:12 (seven years ago) link

the dialogue is just amazing in the first one. all his conversations with his sweet, dim (but not too dim) son are so funny and awkward

goole, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:14 (seven years ago) link

hardcovers of popular books very cheap thru' Amazon 2nd hand, got almost pristine Wolf Hall recently for <£3, will maybe read it come holiday.

woof, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:14 (seven years ago) link

that p much makes no sense

Why not? I like hardcover books when they have lots of gorgeous pictures to look at and are typically formatted larger, I don't think they are necessary for most fiction. But thats just my personal preference. FWIW, 98% of the fiction I read it in eBook format anyway.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:17 (seven years ago) link

gross

Lamp, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:28 (seven years ago) link

i think 'bringing up the bodies' was really good but i always like the parts in stories where the hero has everything going p smoothly and is coming out on top and you can feel the sympathetic flush of success

― Lamp, Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:10 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol when more and gardiner where simultaneously marginalized i was so happy for him

lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:30 (seven years ago) link

i had a few physical correspondences that i couldn't shake

cromwell: al swearingen
anne: sasha grey
henry: tim tebow (older)

goole, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:31 (seven years ago) link

lmao oh no

lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:32 (seven years ago) link

yeah i know

goole, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:33 (seven years ago) link

ahhhhhhh hahahahaha

max, Tuesday, 24 July 2012 15:37 (seven years ago) link

new one seem to be written in a somewhat simpler lighter mode, maybe to reflect cromwells ascension, or maybe by accident, or maybe im imagining it, anyway im gonna miss this guy when there are no more books left

lag∞n, Monday, 30 July 2012 16:35 (seven years ago) link

March 2020 for real?

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Sunday, 22 December 2019 01:01 (five months ago) link

shut up ... srsly?!

:D

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 22 December 2019 05:10 (five months ago) link

Wooo! Just enough time to reread the first 2.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 22 December 2019 09:15 (five months ago) link

Preordered. US hardcover 784pp, hell yeah

Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Saturday, 28 December 2019 18:33 (four months ago) link

started rereading yesterday in prep. so so good.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 7 January 2020 19:23 (four months ago) link

one month passes...

Read the extract and interview in this weekend's Graun and am properly excited for the next instalment. Contemplating a re-read...

I didn't realise she lived in Budleigh Salterton. I've been there a fair bit in the last few years and I'm gutted I've not seen her - headscarfed, summoning spirits on a windy headland.

Ngolo Cantwell (Chinaski), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 20:28 (three months ago) link

“I do have the sense of it being a very proximate world,” she says. “And sometimes the barrier seems like an enormous stone wall and sometimes it’s just whisper thin. But you can be misunderstood in talking about it. Because none of it can be literal. It’s all just a series of metaphors.”

Also desperate to re-read Beyond Black.

Ngolo Cantwell (Chinaski), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 20:30 (three months ago) link

I just finished Bring Up the Bodies. Not saying anything anyone reading this thread doesn't already know but holy shit she is a great writer.

As someone who has read virtually no contemporary fiction, discovering Mantel and Ferrante over the past year has been truly revelatory.

Anyway, my question is: what other 21st century fiction writers are on Mantel's level?

cwkiii, Friday, 6 March 2020 18:11 (two months ago) link

I’m excited for Tuesday.

college bong rip guy (silby), Friday, 6 March 2020 18:13 (two months ago) link

Anyway, my question is: what other 21st century fiction writers are on Mantel's level?

Peter Carey - try ‘The true history of the Kelly gang’ and ‘A long way from Home’

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 6 March 2020 20:44 (two months ago) link

Thanks! I read Oscar and Lucinda a while back but never dug further.

cwkiii, Friday, 6 March 2020 20:55 (two months ago) link

in terms of literary stature (which is to say lit pages high profile) and skill (which is to say skill but also maybe a bit of scope) i don’t think there’s anyone equal to Mantel. (i wouldn’t personally put carey within a million miles of her)

there are several writers who i like v much out there, and prefer to mantel for my own taste, but they’re doing different things, in a smaller way.

i do find mantel v impressive tho. something slightly alchemical in what she does.

Fizzles, Friday, 6 March 2020 21:06 (two months ago) link

if I read A Place of Greater Safety will I get very weepy about Robespierre

college bong rip guy (silby), Friday, 6 March 2020 21:28 (two months ago) link

yes

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 6 March 2020 21:43 (two months ago) link

worth it tho, so fkn great & brutal

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 6 March 2020 21:43 (two months ago) link

i have Fludd on my shelf to tide me over before the next one, which I'm trying to hold off on but who am I kidding will probably buy next week.

cwkiii, Friday, 6 March 2020 21:49 (two months ago) link

My preorder has been in since it was dated last year

college bong rip guy (silby), Friday, 6 March 2020 22:31 (two months ago) link

I think A Place Of Greater Safety might be even better than Wolf Hall. It hits you with these jarring transitions while Mantel leaves out all the standard establishing shots.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, 6 March 2020 22:42 (two months ago) link

I need to read more of her, only read the two Cromwell books, which I loved. "Alchemical" is a good word for her writing. Like a lot of people I've talked to about her, it me a little while to adjust to her, her style is really specific and can be a bit off-putting at first encounter. But it's one of those things that once it clicks, it's magical.

*took* me

the dialogue is so sharp that it can distract from her scene-setting and description, which is also incredible.

ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Friday, 6 March 2020 23:19 (two months ago) link

my copy is in the mail, let's gooooo

ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Monday, 9 March 2020 18:46 (two months ago) link

if I read A Place of Greater Safety will I get very weepy about Robespierre

As you should.

Load up your rubber wallets (Tom D.), Monday, 9 March 2020 19:15 (two months ago) link

I didn't realise she lived in Budleigh Salterton. I've been there a fair bit in the last few years and I'm gutted I've not seen her - headscarfed, summoning spirits on a windy headland.

I stayed a week there on holiday in the mid-90s, still amused whenever I think of the name, so English.

frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver), Monday, 9 March 2020 19:28 (two months ago) link

copped today, finishing up WH and bodies again, wolf hall is the best novel of the 21st century so far no joke

adam, Tuesday, 10 March 2020 18:57 (two months ago) link

when's the paperback out

conrad, Tuesday, 10 March 2020 19:36 (two months ago) link

two weeks pass...

grateful im not quarantining in the tower

ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Monday, 30 March 2020 19:50 (one month ago) link

No spoilers but Tom Truth's Love poetry is hilarious.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 30 March 2020 21:14 (one month ago) link

you know, i reread the first couple of these in a couple days each and i am just dragging in the third

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Saturday, 4 April 2020 03:58 (one month ago) link

WOW

Just finished

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 4 April 2020 06:47 (one month ago) link

I'm about 2/5 through and I would like to talk about editing. I *think* I'll eventually fall on the side of immersion being everything and who's to say what should and shouldn't be present and the more time I get to spend with this consciousness the better - particularly given, y'know, the end and everything - but I still think it's a conversation to be had. Not that I'd be the one to tell her.

And this is about as tangential as possible, and it might just have been the sun, but reading TMatL today I suddenly got a flashback of Paul Morley's amazing and weird review of Patrick Wolf.

He falls in love with exactly who he wants to fall in love with.
He falls in love. With love, and then what happens, and then who knows.
He falls in.
He falls.
He.

Watch him work, play and etc in a video you might come across. He.

Permits you to watch. He. Studies himself. He. Is assembling himself right in front of you. He. Smashes his way through limited judgements of taste. He. Is detached from everything including detachment. He. Is in rude health. He. Is looking in a mirror. He. Is looking out of a mirror. He. Studies you. He. Is constantly touring. He. Screams lust and heartache into listeners ears. He. May yet shock the masses. He. Has not been brought to your attention by accident.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Sunday, 5 April 2020 21:54 (one month ago) link

i am also about two-fifths of the way through and have opinions, most of which are at least tangent to editing

-- were this not an historical novel you'd immediately go 'oh, you have at least two or three clergymen too many .. and does every noble who's angry at cromwell need to have so many nieces?'
-- a lot of this is putting pieces in play that need to be in play later, though (my grasp on this bit of history being wholly nugatory) a lot of this has only become apparent to me after googling. i made a list of the five or six big things that are going to happen, and how norfolk and the church figures and risley are relevant to them, and reading is a little less stressful now that i'm not going 'why do i need to know who latimer is again' every time that name shows up
-- there's a bit too much of people reminding each other of things they'd know. 'my late cardinal and stephen gardiner, who was his secretary at the time, you remember.' that sort of thing.
-- a few too many reveries, memories, etc in general
-- the first half of wolf hall, where these are a structural device to get through a lack of chronological momentum, works better than the rest of the trilogy (unless it suddenly reaches a new height in the back half of this one.) it felt like it had the benefit of a lot of revision, reworking, thought; the rest of it feels a bit written in public, sometimes the castings back to events of previous volumes do feel like they're grasping for something no longer in the author's reach or remit since published.

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Sunday, 5 April 2020 23:39 (one month ago) link

Jane Seymour’s personality a bit of a casualty to the latter process

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Sunday, 5 April 2020 23:41 (one month ago) link

Yes to most of that - albeit filleting out the 'nieces problem' would take away half of Mantel's fun. (I rambled on somewhere else that she's essentially a misanthrope but also an insatiable gossip - that and her belief in the proximal nature of the spirit world are what drive her as a novelist.) I think the overall issue is momentum: as the books have progressed, the horizon of possibility inevitably shrinks and so the narrative loses its verticality and becomes literally more horizontal. When it was kicking off with the papists in the north, I thought 'finally, some action!' but even this mostly happened off-stage.

I am still thoroughly enjoying myself, though.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Tuesday, 7 April 2020 10:03 (one month ago) link

she’s not interested in battles, she skipped them entirely in place of greater safety

fauci wally (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 7 April 2020 13:14 (one month ago) link

I'm not particularly interested either - it was more a comment on the narrative needing some room to breathe (while being hyper-aware that claustrophobia/immersion is part of the fabric of the series).

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Tuesday, 7 April 2020 16:33 (one month ago) link

I did enjoy, in Greater Safety, that when Danton goes out of Paris on mission he’s just absent from the narrative. or during the .. i forget what it’s called, the night of the seizing of the Tuileries ... the narrative is shut up in a bedroom while people go out and fight on the streets

When it was kicking off with the papists in the north, I thought 'finally, some action!' but even this mostly happened off-stage.

i made a list of six things that had to happen in this book before cromwell’s seizure and execution. the first one was the revolt in the north. the second happened in the following section. at page 569, finally, the third thing is happening. three things, now, have happened.

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 01:08 (one month ago) link

I did enjoy, in Greater Safety, that when Danton goes out of Paris on mission he’s just absent from the narrative. or during the .. i forget what it’s called, the night of the seizing of the Tuileries ... the narrative is shut up in a bedroom while people go out and fight on the streets

When it was kicking off with the papists in the north, I thought 'finally, some action!' but even this mostly happened off-stage.

i made a list of six things that had to happen in this book before cromwell’s seizure and execution. the first one was the revolt in the north. the second happened in the following section. at page 569, finally, the third thing is happening. three things, now, have happened.

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 01:08 (one month ago) link

wish i had this on kindle so i could more easily annotate all the mirrors and lights that show up without diminishing the resale value. it would also have been easier to carry on the plane

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 01:18 (one month ago) link

the title phrase shows up in Cromwell flattering Henry (“the mirror and the light of all other princes”, which I’m sure I’ve heard before, but where) (I was surprised to find out that Mantel didn’t invent Danton’s last words, they seemed so entirely of the version of the character she drew: I guess she started from there and worked backward.)

but the words have shown up in many places before, paired and unpaired. later Cromwell goes riding with his son,

the sun a perfect crimson orb above the line of the downs. The sky has become a mirror, against which the sun moves: light without shadow, like the light at the beginning of the world.

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 01:23 (one month ago) link

-- the visions of the english countryside, often in the imaginations of the characters rather than the diegesis of the novel, a key counterweight to the unremitting claustrophobia
-- the equation of henry's physical body with that of his body as king with that of his country
-- how this fits in with the recurring lollard / lutheran / anglican reassessment of the sacrament, the idea of christ's body in the mass; miirc the catholic answer to 'why doesn't the host taste like human flesh, then' is something like: why do you think your phenomenal perception of the world has any bearing on what the host might be in the noumenal world?

thomas cromwell's double bind in the books is that in trying to intil an anti-transcendental faith in england he gets caught up more and more in a transcendetal idea of kingship, perhaps. i'm not sure how i feel about this, it feels a bit of a glib reduction.

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 01:33 (one month ago) link

(one note i wish i'd taken: when cromwell thinks of st. paul's letter to the corinthians, does he use the word 'mirror'? or 'glass', as in tyndale?)

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 01:35 (one month ago) link

Oh, it's the end of 3.1, leading up to:

Even in the republic of virtue you need a man who will shovel up the shit, and somewhere it is written that Cromwell is his name.

I believe I have caught Mantel in an error, ahem, or she's just using the more familiar version because why not: "through a glass darkly," Cromwell thinks, but this post-dates him; in Tyndale it's "in a glass, even in a dark speaking". Yes, I did look that up.

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 01:41 (one month ago) link

I think that BBC4 are repeating the TV WOLF HALL soon.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:05 (one month ago) link

I have finished. I need to let it settle.

I am glad to be free of Hilary's clutches.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Thursday, 9 April 2020 17:08 (one month ago) link

Until you read them all over again in a blur some fine summer week

silby, Thursday, 9 April 2020 17:37 (one month ago) link

i don’t know ultimately how much of this needed to exist. how much what turns into a blow by blow account could make sense of a career wrecked in the end almost by happenstance. that said the last section, predictably, wrecked me

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Friday, 10 April 2020 07:42 (one month ago) link

and so much ringing the changes on the same organising metaphors: mirrors; lights; books; cats--perhaps Mantel is playing the same kind of game as Javier Marias or, on a very different level, Karl Ove Knausgaard. Or perhaps it's just lazy! I'm honestly not sure.

When the light goes out, so to speak, it's heartbreaking, particularly in the light of the last epigram attached to the text, and the bit of Wyatt serving as an alternative to it, in the last couple of pages.

Anyway. Here's some books and a mirror:

Her visit marks her place in the book of his life -- a book which falls back into loose leaves. Printers can read as if through a mirror. It is their trade. Their fingers are nimble and their eye keen. But examine any book and you will see that some characters are upside down, some transposed.

Later, Cromwell is looking at a history in which the dates for events before Christ's birth are printed, deliberately, upside-down.

And somewhat later, but before everything collapses:

Can you make a new England? You can write a new story. You can write new texts and destroy the old ones, set the torn leaves of Duns Scotus sailing about the quadrangles, and place the gospels in every church. You can write on England, but what was written before keeps showing through, inscribed on the rocks and carried on floodwater, surfacing from the deep cold wells. It's not just the saints and martyrs who claim the country, it's those who came before them: the dwarves dug into ditches, the sprites who sing on the breeze, the demons bricked into culverts and buried under bridges; the bones under your floor. You cannot tax them or count them. They have lasted ten thousand years and ten thousand before that. They are not easily dispossessed by farmers with fresh leases and law clerks who adduce proof of title. They bubble out of the ground, wear away the shoreline, sow weeds among the crops and erode the workings of mines.

And later:

The king wonders aloud, what shall we do when knights of the Garter are found to be traitors--men like Nicholas Carew? Certainly their names should be stricken from the volumes that contain the history of the order. But will that not mar the beauty of the pages?

The decision is that the disgraced name should remain. But the words 'VAH! PRODITUR' should be written in the margin, so the man is branded for ever.

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Friday, 10 April 2020 08:04 (one month ago) link

The end very much wrecked me, too - proper heaving sobs. I'm a sentimental fucker and these are tough times but still.

Agreed on the metaphors. I feel like I'm missing something with the cat in the tree and the leopard.

Also, give me five minutes in a room with Gardiner. Just five.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 10 April 2020 09:00 (one month ago) link

i tried to watch the series and i couldn't get over my immediate conception that the director had 'the thick of it' in the back of their head throughout

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Saturday, 11 April 2020 00:37 (one month ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.