ILX Dangling Modifier Watch

"Whether it's his deep, soulful voice, his South Carolina accent or his philosophy on life, Josh Turner is a singer-songwriter that continues to turn heads and perk up ears in the country music industry and beyond."

what is a dangling modifier watch? tripohpillias?

I am not 100% convinced that's a dangling modifier but there is certainly "that"/"who" confusion

I cannot prove that I read this

Yeah, I'm not convinced we have a dangler in that sentence.

“ Walking down Main Street, the trees were beautiful. ”
“ Reaching the station, the sun came out. ”

From an article today on a murder-suicide shooting in Chardon, OH: "Chardon police responded at 9:36 a.m. to Cooke's Complete Service Center in Chardon with the reports of a murder-suicide. Two victims, a husband and wife who were going through a divorce, were found outside the building upon their arrival."

I don't see what's wrong.

The first sentence is odd. Even allowing "responded" to mean something like "travelled in response" (maybe this is a US thing?), you've got "with the reports of the murder-suicide" dangling there at the end. Maybe "following" instead of "with the"?

dangling modifiers cannot exist according to Stephen Hawking

lol I don't think I even read the first sentence tbh

I've only just noticed what's wrong with the second.

oh haha me too

Those are adverbial prepositional phrases. They're fine. How the hell do you think people are supposed to play Clue? And using "responded" as intransitive is normal in crime reporting.

Are you talking about "upon their arrival"? I don't see the problem with that, either.

Or is it the victim part? Because one of them isn't a victim? But I definitely have no problem with that "their."

"upon their arrival" is unclear because the natural antecedent for "their" in that sentence is "two victims"

I assumed phil was referring to "their" being ambiguous, right? But it's kind of obvious semantically that it means the police, not the victims.

xpost

I mean natural antecedents are all very well, but there's also common sense.

You could move "upon their arrival" to the start of the sentence and there would be no confusion that it's the police who did the arriving.

the only issue with "upon their arrival" is that you could read it as upon the victims' arrival, which makes no sense, but it's clear from context that it is the police's arrival. The only thing "wrong" is the extraneous "the" preceding reports, imo.

That "their" is clear enough. The other two people are dead, so they can't arrive.

Yeah, the "the" before reports is the only weird part. This is perfectly functional reporting.

grammer in general is from hell

yea i mean it's obvious from context but it could be more lucid.

I still can't follow the "with the reports of a murder-suicide" bit at all. It reads to me like "the police responded not with good old-fashioned policing procedures but with THE REPORTS OF A MURDER-SUICIDE.

"Upon their arrival, police found two victims, a husband and wife . . ." avoids any ambiguity at all. Which should be the goal of reporting, presumably.

Maybe "with" means something different in America.

It means "apple" iirc

it would be "better" if instead of "with" they'd used "after," because it could be read as the cops showed up at the exact same time as the deaths were reported, but basically This is perfectly functional reporting.

Yeah, that's a good point about the with. They responded to reports, not with them, although I hear that kind of "with" on cable news sometimes.

grammer in general is from hell

― The Cheerfull Turtle (Latham Green), Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:48 PM

the first sentence is a train wreck, it should be something like

Chardon police responded at 9:36 a.m. to reports of a murder-suicide at Cooke's Complete Service Center in Chardon.

the second sentence is fucked cuz, taken in isolation, it suggests that the victims were found outside the building on their (the victims') arrival. still don't get what's wrong with the thing about josh turner, other than the that/who confusion.

obviously the writer is no Henry K. Lee, but I think it's fine.

Oh wait no. "To" would be bad. That's funny! I never noticed that about "with." It's just this reportese way of making sense of all those prepositional phrases. I think it's cool.

Two victims, a husband and wife who were going through a divorce, were found outside the building upon their arrival."

Conceivably, they weren't part of the murder-suicide, just poor lovelorn victims of a cruel world. At least they were found when they arrived.

Man, contendo, English isn't logical like that. DJP's sentence is better.

Henry K. Lee is cool, too. Some guy wrote a song about him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO_yqNf5vL0

to reports of a murder-suicide at Cooke's Complete Service Center in Chardon.

Very little more complete than death. Good work, guys.

Fwiw, I'd correct the Josh Turner sentence as so:

"Whether it's because of his deep soulful voice, his South Carolina accent, or his philosophy on life, Josh Turner is a singer-songwriter who continues to turn heads and perk up ears in the country music industry and beyond."

So this is some kind of crime reportese grammar that wouldn't be acceptable in other contexts? Interesting. It seems so wrong to me I can't even imagine hearing it, except maybe with an awkward pause before the "with" where the speaker realised they'd got their sentence in a tangle.

Man, contendo, English isn't logical like that. DJP's sentence is better.

i just meant that there really is a dangling modifier in the second sentence of the report phil d. quoted, so it satisfies the thread's demand. dangling modifiers don't usually impede sense too much. the objection is usually more a product of fussy prescriptivism than an honest insistence on clarity in writing.

agree that the first sentence is awkward and that DJP's rewrite improves it.

why they always hafta have some Molly with a uke sittin there yellin along

"sitting with a uke, singing off key "

I think it's cool that I've heard that "with reports of" phrase many times on tv and never noticed it. It sounds natural when you hear it.

well, with can mean "at the same time as"

"with reports of excavation, sitting on a house, in a fast fascination to me."

So this is some kind of crime reportese grammar that wouldn't be acceptable in other contexts? Interesting. It seems so wrong to me I can't even imagine hearing it, except maybe with an awkward pause before the "with" where the speaker realised they'd got their sentence in a tangle.

― Alba, Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:58 PM (1 minute ago)

no, there's no sense in which that first sentence is acceptable. the use of "with" alone should have been enough to send it back for a rewrite. "Chardon police responded at 9:36 a.m. to reports of a murder-suicide at Cooke's Complete Service Center."

Tbf, we've probably spent more time thinking about that sentence than the writer took writing it.

"with" is okay if it's being used to mean "in conjunction with" or "in light of". for instance: "with reports of record droughts in the midwest, it might not be the best time for that oklahoma vacation you've been planning." but slipping to the point where "with" starts to mean "in response to" is just unacceptable. imo.

laisser vos commentaires stupides dans votre poche

the use of "with" alone should have been enough to send it back for a rewrite. "Chardon police responded at 9:36 a.m. to reports of a murder-suicide at Cooke's Complete Service Center."

Yes, that makes senses, although I accept that "responded" in this context might be meant to carry the meaning of travelling to the scene, in which case this rewrite loses that aspect of it – they could have just responded by saying "ah, sorry, we're a bit busy, byeee!!"

Err, sense, not senses, y'know.

poche this, green

xp: true, but in general Americanese it's accepted that a police response means that the police showed up; usually there's clarification that a statement is being made if they're just going to go "ooh that sucks, looks like it hurt really bad too *shakes head solemnly*"

All hail contenderizer's rewrite then.

I feel like the writer balked at using 'to' twice in the sentence and ended up with 'with' when obv contenderizer 'to' and 'at' are more elegant.

poche this, green

The verb is empocher

dangling French pocky!!

All hail contenderizer's rewrite then.

― Alba, Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:16 PM (11 minutes ago)

I feel like the writer balked at using 'to' twice in the sentence and ended up with 'with' when obv contenderizer 'to' and 'at' are more elegant.

― sive gallus et mulier (Michael White), Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:17 PM (11 minutes ago)

is DJP's rewrite, i's just quoting

At 9:36 a.m., Chardon police responded to reports of a murder-suicide at Cooke's Complete Service Center. Outside the building, they found two victims, a husband and wife who had been going through a divorce.

before they were shot by one of them

a husband and wife who had been going through no longer needed a divorce.

I'd throw Two bodies were found outside the building, a husband and wife who had been going through a divorce out there as a possibility, too

basically there are a bunch of ways those two sentences could have been written and the author chose two of the worst options

the original was "were going through a divorce" - what is the most tasteful way of phrasing that, considering they're both dead now

had been going through a divorce?

as you said

still don't get what's wrong with the thing about josh turner, other than the that/who confusion.

"Whether it's his deep, soulful voice, his South Carolina accent or his philosophy on life" is not properly linked to anything in "Josh Turner is a singer-songwriter that continues to turn heads and perk up ears in the country music industry and beyond" as far as I can tell.

maybe it's not a dangling modifier. I feel like they should have said something like "Whether it's for his deep, soulful voice, his South Carolina accent or his philosophy on life"

either way, my thread is a failure

no one has image bombed it with pics of deformed or decorated testicles

Or even dangling ones.

this is NOT the modified danglers thread xp