unrequited love

i once spent the better part of six months completely infatuated with a friend in university. shortly thereafter, we actually got together. i remember being stunned after our first kiss not because it was the realization of months of pining, but because i couldn't get over what a horrendous kisser she was!

it was the one and only time we had contact. once i actually had her, i realized that, secretly, i was never really interested.

so why did you think you had emotions for her? does everyone need a muse?

i had emotions for her because she was a good candidate/rough outline of the type of person i thought i desperately needed in my life -> my infatuations picked up from there and i subsconsciously extrapolated her into a hyper-idealized crush. conversely, because i had no grasp on my own agency in literally creating her, the crush felt so strong and so imposing that i feebly identified it as the beginnings of love.

actually, physically *being* with her forced me back into the reality of who she was (nothing bad, just nowhere near what i'd envisioned) and the crush burst like a bubble.

i don't know if everyone needs a muse. the fact that i did this probably speaks more about where i was at emotionally at the time rather than to some overarching need to constantly desire someone..

No. I'd go with following through on why you have these feelings of intensity. They must fulfil some purpose for you.

is it ever worth wrecking 5 lives to maybe satisfy 1?

no, never. but I think I can understand the urge to now.

Obviously this is bad, for 2 reasons at the very least (friend wld go apeshit possibly, and well - I'm happily taken. WHich is why this is horribly confusing).

Yes I know I'm not properly logged out.

My head's a mess.

This one.

What a sorry state of affairs.

I am 20 and in university (college). Will I get over it?

Yes, almost certainly.

What is it about it that makes me feel so insignificant.

And when will I stop being chaste/disinterested whenever I get any kind of preposition from someone else?

preposition

roffle

You can tell I study German

Fuck the next person who makes such an offer, you'll feel much better.

Truth bomb

Hmmmmm. That never worked for me. Maybe it's a guy thing. I guess it couldn't hurt to try.

Not necessarily. And it may make things a whole lot worse for the other person.

It will go away on its own. I would best reccomend overexposure to the object of your affections until you realise all of their faults and get completely sick of them. Then you'll move on of your own accord.

And that WON'T make things a lot worse for the other person?!

When I was 20 I was all about the unrequited crushes and it was horrible. I'm sorry you're going through this. One q, are you certain it's unrequited?

No, I meant worse for the 3rd party that he fucks to get over the unrequired object.

Anyway, it's all rubbish and deeply painful, but it will go away eventually. Or at least hurt a lot less.

Now I'm going back to googling for photos of Nigel Havers in cricket gear.

I'd kind of assumed the 3rd party was likely to be a stranger, my bad if not true.

I would best reccomend overexposure to the object of your affections until you realise all of their faults and get completely sick of them. Then you'll move on of your own accord.

i do not know anyone who has found "respecting women" to be an impediment to getting laid

what im saying is dudes need to approach women more, they are not that scary.

i don't disagree, oscar. however:

using a book that self-promotes as 'using the secret language of pickup artists' for the purposes of sexual seduction is kind of definitionally exploitative, if not close to borderline sociopathic.

haha " i meant that in jest, but what i meant is "respecting women" for many of these passive types means not making sexual advances or being roundabout about it, or exhibiting shy, passive aggressive/ manipulative behavior that really screams "i want you to have sex with me ! but i am gonna be a "nice guy" about it, which is really just an act of insecurity and manipulation that ends up disrespecting women.

using a book that self-promotes as 'using the secret language of pickup artists' for the purposes of sexual seduction is kind of definitionally exploitative, if not close to borderline sociopathic.

agreed.

ahh, otcha.

I agree with the idea that not making a move certainly != "respecting women", and that dudes need to approach women more. However, I think striking a balance between "sensitive dude" and "game-playing asshole" is harder than it sounds -- especially if what you're looking for is love, rather than just sex.

(Hell, it's hard enough when you are just looking for sex -- it's tricky to behave with decency and respect and kindness, but without getting sucked into a relationship you don't really want to have. No one really wants to be accused of using someone, but that "in-between" territory is remarkably hard to carve out.)

Part of the problem is that the guys who are best are playing the game are usually the ones who don't really give a shit about the women they're pursuing -- or perhaps more accurately, aren't really attached to them as individuals. It's a lot easier to be smooth and self-confident if you don't really care, if the person herself doesn't matter to you in any significant way. That's fine for getting laid, but I suspect it isn't a great basis on which to build a love-relationship.

So basically, the issues involved in trying to get laid are mostly-not-the-same as the issues involved in trying to get something going with someone with whom you'd like to have something more.

So basically, the issues involved in trying to get laid are mostly-not-the-same as the issues involved in trying to get something going with someone with whom you'd like to have something more.

I agree with this to a certain degree, but this is a thread on unrequited love, right ? Meaning what you said about "getting something going that might turn into something" would require SOMEONE to make an advance. My point is whether you want to get laid or you want to fall in love, or you want to have a short affair, whatever the case may be, you have to approach. That's it, no bones about it. Hey, I wish more women would approach men sure, but right now for the most part women they DON'T. So what am I gonna do about it ? Sit around and read 19th century poets, while i pine in the distance ? This mentality is coo if you are in high school, but after a while it can be a tad pathetic, no ?

yes, but (to play devil's advocate) at least it only fucks up one person, instead of two.

i think many men face conflict between the traditional, antique, etiquette-bound idealized love myths of classical film, antique television, shavian and shakespearean romance, etc. that are beloved as art, and vocally, by many women, and hypersexual, braggart and braggadocio hook-up dude disposable culture maxim or the game nonsense favored as part of 'guy' culture. in the sense that one image is wussy but largely conscionable, and the other is acceptably manly but assholish, there is really no 'right' model for behavior. whenever one draws close to either pole, one is chided for unseemly behavior.

since guys who follow 'the game' type shit tend nearly universally to be aggro, and guys who follow romantic models largely passive, there is an obvious opportunity for posturing and bullying -- which leads to deepening feelings of romantic inadequacy on behalf of the more passive men. moreover, i think the bullying is not limited strictly to men.

-- remy bean, Tuesday, August 12, 2008 4:59 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

God, I don't even know what to make of this. This is brilliant stuff. I can't even read the rest of the thread after that. Well done, remy.

xpost haha remy, that is funny logic. i would counter with this;

I see it all perfectly; there are two possible situations - one can either do this or that. My honest opinion and my friendly advice is this: do it or do not do it - you will regret both.

Soren Kierkegaard

xxpost also to be serious, approaching a girl is not going to fuck her up, she can take it. that is if she is a sane rational woman, the kind anyone would want in the first place. (hopefully)

My point is whether you want to get laid or you want to fall in love, or you want to have a short affair, whatever the case may be, you have to approach. That's it, no bones about it.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you, really! But I also don't think that's what at issue, exactly.

I think part of the problem is that...how to phrase this...women often make a point of not putting themselves in situations in which a guy could comfortably make a move, if they don't like the guy. I've noticed that serendipitous situations crop up a hell of a lot more with women who reciprocate my interest.

Of course, some of that's a no-brainer -- almost everyone makes themselves more available to people they're interested in, right? And I'm sure more than one woman reading this thread can probably think of a time that she consciously avoided being alone with a guy who clearly liked her, but whom she didn't like back.

But I sometimes wonder whether we overlook stuff like this when we tell quote-unquote sensitive guys to "man up" or whatever. I mean, I think aggro guys, or at least guys who play the game, sometimes get laid by basically ignoring a woman's body language and just persisting until she gives in -- treading that fine line between coaxing and coercion -- whereas a "sensitive" guy will read that she's not open to it, and will back off, maybe too soon.

Why those tactics work, and how they serve both parties involved, is a topic for an entirely different thread, of course...

xpost

I don't think there's really any danger that it'll fuck a girl up, unless she was raised in a convent or something. I think the worry is more that it might fuck up a friendship (if you're friends), or it might meet with a scathing putdown or lead to unpleasant gossip.

That's something, by the way, I've never understood -- why some women get so, for want of a better word, offended when the "wrong" guy, i.e. someone unattractive or otherwise unworthy, approaches them. I acknowledge that women have to deal with shitloads of unwanted attention, plus the whole burden of feeling guilty about saying "no", and so forth. But there's usually no need to burn the guy, or to talk shit about him behind his back. I've never really been on the receiving end of that, thankfully, but I've seen it happen more than a few times, and it just seems so wantonly cruel to me.

I don't think there's really any danger that it'll fuck a girl up, unless she was raised in a convent or something. I think the worry is more that it might fuck up a friendship (if you're friends), or it might meet with a scathing putdown or lead to unpleasant gossip.

That's something, by the way, I've never understood -- why some women get so, for want of a better word, offended when the "wrong" guy, i.e. someone unattractive or otherwise unworthy, approaches them. I acknowledge that women have to deal with shitloads of unwanted attention, plus the whole burden of feeling guilty about saying "no", and so forth. But there's usually no need to burn the guy, or to talk shit about him behind his back. I've never really been on the receiving end of that, thankfully, but I've seen it happen more than a few times, and it just seems so wantonly cruel to me.

I agree that making an advance on a "friend" can lead to unpleasantness or whatnot which is why if I like a girl, I express it. Doesn't have to be some overt standing on the top of the mountain statement, just enough to where she knows I don't "just want to be friends", if she reciprocates, awesome, if she doesn't, I move on. I think that's why unrequited love for the most part is kinda dud, it just shows a lack of initiative. Also, if a guy is friends with a girl and then waits around for months, even years, to make this grand statement, i mean cmon, does this usually work out ? I'm sure it has, and can, but overall it just doesn't, why ? Because by that time girl or guy no longer views that person in that way and simply can't, even if they wanted to.

My girlfriend is a good example of this kinda situation exactly. She had a guy friend who she had known for years, this was before I met her. They got along fine, I met her, and then we got together and her guy friend continued to be around as usual. I had no problem with him whatsoever, then like 2 years into our relationship he drops a bomb on her. Says that he loved her, always had etc. Even though my gf was shocked she was still nice to him, because that's just how she is. Eventually he got mad when she didn't reciprocate this grand love for him and told him she was happy in our relationship. What did it reveal about him ? That this guy was ultimately a spineless, passive aggressive , manipulative dude who all of a sudden decides to make a move. Let's just say my gf eventually ended their friendship, because she realized he had been for his all his "nice guy" mask really just a fraud. Someone who didn't know himself, esteem himself enough to just make a simple statement of intent towards her, when he might have a had a chance, early on in their contact. That's why I say, make your move and make it early to avoid unpleasantness to all parties involved.

And to what you said about women getting offended if the "wrong guy" approaches them, sure it happens and it is FUCKED. However, it doesn't happen as often as you would think and even if it does,(as long as the guy doesn't come off like some crazy creep) would you even want to date a girl who is going to make backstabbing comments about you just because you expressed a smattering of interest ? I think not.

That's something, by the way, I've never understood -- why some women get so, for want of a better word, offended when the "wrong" guy, i.e. someone unattractive or otherwise unworthy, approaches them. I acknowledge that women have to deal with shitloads of unwanted attention, plus the whole burden of feeling guilty about saying "no", and so forth. But there's usually no need to burn the guy, or to talk shit about him behind his back.

Are you honestly suggesting this does not happen in the reverse, as well? Because I can assure you it fucking does, and it hurts us just as much, and girls can be just as unforthcoming about approaching guys, and only crush from afar, and be humiliated when the guy says no and then makes a joke about it to his mates.

I'm not entirely speaking from my own experience here, but I've also watched other female friends suffer tremendously with this. And, I have sen plenty of guys make anime-eyes and be compeltely smooshy and hopeless over women they cant have. Such stereotyping going on here!

I agree, Trayce, it definitely happens both ways. And either guy or girl that acts in that way is not worth anyone's time anyways.

Pretty much everything you say is OTM, and is stuff that I learned to do a lot more of, once I hit my mid-twenties or so. (I'm in a happy couple now, so all this stuff is currently a non-issue for me.)

I think a lot of the angsty, inhibited stuff happens when both people are in the same circle of friends, same classes, same workplace, etc., and have to see each other all the time. I suspect a lot of long-term lonelyhearts are in that kind of situation, where there really can be a cost if you say something and the other person isn't interested. People get weird and awkward about this stuff, even if one person (either one) is totally cool about it; some girls get super-uncomfortable if a guy they don't like asks them out, and I don't fully understand why.

(Not to mention situations where the other person is seeing someone, let alone if you're friends with that someone. I think we've all seen situations where Guy A likes Girl B, who's dating Guy C, who's not really that into her, and Guy A thinks "Why can't she be with me, I'd be so into her!" And between Guy A's overearnestness and Girl B's penchant for dudes who are distant and hard-to-get, it never goes well.)

Your girlfriend's ex-friend sounds like classic stereotypical quote-unquote "nice guy" behavior. Especially inexcusable is the fact that he got mad when she didn't reciprocate, rather than gracefully accept it. Good riddance.

xpost

I think it happens both ways, but I have to say that I've seen a LOT more of it from women -- the eye-rolling, the "Can you believe he thought...?" And especially, above all, the characterizing of totally normal behavior as "creepy", or whatever, because they're not attracted to the guy in question.

Also, if you want to be cynical, I think some guys don't do the "burn" because if they know a girl is attracted to them, they like to keep the option open of a future booty call.

Now that I think about it, in the last 5-6 years, the only really unrequited-ish situations I've been in myself have involved girls with boyfriends, where I felt as if I couldn't make a move because I'd seem like too much of an asshole if it wasn't reciprocated. (I have few qualms about breaking up couples if I feel a strong, clearly-mutual spark with someone.)

None of them were poem-writing heart-rending bullshit, mind you; just serious multi-level attraction. I only made a move on one (of three), and was unexpectedly and totally successful: she and her boyfriend broke up, we started dating, and it was great.

In retrospect, I regret not making moves on the other two, at least one of whom probably would've reciprocated -- though she turned out to be crazy, so maybe I made the right decision after all. But I think I would enjoy having memories of kissing her, even so.

I have few qualms about breaking up couples

(Lest I seem like too much of an asshole, those qualms include: if they seem happy; if the guy's a good friend; if they have kids; etc.)

I can't say I've ever been the eye-rolling type when someone I'm not interested in has expressed interest or flirted or whatever. But I have to admit, I *have* kind of felt rather uncomfortable when I'm totally not wanting the attention - single or otherwise. And I have to admit, I suspect that has made my behaviour towards a few people a little on the awkard and blunt side if I felt they weren't getting the hint. It is a bit unpleasant having to be that "I'm sorry, I'm not interested" person to someone who's really nice but just not who you're after.

Erm not that I'm trying to suggest I've had to fight off the hordes or anything, ha.

just when I thought I had nothing to contribute to this thread... an old crush re-surfaced today. But it's more of an unrequited lust than gaga crushy love tbh. :P and it's mutual too (just gotta trust me on this, it's past the point where I'm prob imagining things). the only problem is that we're not in the same social circle and have never spoken to each other beyond exchanging nervous "Hi"s in class/elevator before both totally chickening out on starting any sort of conversation. How do I get past this? I have no problems starting conversations with random people except dudes i have the hots for.

I've never understood -- why some women get so, for want of a better word, offended when the "wrong" guy, i.e. someone unattractive or otherwise unworthy, approaches them.

I hear you, because I'm so guilty of this. HOWEVER before you crucify me, I don't go to bars to meet guys, I go with my friends to be with my friends, and I purposefully don't make eye contact or want to seem open to any approaches. If guys want to overlook all those things and also my unenthusiastic responses to questions like "I'm a New York City fireman, what do you do?" and "Budweiser? Let me buy you a real beer." then I don't worry too much about their feelings past that.

NB: That wd be more likely at a bar NOT my local or a place where we knew lots of people; our usual hang-outs aren't pick-up joints so that whole conversation would never happen. But lots of NY bars are kind of obnoxious on the weekends.

A lot of my guy friends talk about being into a certain girl who they feel is crush-worthy, but meanwhile continue to pick up other girls in bars and maybe see them again, maybe not. I'm not putting this entirely on the guys or saying that it makes them assholes or anything, but I think there's...a certain capacity for self-delusion involved.

-- Laurel, Monday, August 11, 2008 2:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

i byproduct of teenage rejection. i know girls who do similar things, crushing on one dude but still seeing other people ... or maybe this is 'male' behavior

a byproduct, rather

its basically like you get rejected by someone you pined for and realize the all eggs in one basket thing is probably not the best maneuver

i don't think anyone can really love the other as s/he is.

most important thing to realize when there's unrequited love: you really didn't love the other, but some image of her/him. when i was 14 yrs i had a HUGE crush. it was painful and also painfully obvious to everyone around me, even though i thought i was hiding it well. then suddenly i just... woke up and realized i wasn't really loving him but some idea of him.

i dont think thats applicable in all scenarios. you can fall for someone you know very, very well who just doesnt feel 'romantically' to you. its obv not worth it, Jordan otm about not wasting time liking someone who doesnt like you the way you deserve, but i dont think its always a fantasy or projection of an idealized person

idea =/ idealized version of said person. (but of course mostly it's idealized)

i like remy's post too but can someone define "romantic inadequacy" ?

oscar very pragmatic and otm

i think worse than this unrequited bullshit is meeting someone who you totally vibe with and is way into you, but lives 4 - 18 hours away.

4-18 hours away? Does that mean sometimes you fly, and sometimes you drive...or what?

at least you're kinda guaranteed to do the wang dang doodle every time you see them, unless you fuck things up

nah, there was a girl who lives in nyc and a girl who lives in minneapolis.

i think long-distance relationships are terrible and i can't just move after meeting someone, so it's like "oh well".

yah long distance BLOWS

"I'm a New York City fireman, what do you do?"

If only . . .

Mary, next time I'll push him your way! Actually if you were there he would obviously have chatted you up, instead of me. I was sort of shocked he bothered (I seem to recall I was in fact READING and he interrupted).

i just dont get crushes - problem solved!

I see men as potential sex partners first, then potential boyfriends later.

I agree with most everything I have read here. Crushes are infatuations that usually pass. They tend to be entertaining for fantasy life and for me, give me a purpose to get up and out the door. It's not something that's ever been acted upon except once in high school and back to the original topic, it was better than I had hoped; we dated a little while but ultimately had nothing in common. I was really glad though at the time that he asked me out and I told him that I had been crushing on him for a year and he said he had been doing the same with me. It was a good ending.

Really being in love, I think takes more time to learn about each other it’s not just a lusty crushy thing although it can start that way. I still am in love with a man I knew more than 15 years ago, and we split up and each of us married someone else. It’s so silly that I still think of him from time to time (we’re both divorced now).

My problem with men is I have what I am now forever going to call “Remy Syndrome” after Remy who so eloquently cut me open and exposed my insides!

I have the fairytale romantic classic movie model ideal man such as Cary Grant, Sean Connery etc. A suave, sophisticated, manly man. This is the image I have pegged as my type. Does this even exist anymore on the planet? I also enjoy the thought of the classic “old fashioned date” of… you go out and learn about each other, share likes, dislikes, communalities (or not) and don’t just jump into bed. Sure I can and have had, casual sex just like most people, but not once has it led to a real relationship nor do I think that either party had it in mind as a long term though when hopping into the sack, so the expectation wasn’t even there. You can have great sex just for fun, but it’s IMO so much better and interesting if you love the person, they love you back and you have something to talk about when you’re done. I guess I am saying that when I am old and sex isn’t as high of a priority, I want to have a friend who loves me and that I love and we can still laugh and hold hands and enjoy each other. But I think the days of these “simple and old fashioned dating ways and “gentlemen” have disappeared. It’s like the typewriter, it’s become obsolete and not a part of the current culture.

The men I meet now who are attracted to me seem to all be the very passive soft less aggressive men, and because I have a strong personality, they are too easily dominated by my personality and in my head turn into Casper Milquetoasts and I quickly lose interest and all respect for them, and I do end up being a bit of a bully which is NOT attractive in a woman. It’s all brainwashing from too much idealized old stereotypes I am afraid. Am I doomed to be alone forever? I am a dreamer…I know…

old-fashioned dating can be a great way to have in depth conversation and really learn about each other, but i've usually really gotten the best conversations after and between sex. although pre-sex conversations can really help lay the groundwork for the others.

I think it happens both ways, but I have to say that I've seen a LOT more of it from women -- the eye-rolling, the "Can you believe he thought...?" And especially, above all, the characterizing of totally normal behavior as "creepy", or whatever, because they're not attracted to the guy in question.

i think this is more of a weird social pressure thing rather than gender difference though - if someone's in a crowd then there's a difference in expectations of how they should behave; with guys it might be a jokey brushoff, to underline their masculine detachment from such frivolous hook-ups, whereas with women there'd be an expectation to reestablish the purely aesthetic order, of being too good for someone, above the likes of those crawling around spitting chat up lines. right? i don't think it hooks into some inherent feminine spite or anything, just differences in group dynamics.

unrequited love for someone you've just found out is recently engaged = sleepless megadud

you go out and learn about each other, share likes, dislikes, communalities (or not) and don’t just jump into bed.

I'm not the sleep around / bounce from girl to girl type, so don't get the wrong idea, but the one time a girl and I ever said to each other, "hey, let's not go straight to the sack because you know how that can get" wound up being the worst relationship of my life. Just the worst!

it’s IMO so much better and interesting if you love the person, they love you back and you have something to talk about when you’re done.

Definitely agree here. Not to put down that kind of rapturous, spontaneous heart attack sex with a near stranger, but it's just better.

One time I finally hooked up with one of my biggest crushes of the preceding 2-3 years. We made out, and then on her next visit to town we slept together. It was sublime and also sweet - but I think the goodness of it had a lot to do with us being best friends by this point, which I don't think would have been possible if a) I'd been more annoying about being in love with her and b) she hadn't been so groovy about understanding it (I'd confessed it to her a year or two previous in somewhat cornball terms) so we could just leave it on the table as a fact and actually not that big a deal in the midst of whatever other good times we were having as friends.

Also it helped that she had no flaws.

It's quite a relief when you find it's unrequited, or maybe that's wishful thinking.

I don't get it

Over this. Over over over over this. Lol time.

^^^This guy. I keep forgetting there's another long-term baby Brit ILXor. Keep goin' dude!

Thanks, I pretty much worked out these are supposed to be the best years of my life, I was draining away far, faaaar too much of my time on someone whose sarcasm, sensitivity and self loathing I only admired because they reminded me of myself. Thank fuck I've moved away from all that.

Plus this year, out of the unexpectedly, is something that is less akin to kicking a dead dog, so I'm gonna go with it.

oh i didn't know you had a crush on me