How would you "reform" society?

think society is more in need of reform than education

― the late great, Wednesday, December 4, 2013

The floor is open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bivsP_h6l0s

But if the floor is open how can I take a stand?

Answer: Only people who can claim descent from lucy are allowed in.

xp
Seems to me the most needed social reform atm would be rationalizing the relationship between the human economy and what nature can sustain. But societies are infamously resistant to any large scale reform. The best way to go about it is to chip away at it, and probably the most susceptible pressure point would be the tax system. A carbon tax comes to mind at once.

people who can claim descent from lucy

According to mitochondrial dna studies, it is pretty certain that this number is zero.

Well, that's going to make for some rather grim galas

give greedy people an unfortunate bioluminescent glow

xp There would always be some gate crashers who'd home in on the champagne like pigeons on bread crusts.

then all infants would have to glow in the dark, I fear.

that would be ok -- then some people will grow out of it and other people won't

would make midnight feedings a bit easier

get rid of all the white ppl

^ Agree

Answer: Only people who can claim descent from lucy are allowed in.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/LIFPOD/803640.jpg

There would always be some gate crashers grad students who'd home in on the champagne like pigeons on bread crusts.

make paul and ringo play an annual concert till the last man's standing

free pizza

http://www.hwdyk.com/q/images/itchyscratchypoochie_03.jpg

and also, you should win things by watching!

i would found a school called "scott walker academy" where memorizing the history of the NFL's socialist franchise (green bay's "packers") would be mandatory in order to pass kindergarten

http://www.dementlieu.com/users/obik/bigblack/discog/images/atomizer1.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3pnBnQCNmeA/Tt1WEWabttI/AAAAAAAAAlU/YBwO0eB61d4/s1600/NukeOrbit.jpg

Beat the shit out of a bigoted bully day would be a good start.

Guns that shoot backwards

all humans proportionally reduced to 1% of current size

nobody to get paid ever for writing about music or fashion or society

Mordy are u wite or notwite

http://www.gwthomas.org/lotr-collectibe_BARROW-Wight.jpg

he's red white and blue

answer the fucking q mordy

race is obv ephemeral + malleable based on geography, history, other vagaries. in the US in 2015 i think jews, esp ashkenazi jews, are considered white. do i pass as white w/ my beard + wearing my kippah and my (stereotypically) jewish features? idk, but presumably i could alter my appearance + affect enough to pass more thoroughly. do i personally identify as white? no, i self-identify as jewish and in such a way that takes complete precedence over race (ie: i have no opinion about the race of person my children end up marrying, only that they're jewish). when i think of white as a racial identification i immediately think of aryanism + other forms of white supremacism that certainly don't include jews, so despite being included in some level of whiteness in the US (at least as determined by the majority of ppl) i really resent the category altogether. like the shoah was a massacre by the most self-identifying white ppl in the world so fuck 'whiteness' imho.

does this answer ur question?

http://www.master-of-education.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/1-The-Jewish-nose-is-bent-It-looks-like-the-number-six.jpg

these white dudes def would not consider me white ^

people that are interested in delineating "white" as a race wouldn't consider me one of them, so no aka Mordy otm

despite being included in some level of whiteness in the US (at least as determined by the majority of ppl)

whiteness in the USA gets redefined periodically, so as to ensure a continuing white majority. the next americans to become white may be various groups of Asian descent.

or latinos.

also fwiw when i took that unconscious bias test a few years ago i had a slightly negative response to white ppl and a neutral response to black ppl so make of that what you will (what i made of it is that my ppl have no historical gripes w/ black communities but lots w/ gentile white communities)

being hispanic, i think in some ways i could pass for white, but i kind of always go back to actually-white kids calling me "spic" growing up and saying all kinds of anti-hispanic racist garbage to me and calling my dad "chief" because he looks somewhat native american and making fun of his accent as evidence that white people don't really consider me or family part of them. so yes fuck "whiteness" mordy otm

tbh though i think having curly dark hair and a thick black beard, i probably code more as a light-skinned arab to most people who don't know me, rather than hispanic/latino

arabs as a racial category makes so little sense to me. a world where sami zayn isn't white is a world where white literally has nothing to do w/ yr skin tone.

otm X 74.2

yeah I'm Latino (South American roots) with a thick black beard also and it's fun to see how people slot me when I travel. in Spain they think I'm Mexican, in France either Arab or some kind of Spaniard, but in the USA I dunno, depends what accent / language I use. my uncle though, my dad's brother, he can pass for south Asian, Native American, Mexican. my dad can jussssst about pass for Japanese. my brother codes as Jewish to a lot of Americans. we're all mixed up.

when i was a child on 3 separate occasions ppl asked if i was japanese, korean and one time some random white kids actually made fun of me by singing "we are siamese if you please" at me as i walked by

the next americans to become white may be various groups of Asian descent.

― Aimless, Monday, March 2, 2015 12:51 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark

Waiting for a "non-Asian white" category on the Census

can I say irish then cos of what the Brits done on us

do you consider yourself British

(Irish Americans were not always considered white in America fwiw)

ive an answer on this somewhere from years ago to the tune of I identify as irish about seventh in line after road, parish, side of island, island, side of county, county and thats before asking which school you went to on the island

obv u'd know better than me deems, but not all oppressions are justified w/ racial science. sometimes they're more about nationalism, or religious sectarianism, etc.

Think you're macsplaining there

xp to shakes

not being flippant or anything and I think there's been rly interesting posts since I pushed mordy into an answer...

Irish-American culture = It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

fuck the system they can't have me
i won't reform society

Xpost I don't want to be ragging on Iriah Americans (I know plenty) but somewhere along the way the culture veered off to the right imo. Probably Reagan's fault.

marcos was pretty otm back there, mordy too

I've expressed the ridiculousness of ethnic and racial categories in the US in another thread, so I partly agree with what Mordy says. I guess 'whiteness' has been talked about to death, but I'll throw in my thoughts, which probably offer nothing new or interesting.

Talking about why or who identifies as white, especially in the Americas is always a very sensitive topic. The thing that goes unnoticed sometimes is immigrant whites (maybe such as the Irish) in the Americas, where they live in a place not from where most of their ancestors came from. So this question of identity is brought up sometimes not by the 'white' immigrant, but by others around him. Unfortunately, and this is by no means a generalisation, some 'white' people are thought of as 'white' not because they choose to, but because some (I stress this word) people whose ancestors are mostly indigenous to the lands that we now call the Americas see them as 'white'. I've noticed in the US, 'whiteness' is seen as a social marker--if I've observed correctly--whereas in other countries this isn't always the case. So to say you're 'white' in the US carries many, many connotations and subtext.

As Mordy has said, considering someone 'white' or any ethnicity/race is due to geography, history, but also, mannerisms, tradition/habits, and, of course, stereotypes (whether we like it or not).

'Whiteness' is romanticised by some Americans (and when I say Americans, I mean North, Central, and South Americans), but there are others who vehemently break ties with them because they are seen as the colonisers. 'Whiteness' in the Americas, though, is made more difficult by the fact that Spanish conquistadors were called 'white', even though, if we go by Mordy's definition, for example, they are far from it.

What makes matters even more complicated is that some South Americans, for example, subconsciously refer to non-Spaniard Europeans as more 'white' or more 'European', which is, of course, nonsensical. But so is the categorising of ethnicities and races in the modern day Americas, for the most part.

I won't share too much of my story, but I'm a typical 'American' (I hold Canadian citizenship): I'm a mut. My closest ancestors/family are Irish and German.

My family were immigrants in the Americas and sometimes traversed through countries where most were of Spaniard and/or indigenous decent. They looked 'white' to them, and they also experienced much racism from them. I'll just be clear and say I resent no one or nothing. There are good and bad people everywhere. But I will say people have a strong tendency to stereotype the 'other' or make quick generalisations of those who we see as 'different to us'.

Also to simplify things, everyone treats me as a white Canadian. People sometimes think my ancestors were 'white Russians', 'white Eastern Europeans' or 'white Italians'. I never really understood any of that, but it is what people have told me.

So, to end on a positive and agreeable note, I think what Mordy said here needs to be repeated:

arabs as a racial category makes so little sense to me. a world where sami zayn isn't white is a world where white literally has nothing to do w/ yr skin tone.

And expanded to include modern day North, Central, and South Americans, because these people are mixed in with other races that were traditionally seen as 'white'.

(Quick anecdote: I met a rich American woman the other day. She found out I was Canadian, and she said "But you don't have an accent". I think this exemplifies one way we define the 'other' and how we have a definition of what we think the 'other' is or should be.)

I hope you responded "I don't know what you're talking aboot"

arabs as a racial category makes so little sense to me. a world where sami zayn isn't white is a world where white literally has nothing to do w/ yr skin tone.

some arabs pass but others don't, and the ones who don't often get attributed all sorts of negative stereotypes

i am canadian & canadian accent is def a thing. it's just not the one you typically hear parodied, which is more of an extreme rural dialect.

no-one says "aboot" tho right? it's more like "aboat"

some jews pass and other don't, and the ones who don't often et attributed all sorts of negative stereotypes, but i'd be very reticent about describing jewishness as a race (not just reticent but vehemently opposed)

xxp Speaking as a Canadian border neighbor, us Midwesterners are liable to take clear enunciation has a curious regional dialect.

i am canadian & canadian accent is def a thing. it's just not the one you typically hear parodied, which is more of an extreme rural dialect.

― flopson, Monday, March 2, 2015 7:35 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Immediately after she told me that I said exactly these words in my best stereotypical (I guess rural, might be a good word) and raised Canadian accent: "Well, you know, it really depends on the region". I gave her a soft smile and luckily she changed the subject, because she's in the entertainment business and really full of herself. (She asked me the same questions two times in the course of 40 minutes. "What do you do?")

I did it automatically. It was like she was defining me and I had to play the part. In retrospect, it made me feel uncomfortable but she was a Hollywood-type, talking about the movies her son is doing and how "It's really in now to have your own theatre in your home, you know?"

People at work do pick up my Canadianism, but if I only speak in short phrases it doesn't come up as much. Plus, Vancouverites don't have the most distinctive Canadian accent.

xpost
as an American living in Canada I can confirm that there are Canadian accents or at least distinct manners of speaking. people I know from BC do not sound exactly like people I know from the maritimes, though both sound different in some way from Americans (who of course have all kinds of regional accents). that said, Americans' perspectives on Canadian accents is hilariously subjective. I have a Quebec driver's license (though I've only lived here since July) and when I rented a car in LA the other day, the counter dude told me he loved my Canadian accent.

when I rented a car in LA the other day, the counter dude told me he loved my Canadian accent.

Yeah, I've been accused of being "English" in a store slightly north of my own hometown. America can be weird.

what was the rental pröcess like? was it from E-Zed rentacar?

xps mordy- im not taking a firm stance on what's a race & what isn't but arabs definitely aren't white in terms of like, the construction of whiteness. i know it's not the case for every jew, but i'm a jew and no one has ever questioned my whiteness. while even my closest-to-passing of arab friends are constantly asked "but where are you from?"

no it was from Budgie Hire-a-Car

"where are you from?" isn't a racial question either though. plenty of white european tourists are asked the same.

well, it can be a racial question

part of my point is that the construction of whiteness as a theoretical category is pretty much nonsense - which isn't surprising since the construct its meant to respond to, "race," is equally nonsense.

i think it's the "but" that matters, like "I'm from Denver" "no, where are you really from?"

iirc, arabs/people of middle eastern descent are considered white in the federal classification system for the census, college admissions, etc

i don't really want to get into a debate about what "where are you from?" means. i do think that a lot of ppl, esp on the left, conflate a lot of different bigotries + discriminations under the rubric of "race," mostly bc of a lack of critical sophistication, i guess? and so you're left with a lot of "race" discussions that bare very little resemblance to any kind of definition of race that doesn't just mean "the Other that you discriminate against," or "the subaltern."

i'm sure there exists some idiot grad student thesis that explains how bigotry against former convicts, even white ones, is actually a kind of racism. or bigotry against the homeless, etc. it really is the quintessential 'when all you have is a hammer.'

"where are you from?" isn't a racial question either though. plenty of white european tourists are asked the same.

― Mordy, Monday, March 2, 2015 2:57 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's racial when someone asks someone with a perfect english/french accent whose family has lived in the country for 2 gens though

part of my point is that the construction of whiteness as a theoretical category is pretty much nonsense - which isn't surprising since the construct its meant to respond to, "race," is equally nonsense.

― Mordy, Monday, March 2, 2015 2:58 PM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not sure i get your point. it may be nonsense but it exists so, we've got to deal with it? like, if people are oppressed on the basis of a nonsense theoretical category that you reject that doesn't make them not oppressed on the basis of the nonsense theoretical category.

Vancouverites don't have the most distinctive Canadian accent.

― F♯ A♯ (∞), Monday, March 2, 2015 2:49 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

people from bc sound more "west-coast" like california to me

i only started noticing it in the past year, since moving from quebec to ontario. when my mom came to visit she was like "it sounds like the cbc!"

flopson, yeah i'm in los angeles a lot so it makes sense

i wrote a long response flopson but i really don't want to argue about whiteness or race. i think you should be able to see why a jew, or a latino, etc might have complicated feelings about being considered "white," and why "passing" and the construction of whiteness are insufficient constructs to understand the construction of insider/outsider group identities (which is the actual omnipresent construct). but yr right that as a pragmatic/political issue, esp in the US, there might be value to concentrating particularly on an idea of "whiteness."

it may be nonsense but it exists so, we've got to deal with it?

where the nonsense plays havoc is when one must try to speak sensibly about gravely serious facts that are mired in senseless and impossible categories which are best defined by a perfectly meaningless terminology

but i'm not going to start self-identifying as a white person bc you've decided that the best way to understand american hierarchies is as white V other. that doesn't work for my self-conception as an individual, or my community

Seriously, OP?

• Revoke corporate personhood (or regularly impose the corporate death penalty of revoking charters).
• Implement transparent taxes on economic externalities (carbon and other pollutant taxes).
• Fund R & D and subsidize implementation to close vital material circuits (importantly this century, phosphorous recovery).
• Fund developing nation education (particularly for girls) to reduce birth rates to below replacement. Free birth control everywhere.
• Redundant seed banks & scientific knowledge repositories, in case we screw up.

Once we close cycles for energy and vital elements and reduce population to sustainable levels (1-2 billion), then longer term thinking becomes possible. Other priorities guarantee existential fighting over resources later this century.

^^ I would sign on to that. The flaw in the original question, though, is the idea that 'society' is one identifiable thing and susceptible to reformation into another thing. Your program is global. Society in any global context is cripplingly self-contradictory.

I'd remove it from the gutter to start

Make everybody listen to Bob Marley.

THE END

^^^^^^

dont rly like bob Marley

genuinely sorry

Get rid of anybody who doesn;t like bob marley

he'll play your favorite song, darragh

bob marley's cover of 'Zombie' is so good

"Get rid of anybody who doesn't like bob marley"

- Bob Marley

http://3.media.bustedtees.cvcdn.com/c/-/bustedtees.95ac553c-6547-439c-b715-71e0b8ac.jpg

if I could choose to like bob Marley I would :(

born this way

you probably like bob marley. you just need to try bob marley in right context.

aka stoned to the gills

Give everybody a spliff and a Bob Marley record

the spliff from the cover of Catch A Fire and a copy of Catch A Fire imo

Jamaican version, though

bc 'High Tide or Low Tide' and 'All Day All Night'

We need to acknowledge that economic and environmental devastation in one community is bad for all communities, and stop thinking that it's our community vs. someone else's. In the U.S. we need more talk of common missions as a nation, what example ought we set - instead of fear, blame and scapegoating.