I've never understood unconditionally disliking fretless bass. There are so many different tones and styles of playing out there. Yes, you have your typical cheesy jazz fusion, but you also have very simple lines like on PIL's "Rise." Fernando's tone and style is quite unique and funky and pleasing to me.
Have you guys seen the Lou Reed Live in New York DVD from 1983? Great stuff! Quine has a cig hanging from his mouth the whole time, and Fernando's in leather pants.
― Patrick South, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:17 (fifteen years ago) link
From a PSF interview with Quine (the whole thing is here):
"PSF: After that, what would you say about the time you played with Lou Reed?
Musically, the first week and a half was really great, out of the four years. We did The Blue Mask. It's a record that I'm really proud of. There was no rehearsing, no overdubs, no punch-in's for mistakes. The exact opposite of the Voidoids. I inspired and encouraged him to play guitar again. I didn't have a lot of fun with him but at least it's out there and I'm proud of that. With that record, Fernando Saunders and Doane Perry were taken aback by this primitive playing. There was an intensity there and we reacted to each other as musicians. It isn't a jazz record but there's that kind of sensitivity. He listened to some wild ideas I brought in like with 'Waves of Fear'- he had nothing to lose at that point as he'd just done Growing Up In Public.
It's just a shame- I'd still be with him now and put up with whatever personal problems I had with him. But he's not a nice guy. In one way, he respected me. If he yelled at me, I'd yell back. I'm outspoken and don't take crap from people. His problem is that he likes to be surrounded by 'yes' men that flatter him but he's smart enough to know what's going on and he hates them for it and he ends up with a lot of hack musicians.
The Blue Mask was a very big critical success but it didn't sell well. It built up his confidence though. By the time we did Legendary Hearts in late '82, he was much more of a control freak. He was rejecting ideas that I brought in. He was feeling pretty precious about his career. His biggest weakness is that he wants to be regarded as a poet. The more conscious he is of this, the worse songs he writes. It could have been a pretty good record. It wasn't going to be as good as the last one: the songs weren't as good. The atmosphere was really uptight- it's impossible to be friends with him. When I got the final mix, I was really freaked out. He pretty much mixed me off the record. I was in Ohio and took it out in the driveway and smashed the tape into pieces. I didn't talk to him for a month but he knew what he'd done. I have cassettes of the rough mix of the record and it was a really good record but he made it all muddy and murky.
He approached me about playing live and I said 'what the hell.' It was a pretty good band- Fred Maher was there. Lou was very erratic with his rhythm playing but I dug that. It was impossible for the drummer to follow it. Me and Fred had to play around him. Fernando was great but I prefer a Duck Dunn-type player who can hold down the bottom. If Fernando doesn't dig a drummer, he wouldn't play with him- he didn't dig Fred. He's a great player when he plays with someone he likes. We did some more touring. He just happened to record bad concerts like Live In Italy. The band was sensitive enough that we were capable of improvising, like on 'Sister Ray' and 'Heroin' which we only did once. He had to teach it to the others but I knew it already.
But there was more and more of a strain between us. About a day before New Sensations was going to be recorded, he fired me and did the guitar himself. I did do the tour with him afterwards- that was a long tour. I came to him and said 'forget whatever happened, I just want to play with you.' By this time, we had an awful band. The new drummer would only play well in rehearsals and the keyboard player (Peter Woods) worked with Al Stewart and Cyndi Lauper. There wasn't much room to improvise. At the end of 'Kill Your Sons,' I'd do a drone and Lou would do a guitar solo- we'd get pretty far out there. This keyboard player thought it was joke and play with his feet- Lou would have to come over and tell him to stop. Because I wasn't on New Sensations, I didn't have a lot to add live. I'd be doing a song, playing D and G for six minutes like 'Doing the Things that We Want To,' which I didn't really like, with no variation and the keyboard guy playing accordian. I thought, 'this is not why I got a guitar and wanted to play in a rock and roll band.' We hated each other's guts, me and the keyboard player. Lou got really abusive at the end- he'd hog all the guitar solos and made sure I got mixed out- even live. I got back from the tour and decided that was it. I assumed he knew it. He'd put me down to the rest of the band, knowing that they'd tell me about it later.
From the greedy professional angle, I've had three things that have made people interested in who I am. The Voidoids things, the Lou Reed thing and Matthew Sweet. On a personal level, Reed was a guy who really influenced me and I had a chance to give something back to him. Encouraging him to play guitar again was digging my own grave. But I would have done it again because I owed it to him. This guy changed my life. If I did something to put him back in the right direction... I wish that it would have gone on with the level of something like The Blue Mask. Everything else after is pretty lousy. He never found anyone else to replace me except the Velvet Underground and he had to ruin that. I hate him because if I had my way, we'd still be playing. It was good steady work. He didn't tour often. I hate his guts because he made it impossible to play with him. There was nothing in it for me. He was not going to give me any space for any creativity."
― DLee, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:20 (fifteen years ago) link
At the end of 'Kill Your Sons,' I'd do a drone and Lou would do a guitar solo- we'd get pretty far out there. This keyboard player thought it was joke and play with his feet
Yikes
― Ich Ber ein Binliner (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:24 (fifteen years ago) link
off-topic - why is Sally Can't Dance Reed's biggest seller? There are no hits on it and apart from the last trio of songs it sounds fucking horrible.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:27 (fifteen years ago) link
I think Lou has asked himself the same question on many occasions
― Ich Ber ein Binliner (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:29 (fifteen years ago) link
It's not his biggest seller – it's his highest charting album. His two biggest sellers are Rock and Roll Animal and New York.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:30 (fifteen years ago) link
and SCD peaked so high on the goodwill and sales built on Transformer and RARA.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:31 (fifteen years ago) link
It sold on the back of "Rock and Roll Animal", didn't it?
― Ich Ber ein Binliner (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:31 (fifteen years ago) link
(xp)
I heard Transformer sold quite well too...
xpost me and my slow typing...
― Mark G, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:34 (fifteen years ago) link
... in the UK it did, don't know how well it sold in the US. Also "Berlin" was in between it and "RnR Animal", and that bombed in the US (but did quite well in the UK)
― Ich Ber ein Binliner (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:36 (fifteen years ago) link
NEW YORK???? Oh I hate that record! This one rules, tho. His goofy domestic stuff was cute and Waves of Fear is PERFECT. That shuddering but unresolving guitar/voice figure catches alcoholic wakeups way too well. What I don't get is how Lou doesn't realise he plays guitar better with SOMEONE ELSE. It doesn't make him look bad; it makes him play and sound a million times better.
Legendary Hearts is cute, not all that great. Mostly cos of ABOVE prob.
― Niles Caulder, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 16:34 (fifteen years ago) link
Eh. New Sensations had some of his best guitar playing, and he recorded alone.
LH is cute?!? It's even darker than TBM.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link
No it's not, it's got Rooftop Garden on it!
― Niles Caulder, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 16:39 (fifteen years ago) link
And I don't recall his guitar. I do recall Quine was on it but got mixed off.
― Niles Caulder, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 16:40 (fifteen years ago) link
Martial Law is, errrrrrrrrr, somewhat less dark than The Gun... for instance
― Ich Ber ein Binliner (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 October 2008 16:40 (fifteen years ago) link
But then you have the title track, "Betrayed," "Home of the Brave," "Bottoming Out."
Quine wasn't mixed off – he was mixed down. You can plainly hear his kind of solo on "Bottoming Out" and "Make Up."
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 14 October 2008 16:48 (fifteen years ago) link
from "LH":
Romeo, oh RomeoWherefore art thou Romeo?He's in a car or at a barOr churning his blood with an impure drugHe's in the past and seems to be lost forever
Wherefore art thou Romeo?
He's in a car or at a bar
Or churning his blood with an impure drug
He's in the past and seems to be lost forever
― "I'ma lose my religion and go secular on you, boy" (Ioannis), Tuesday, 14 October 2008 17:12 (fifteen years ago) link
yup still pretty much the best album ever
i'll put a hole in your face if you even breathe a wordtell the lady to lie down, i want you to be sure to see this, i wouldnt you miss a SA-cundwatch your wifecarrying a gun, shooting with a gundirty animal
― LilDeejTheTasteGod (surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally), Friday, 18 December 2009 05:34 (fourteen years ago) link
going out on a limb here BUT:
Side A is the best side of any Lou solo album.
― LilDeejTheTasteGod (surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally), Friday, 18 December 2009 05:41 (fourteen years ago) link
love this album.. quine's guitar solo on 'women' givs me chills
― Kate 'Impeach' Bush (Future_Perfect), Friday, 18 December 2009 06:05 (fourteen years ago) link
We could have used some of this enthusiasm for the 80s poll a couple weeks back. It didn't even make the top 100.
― kornrulez6969, Friday, 18 December 2009 06:13 (fourteen years ago) link
the gtr playing is awesome on this album but the songwriting is too earnest/obvious. it's like lou made his big comeback as a musician (yay!) at the same time that he kinda jumped the shark in terms of lyric writing. on the whole I prefer his trashy inconsistent 70s >>>>>> his "mature" work in the 80s and beyond. I mean lyrics like these are sheer genius:
She was the first girl in the neighbourhoodTo wear tied-dyed pants, ah, like she shouldShe was the first girl that I ever seenThat had flowers painted on her jeansShe was the first girl in her neighbourhoodthat got raped on Tompkins Square real goodNow she wears a sword, like NapoleonAnd she kills the boys and acts like a sonSally can't dance no more, Sally can't dance no moreShe can't get herself off the floor, Sally, she can't dance no moreSally became a big model, she moved up to eighties and parkShe had a studio appartment and that's where she used to ballfolk singers, and that's where she used to ball folk singersSally can't dance no more, Sally can't get off of the floor
especially when compared to banality like "I love my motorcycle and my wife" etc etc
― chief rocker frankie crocker (m coleman), Friday, 18 December 2009 10:42 (fourteen years ago) link
Lots of great lyrics on "The Blue Mask", some silly ones too, but it is Lou Reed after all
― Sonny Uplands (Tom D.), Friday, 18 December 2009 10:51 (fourteen years ago) link
New Sensations > The Blue Mask
― Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 18 December 2009 12:39 (fourteen years ago) link
m. coleman basically on the money but I'll rep for Legendary Hearts as the last good one, the last hurrah, where the mature motorcycle man songwriting was, um, firing on all cylinders, hadn't yet crystallized into schtick and the Fernando Saunders whale sounds didn't overshadow the guitar playing.
― alter cocker jarvis cocker (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 18 December 2009 15:19 (fourteen years ago) link
never been able to get into this record. imho the best thing about it is the cover
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 18 December 2009 16:49 (fourteen years ago) link
I just checked, this opinion is still 100% batty
― Herodcare for the Unborn (J0hn D.), Friday, 18 December 2009 16:50 (fourteen years ago) link
Heard it was originally supposed to be called Lou Sensations.
― alter cocker jarvis cocker (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 18 December 2009 16:52 (fourteen years ago) link
(You guys should listen to that NYPL VU interview, btw)
― alter cocker jarvis cocker (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 18 December 2009 16:53 (fourteen years ago) link
I love Lou, I think he's great
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Friday, 18 December 2009 16:53 (fourteen years ago) link
Downloading it
― Which one's George Clinton? (Tom D.), Friday, 18 December 2009 16:57 (fourteen years ago) link
revisited this the other day - still lol'ing at Average Guy (my temperature is NINETY-EIGHT point TWO)
― Here is a tasty coconut. Sorry for my earlier harshness. (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 20 May 2010 21:15 (fourteen years ago) link
m coleman is one of my favorite ILM posters -- I look forward to them! -- but he's wrong about Reed's lyrics. "Our House" is a terrific piece of sustained writing, on every level (including musical).
― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 May 2010 21:20 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm kinda of two minds about that one - its SO direct and literal, there's something kinda clumsy about it
― Here is a tasty coconut. Sorry for my earlier harshness. (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 20 May 2010 21:22 (fourteen years ago) link
But then the music churns and weaves itself around the verses and Lou's voice. My god, the intro -- how the guitars and bass create a very quiet ruckus, then settle....I can write reams about it.
― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 May 2010 21:29 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm going to make one point abundantly clear: I cannot think of any belief system that can support the New Sensations > Blue Mask paradox. I'm just glad he didn't type Mistrial > Blue Mask, as that may have caused disruptions in the fabric of reality.
Wait a minute...
...Ooops.
― ImprovSpirit, Thursday, 20 May 2010 21:40 (fourteen years ago) link
I've listened to NS far more often and enjoy its pop knockoffs (the enjoyment of which taught me that Lou's jokes are more serious than his mature stuff). The production's awful though.
― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 May 2010 21:46 (fourteen years ago) link
i've got a Japanese version of NS from a few years ago and it sounds a helluva lot better than the original release. the production still bugs me a little but not nearly as much as it did
― If you can believe your eyes and ears (outdoor_miner), Thursday, 20 May 2010 21:57 (fourteen years ago) link
my favorite thing about average guy, and maybe my favorite single thing Lou did in the 80s, is when, at the point where the singer's supposed to go "hey!" or "yeah!" he yells "average!"
― in which we apologize for sobering up (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 20 May 2010 22:04 (fourteen years ago) link
what the fuck is this song about? I do not get these lyrics at all, really
The heroine stood up on the deckthe ship was out of controlthe bow was being ripped to shredsmen were fighting down belowThe sea had pummeled the boat for so longthat they knew nothing but fear
And the baby's in his boxhe thinks the door is lockedthe sea is in a statethe baby learns to wait for the heroineOhh, ohh, for the heroinelocked in his defense, he waits for the heroine
The mast is cracking as he waves are slappingsailors roll across the deckand when they thought no one was lookingthey would cut a weaker man's neckWhile the heroine dressed in a virgin white dresstried to steer the mighty shipBut the raging storm wouldn't hear of itthey were in for a long trip
Baby's in the boxhe thinks the door is lockedhe finds it hard to breathedrawing in the seaAnd where's the heroine to fire off the gunto calm the raging seasand let herself be seized, by the -
- Baby in the boxhe thinks the door is lockedthe woman has the keysbut there is no moment she can seizeHere's to the heroinewho transcends all the menWho are locked inside the boxwill the lady let them outOhh, the heroine, ooohh, ooohhh, the heroineStrapped to the mast, the pale ascendant heroinestrapped to the mast, the pale ascendant heroine
― twat dust and ego overload (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 20 December 2010 17:08 (thirteen years ago) link
no idea.yo la tengo and will oldham covered "heavenly arms" from this album a couple weeks ago. it wasn't very good, but they get points for trying.
― tylerw, Monday, 20 December 2010 17:09 (thirteen years ago) link
i think this one is overrated, 3-4 really good songs tho
― buzza, Monday, 20 December 2010 17:51 (thirteen years ago) link
i finally found this at my record store yesterday! total classic imo, if only for the quines guitar playing (esp. at the end of Women), waves of fear, and heavenly arms
― pretentious: based on the album 'what happened?' by emeralds (diamonddave85), Monday, 20 December 2010 17:56 (thirteen years ago) link
xxp el perro del mar does a really great cover of heavenly arms
― pretentious: based on the album 'what happened?' by emeralds (diamonddave85), Monday, 20 December 2010 17:57 (thirteen years ago) link
First forty seconds of "My House" = glorious.
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 20 December 2010 18:02 (thirteen years ago) link
oooo and the drum fills towards the end of 'my house' !! really fits with quine's offtime-ish riffing and packs a punch
― pretentious: based on the album 'what happened?' by emeralds (diamonddave85), Monday, 20 December 2010 18:12 (thirteen years ago) link
esp. at the end of Womeni might be wrong, but i think this is actually lou on lead.
― tylerw, Monday, 20 December 2010 18:15 (thirteen years ago) link
ahh yeah, youre right. quine in the left channel, lou in the right
― pretentious: based on the album 'what happened?' by emeralds (diamonddave85), Monday, 20 December 2010 18:20 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, i think the only reason i know that is cuz lou takes the solo on the "night w/ lou reed" video (which is essnetial if you dig this album btw). it is a great solo, though, kinda redeems the song imo.
― tylerw, Monday, 20 December 2010 18:27 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/16/garland-jeffreys-hung-out-with-lou-reed-brush-with-greatnessThe ending of this almost made me want to cry, really, although probably not nearly as hard as Lou cried at the end of Terms of Endearment.
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 17 October 2021 21:11 (two years ago) link
A proud and regal name!He told various stories about why his Mom named him that. As I mentioned on the xpost Delmore thread:...Cynthia Ozick concludes, in her intro to Screeno: Stories and Poems, though some may think of the fancy poems as Delmore, the urban raincoat stories as Schwartz, "they're really from the same DNA." By the time GJ met him, may have already been consistently on the skids, although seems to have always been quite variable. Have held off on reading the Atlas bio because JA dismisses the stories after first collection, or more of them than I do, also, having read so much of him, don't really want to read that much more about him, as w Proust etc., but more so. Prob will someday, though.
― dow, Sunday, 17 October 2021 21:21 (two years ago) link
Haven’t reread in years, but whatever beefs Atlas may have with some of the work, his portrayal of DS is extremely sympathetic.
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 17 October 2021 21:37 (two years ago) link
I found Schwartz a lucid critic and pretty good short story writer and a clotted, obscurantic poet.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 17 October 2021 21:43 (two years ago) link
This indigestible hybrid of (Hart) Crane and Roethke.
You forgot top tier raconteur!
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 17 October 2021 22:13 (two years ago) link
His most famous poems and a selected few others are good but yeah.
I know I seem to stand alone as his sole stan on ILB/X, but I feel something similar about Gilbert Sorrentino: indifferent to his poetry, jaw drops at everything else he does.
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 17 October 2021 22:16 (two years ago) link
Coterie Writers Of Minimum Distinction Memorial Thread
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 17 October 2021 22:19 (two years ago) link
The most recently, frequently revived Lou thread, so I'll paste this here, from ilxor tylerw's invaluable tumblr, doomandgloomfromthetomb:
Lou Reed - Tinley Park, Chicago, Illinois, September 12, 1992*
Last week, we heard Lou debut some spoken word renditions of a few Magic & Loss lyrics. Today, we get to hear them in a more traditional setting: you can’t beat two guitars, bass and drums. I’ve picked this particular show not only because it’s a very nice FM broadcast, but also because it features a very unique, very cool, very short-lived band: the awesome Marc Ribot on lead guitar and bassist Greg Cohen, along with drummer Michael Blair.
Ribot and Cohen at this point were probably best known for their work in the John Zorn and Tom Waits universes, and it’s interesting to hear their styles added to Lou’s early 1990s period. Ribot in particular is probably the most distinctive guitarist this side of Quine that Lou has worked with — and he sounds great here, going for broke in a way that Mike Rathke doesn’t. Check out his smoky solo on “Magician” or his driving, his shimmery sound on “Tell It To Your Heart” or his dramatic playing on “Sword of Damocles.” That latter tune is a highlight; towards the end, Lou quotes “Save The Last Dance For Me,” making its connection to Doc Pomus explicit. A really powerful moment!
I like the other Magic & Loss numbers, too — they’re a little more revved up and energetic, for sure. It’s also impressive that Lou tries to perform “Harry’s Circumcision” in front of a somewhat rowdy outdoor audience. He really believed in his new material — in fact, the set is dominated by late-period material, aside from a few obligatory walks on the wild side. Onwards!
Lou Says (1992): You’re confused because you’re thinking about pop music and pop records, or rock ‘n’ roll. Think about Brecht and Weill, “Seven Deadly Sins.” Boy, now I wish I had come up with that one first. If you think of it as Lou Reed music, not pop or rock, those expectations (of what kind of songs belong on a pop record) disappear, because they don’t exist for an artist… All the way back to “Heroin,” the idea was to tell stories from different points of view, with conflicting opinions. Some of it can seem very personal, or at least it comes across that way, because you’re acting. And then you can write something equally personal that’s completely at odds with what the first person said. Any great novel has lots of “personal things” floating through it, whatever the character you’re writing about.*link is at top of tyler's page:https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/search/Lou%20Reed%20Marc%20Ribot
― dow, Friday, 18 February 2022 00:40 (two years ago) link