xp: re: hesher:like a townie ... outer-suburbs lower-working-classlike the white folks you see on Cops. basically the Coastal version of a redneck
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:48 (fourteen years ago) link
and as i said earlier, an awful lot of people crossed over to doom/BM via "folk" like dead raven choir/wolfmangler. Those certainly changed my mind about BM(along with hearing Weakling because i liked The Fucking Champs, obv i was already long into doom.
― Pfunkboy : The Dronelord vs The Girly Metal Daleks (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:49 (fourteen years ago) link
some of us are older than the generation that "grew up" with grunge. We grew up when hair metal was on the charts in the US, and equating that with "metal" could easily put someone who would appreciate Darkthrone, Napalm Death, black metal, death metal, doom metal, what have you, off the general category.
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 19:49 (fourteen years ago) link
I would say Melvins are the white elephant in the room here.
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:50 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^ xp to sarahel
― being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:50 (fourteen years ago) link
anyway my present liking of metal is really just me picking back up the trail that I veered off from when I got my first Huskers, Minutemen, Black Flag and Pups records. The year before that, my favorite shit had been stuff like Blue Oyster Cult, Molly Hatchet, Aqualung and Twisted Sister, yr basic hard rock diet that would have surely led to NWOBHM and thrash if those options weren't physically dangerous in that environment.
― vadnais heights is cougartown (Jon Lewis), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:50 (fourteen years ago) link
(tho i'm not even 30 yet)
xp - sexydancer - I'd only heard the term once before from someone that grew up in Washington State, and I was confused about what she was referring to. I'm just wondering whether it's specific to a particular region, or whether I just happened to grow up in a region where this term wasn't used.
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 19:52 (fourteen years ago) link
honestly, i'm kinda using the term retrospectively---not sure if i heard it before going to lol college in NE
― being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:53 (fourteen years ago) link
I never heard hesher till after I left minnesota in 1989.
― vadnais heights is cougartown (Jon Lewis), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:53 (fourteen years ago) link
wait, no, i did: in the pages of POWDER magazine, haw
New England or Nebraska?
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 19:54 (fourteen years ago) link
but once i pulled what the word meant from the context, i was like 'ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i know that guy'
xp i am also a despicable ivy, sarahel
― being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:54 (fourteen years ago) link
they talk funny in that part of the country.
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 19:56 (fourteen years ago) link
There was only a couple of people i knew at school that was into metal (same goes for "indie" most were into U2/INXS/Guns n Roses/Bon Jovi/Pet Shop Boys/Erasure/Queen/Dire Straits and whatever was in the charts in the mid to late 80s) Only a couple were into hair metal, a few others liked Slayer,Megadeth etc. I think i was put off metal as i hated hair metal.I had a cd player n stuff but i wasnt "into" music. I occasionally listed to peel or tommy vance just to hear something that i wasnt fed up with hearing, and i also liked some classic bands like the stones,sex pistols and the like but actually "getting right into music" that didn't happen til Nirvana, that opened up a whole new world of music that I had no idea that existed really.
I do know that in the 90s playgrounds in the high schools round here got divided into "the rockers/metallers" and "the beautiful people" who were into mainstream chart stuff (which includes club stuff.) No idea what it's like now, but emo's seem to be as popular as nu metal/goth was.
― Pfunkboy : The Dronelord vs The Girly Metal Daleks (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:56 (fourteen years ago) link
xp: I'm from Washington too, and remember "hesher" being thrown around in the late 80s-early 90s to describe "metalheads" or people who resembled Cliff Burton.
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link
The year before that, my favorite shit had been stuff like Blue Oyster Cult, Molly Hatchet, Aqualung and Twisted Sister, yr basic hard rock diet that would have surely led to NWOBHM and thrash if those options weren't physically dangerous in that environment.― vadnais heights is cougartown (Jon Lewis), Friday, December 11, 2009 1:50 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― vadnais heights is cougartown (Jon Lewis), Friday, December 11, 2009 1:50 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
"physically dangerous" overstates the case in my own experience, but this is basically OTM. I listened exclusively to KQ and 93X. i would've continued to do so were it not for two major radio events: 93X became the EDGE, and REV105 happened.
― being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah - from kingkonggodzilla's evocative description, I can definitely say I went to high school with a number of dudes like that.
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:00 (fourteen years ago) link
The metal dudes were the only (non-ethnically determined) outsider group at my St. Paul high school besides the punk rockers. The only proto-goths I knew were from the suburbs. There were like 2 New Romantics.
wait gbx you are also from twin cities (KQ)?
― vadnais heights is cougartown (Jon Lewis), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:01 (fourteen years ago) link
some of us are older than the generation that "grew up" with grunge.
well i was 18 when grunge hit, but like i said, i wasnt really "into" music til then.I guess i grew up with hair metal but i hated it, but it was a lot easier to ignore/be unaware in the uk. It's not like those bands got top 10 hits ,got played on radio and most people did not have access to MTV. Guns n Roses were the exception. I wouldn't really have been aware of hair metal if one of my best mates kept buying it.
― Pfunkboy : The Dronelord vs The Girly Metal Daleks (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:02 (fourteen years ago) link
1990s Olympia WA had a generation of Melvins-obsessed "hipsters" (or riot-boys or Nu Punkers) ... Karp, Mukelteo Fairies, Behold the Prophet No Lord Shall Live, Fucking Champs, etc
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:03 (fourteen years ago) link
Honest answer:
Pretty sure the whole current dilletante/hipster/indierock embrace of black metal/doom/kvlt started with Dave Grohl doing the Probot record on Southern Lord which gave them instant cred among dorkus Sufjan losers and a much bigger budget to actually promote stuff like Sunn, Earth, and get records like that serviced to indie rock writers by indie publicists and whatnot
― my adrian langs a ton (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:05 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm pretty sure it started before that. Grohl was probably doing it to ride along on it's wave. That record truly flopped though, so it didn't do him or anyone involved much good.
― Pfunkboy : The Dronelord vs The Girly Metal Daleks (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:06 (fourteen years ago) link
JL: yeah, live in MPLS through 3rd grade, out to h4stings for high school. away to the east coast for college, several years in the west/chicago, back in mpls
― being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:07 (fourteen years ago) link
current status: hungry, poser
don't forget JOHN ZZZORN dude
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link
he attracted a different kind of dilettante/hipster than the ones Whiney is describing.
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link
we are talking historical hipsters tho.
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link
hipsters that maybe needed an intellectual "in" to metal
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah but Whiney's Sufjan losers are not the same hipsters that pay attention to John Zorn, are they?
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link
xxxxp yeah because before SST defined my 1985, KQRS defined my 1984.
― vadnais heights is cougartown (Jon Lewis), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link
Zorn/early Boredoms could be key here, really. 'Where can I hear more shit like this'? 'Try your local metal grocer's freezer!'
― vadnais heights is cougartown (Jon Lewis), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link
can i remind hipsters and troo metalheads to nominate and vote NOMINATIONS THREAD for ILX METAL ALBUMS Of 2009 (Closes December 20) - non rolling metal regulars welcomed to warm themselves by our blackened pyre of statistics, so plz Vom and Note
― Pfunkboy : The Dronelord vs The Girly Metal Daleks (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link
xp - but are these the same people that pay attention to the doings of Dave Grohl and Sufjan? Whiney come back!
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:16 (fourteen years ago) link
I feel like there is some crossover among them, but there are separate types of hipsters.
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:17 (fourteen years ago) link
don't forget the "art world" fascination with metal.
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:18 (fourteen years ago) link
There are good and bad reasons for snobbery about metal. Growing up in the South, a lot of metal fans around me in Kentucky really were dumbass racist jock rednecks. But it also crossed over into the D&D store / computer programmer / math league / gamer nerds that those jocks would beat up. So the power fantasies in metal can serve two audiences (power lifters getting pumped before their workout, and wannabe Columbine kids dreaming of striking back). I was into hardcore when I was growing up in the eighties and metal was "the enemy" until slowly but surely . . . it wasn't. Black Flag's "My War" was so Sabbath-like that most punks/hardcore kids I hung out with also listened to Black Sabbath, and while people laughed at hair metal, kids in the scene knew that Metallica's "Ride the Lightning" was cool, Carcass' "Reek of Putrefaction" was cool, Venom's "Possessed" was cool, etc. I was not into things that blatantly called themselves "crossover" ala DRI or SSD's sellout album, but an album like Corrosion of Conformity's "Animosity" was pretty solidly in both hardcore and metal camps. So . . . I've been into metal since Samhain's "November Coming Fire" tour, and I don't feel all that threatened by the accusation that black metal is "for hipsters"- I think if somebody is late to the party that's not necessarily their fault or something. The point is to be discriminating about what you like on its own terms rather than in terms of the bodycount/glamour/hype. I got "Filosofem" from my friend Kris Force when her band was signed to Misanthropy records and I just remember that the first time I heard Burzum there was immediately something really special about it that was emotional and hard to put into words. Am I just another "hipster" because I don't exclusively listen to metal always and only? fuck that. I think it's a false choice as far as death metal and black metal. There's great records in both camps, and derivative crap in both.
― twice boiled cabbage is death, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:19 (fourteen years ago) link
sarahel
Using the vague definition of "hipster" meaning "someone who is primarily into indie rock instead of metal" (as my metalhead friends who call me a hipster generally do)
Yes, Zorn/Boredoms-gateway-metal dudes are like an older generation of hipster than Southern Lord/Vice photo book/Matthew Barney nu-indie hipsters
― my adrian langs a ton (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:21 (fourteen years ago) link
So the power fantasies in metal can serve two audiences (power lifters getting pumped before their workout, and wannabe Columbine kids dreaming of striking back).
Yeah - I'd say that is accurate.
I got "Filosofem" from my friend Kris Force when her band was signed to Misanthropy records
Is this Amber Asylum or a different band? Or am I mixing up people again?
I think it's a false choice as far as death metal and black metal. There's great records in both camps, and derivative crap in both.
same here.
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:22 (fourteen years ago) link
it should also be noted that Justin Broadrick from Godflesh used a drum machine and sported short hair and a hoodie way back inna late 80s.
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:22 (fourteen years ago) link
xp - Whiney - I think the former is "my generation"
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link
xpost
yeah Amber Asylum
oh and obvious point but I would say that Aquarius Records in San Francisco is a great case of people who were always into tons of weird and cool music and obviously a "hipster" epicenter and they have always supported black metal and doom, so if you're looking for who put this stuff into hipster bloodstreams, AQ is one contender on the West Coast at any rate. Cinematically, Harmony Korine's "GUMMO" soundtrack did the same for NYC and stylists/fashionistas, I reckon.
― twice boiled cabbage is death, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link
What put me off BM for the longest time was the neo nazi connotations. I know I'm not the only one.
― Pfunkboy : The Dronelord vs The Girly Metal Daleks (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link
Considering Aquarius stocks Chunklet magazine - "hipster" epicenter is quite apt.
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:24 (fourteen years ago) link
aQ might cater to hipsters but the guys behind it are def long term metal fans, who also like other stuff, like most of us here on ilx posting to this thread really.
― Pfunkboy : The Dronelord vs The Girly Metal Daleks (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:24 (fourteen years ago) link
I think the neo-nazi connotations are an attraction for the "art world" types--fantasies of an all-white, all-male universe.
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:25 (fourteen years ago) link
i'm younger (29 next month), but i definitely am coming to metal via an interest in jazz/noize
― being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:25 (fourteen years ago) link
xxp - duh, one is not one's audience.
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:26 (fourteen years ago) link
A lot of hipsters are actually drawn to it BECAUSE of the neo-nazi connotations. Look how we deify they openly racist eugenics fan Varg Vikernes ON THIS VERY BOARD as a hero.
― my adrian langs a ton (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 December 2009 20:27 (fourteen years ago) link
i definitely am coming to metal via an interest in jazz/noize
same here + "brutal prog"
― sarahel, Friday, 11 December 2009 20:28 (fourteen years ago) link