Jay-Z / Nas hip-hop throw down? & other throw-downs?

ALL YALL MUTHAFUCKAS TALKIN ABOUT HOW GREAT JAY Z IS. THIS NICCA IS WEAK AS WATER. TELL ME HOW A NICCA WAS TRYING (I DID SAY TRY) TO BEEF WITH THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME(PAC)WHEN HE WAS LIVIN, AND AFTER MY NICCA DIED HE IS GIVIN HIM MAD PROPS LIVE (ON MTV MUSIC AWARDS AND SEVERAL TIMES IN HIS SONGS, BYTCH AZZ NIGGA). IN CASE HOVA HASN'T HEARD "...FUCK JAY Z AND I SMOKE DAILY..."(UNTIL THE END OF TIME) ENOUGH SAID! AS FOR THE BLUE PRINT THAT SHYT IS O.K. IT HAS ONLY LIKE 3 TRACKS. NOW ABOUT NAS THAT NICCA IS GAY TOO. HE NEEDS TO COME OUT WITH SOMETHING, SHYT WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME HE GOT AN INCOME OVER SIX FIGURES..."THE MOVIE BELLY" "...WHAT ABOUT THIS NIGGA NAS HE COPIED MY STYLE FIVE SHOTS COULDN'T DROP ME I TOOK IT AND SMILED..."(HIT EM UP) ENOUGH SAID! PRODIGY HE IS O.K., THAT NICCA TRIES TO KEEP IT GANGSTA. NOW LIKE SUGE K. SAID ALL OF THESE EAST COAST NIGGAZ IS FAKE AND HE ONLY HAS RESPECT FOR WHO DOUBLE RR MEANING JADA KISS N THEM, "...THAT'S WHY PAC AINT REALLY LIKE MOST OF YALL COWARDS!!"(KISS THE GAME GOODBYE) PERSONALLY I THINK JADA'S ALBUM IS NICER THAN HOVA'S, SHYT ALL OF HIS TRACKS ARE GRIMMY. ONE LAST QUOTE FROM THE GREATEST "I AM A bad boy KILLA jay z DIE TOO LOOKIN OUT FO mobb deep NIGGA WHEN I FIND YOU...." OH YEAH AND THE SOURCE IS WACK TOO GIVING NAS AND BIGGIE FIVE MICS WHEN THEY KNOW DAMN WELL THAT THE BEST ALBUM TO EVER DROP WAS U ALREADY KNOW ALL EYEZ ON ME. DON'T GET IT TWISTED.

to me in my opinion personally i think the best LYRICIST has to be master p cuz he keep it gutter and he keep it fa sho dirty. 2nd lyricist is nelly, with ludacris coming in at a close 3rd, fa shoe ya undagig ei whatt it do holla at ya boy. tell ya mama let me smash in her ear, ei fa sho holla at me.

I don't want anyone to think for a second that i feel nas has lost his ability to speak poetry. i know that he has it in him. but i, like many other hip hop fans that love the "art", feel he hasn't grown from illmatic. you just don't come gutter your first time out then leave it all behind for the glamour. at that time, we already had 40,000 mc's rappin about italian clothes, champagne, ice, and 4.6's. we didn't need nor want that from him. he was the one that was supposed to put the east coast back on the map. take hip hop back to the streets(once again, not for the violence-for the cause). now i understand that a nigga gotta eat, but that's what makes an artist truly an artist. one who doesn't compromise for the almighty dollar. don't get me wrong, if that's what you do-that's what you do. jigga happens to be good at it. but many of us just expected more from nas. i don't hate him for it, just disappointed. he came wicked on stillmatic, but it feels a little bit like hatin'!! battle raps won't get him the title. a couple of tight cd's will get him back on track though.

The definition of lyricist is not Master Percy. Any rep from the SOUTH is BITCH MADE with some exceptions. Master P-Bitch made, Lil' Wayne-bitch made, anyone else with lil' or big in there is BITCH MADE. A lyricist award should be awarded to the following: Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Common, Mos Def, Pharoahe Monch, 2Pac (early years) and with another album like Marshall Mathers LP Eminem. As for the best in battle rap 2Pac (later years), L.L. Cool J, Jay-Z with a track like "Takeover" and Biggie Smalls with the 2Pac retaliation tracks such as "Long Kiss Goodnight" and "Dig 'em up(unreleased)".

Anyone whose top 3 lyricists are p, luda, and nelly needs to get the fuck outta this discussion

I'm tired of people saying Nas ain't commercial. Than the what the hell was "You Owe Me" w/ Ginuwine all about? Oochie Wally? He was trying to gain commercial success mu fuckas. Like Jay-Z said Niggas betta learn to respect the King. Hov got all this rap game on lock even with his sorry ass Roc-a-fella crew. Nas don't know who he wants to be anymore. He failed at being a thug because Cormega pulled his card in XXL and admitted that Nas never slanged crack/rock. Nas is a poet and he should keep his ass in the books and not try to be a thug cause he aint. Hov is gutter and he makes music that everyone can feel. That nigga ain't commercial. that nigga is a smart ass business man who is making some mean ass loot. So quit hating on my nigga. So mark my words DMX Jada Mobb Deep Jayo Felony Nas QB whoever ya'll can't fuck with Jay on the mic. Don't throw rocks at the throne bitch.

You're all 35-year-old white male accountants in Jersey City, aren't you?

y'all need to peep OLU DARA ... Nas' FATHER. he does some ill southern folk/caribbean/bluesy stuff with guitar and the cornet. this proves that nas has musical genes. he is a poet, a musician. but, he ain't no gangsta. jay-z is a gangsta. 2pac will NEVER be the greatest lyricist ever. he is just one of the greatest rappers ever. there's a big difference. his shiy like "it's all about you" "changes" "i ain't mad atchya" "get around" "live and die in l.a." ... they don't showcase great lyricism. they showcase a great performer who can make ya feel what he feels. when there is a debate about lyrics, and rapstyles, how can you argue with biggie's "notorious thugs" or "the what" with methoman or "nasty boy" or "going back to cali" or "everyday struggle." and don't hate jay-z for giving props to the dead. battling and feuding is for the living. even dr. dre made peace with eazy-e. ain't no use to feud ... unless 2pac is still alive. jay-z understands that 2pac was great. he just didn't like him when he was alive. and if y'all are throwin in corny emcees into the mix like master p and nelly, how about busta rhymes. he's got ... many stylez, many stylez. the one joint with mystical is off the heebeez, and "the body rock" with puffy, mase and rampage, busta wrecked it. give props where props are due. commercial or not, jay-z is great. and, nans is a great poet. but, when it comes to KING OF NEW YORK, the title stays with HOVA. whoever talked smack about nas' "you owe me" with ginuine with also the "hate me now" track is right. nas tried to ride the train. lost his hop faithful. the illegitmate son of prince rakim has lost much of his ooomph. battle rhymes died out in the mid nineties anyway.

H to the Izzo V to the Izzay what the fuck is that nigga tryin to say stupid azz jigga never pulled a trigga Nas is right / Jay-Z is a HOMO

That last line didn't rhyme.

This is fa all ya niggaz out there that is feelin this shit that's goin on between jay-z and naz. It aint nuttin but a shitfest. jay hova's got skills but he need to stay away from battle rappin, especially wit nasty nas, that nigga will eat his ass like cornbread! Jay is definetly the hottest in the game right now but he need to stick wit what he know. HE aint know gangsta rappa JAy just keep it tight. ANd nasty need to come out of the shell he was in oochie, that's cool but he need to burn them hits like back in the day. ANy way I'm out niggaz. One

i'm feelin' you A.Sol!! i just wanted to apologize to all for saying i give jigga 41/2 mics a few lines back. after listening to each cut a few more times, in my humble opinion it's a definate 5. he brought it all on this one. initially i gave him a 41/2 for biased reasons. but to give him anything less than 5, i'd truly be hatin'. this one's a classic. as for nas.., wasted talent is a sad thing. there is so much that he can potentially bring to this game. i don't know if the love is there anymore though. maybe the money and the fame had a little too much of an affect on him. right now i'm seeing nas as whitney houston....all the talent in the world, but what the fuck is going on?!!! or should i say mariah?

and another thing. i think for anyone to put down an entire coast is bullshit. although i don't agree that master p and nelly are on the top 10 lyricist list[:):)lol], there are several wicked lyricist from every coast and in between. but understand that opinions will differ. i'm feelin many artists from rawkus records but another nigga might not because you can't dance to it or it might not be gangsta enough. on the other hand i might not be feelin their music because they ain't talkin about shit or they're not teachin me anything. as long as you are being true to the music you're trying to put out and to yourself, i've got to respect!! oh, sorry for gettin off the subject. NAS VS JAY Z.........JIGGA BY UNANIMOUS DECISION. did i spell that right? decision....hmmm.

Vashon...."i'm about a dolla, what the fuck is 50 cents?" did u forget that line? jay is the man, he never fell off. where have u guys been for the last 5 years? as a matter of fact, u musta been at the same place nas has been at. u cant be the man with 2 hot songs an album. any song on any of jay's albums could be hit singles. u cant top that. hova is the king of hip-hop. nas aint even on the level to suck jay's nuts.

On Illmatic and Reasonable Doubt Nas and Jay-Z were keeping it real, rapping what they knew, wallpaper, green chairs, fudge banana swirl. Then Jay-Z got snooty-tooty and no more green chairs for him, it's all the black lampshade of elegance. Flying porchmats and tendril-charming piddle. No, you're wrong, Jay-Z triumphs, it's not the black of death, it's the black of eyelashes! the black of whiskbrooms! the black of stereo components! And Nas isn't even green chair. He's green stool maybe. And that's no green, it's olive green, gangrene, anemia green. "Olive green" you say? It's martini green! The stemware blade of slit-you stillness, Nas is. He's a poet, a Rod McKuen. Nas? A Rod McKuen? He's a Washcloth McKuen. While Jay-Z is the McKuen Daddy, the laser-sharp flare of autumnular grace, the fire - no, no, wait! - the firefly night-style - no, wait, wait, STOP!

What the fuck is "autumnular grace"?

It's the automative shift-up rev-up into the smooth food crusher--

No. You're making that up. It doesn't MEAN ANYTHING.

Mean anything? MEAN anything? I come in talking two C's. That's still the price. I come because I thought I'd get a take it or leave it, one right gee to another. Now you're waving "meaning" at me. You oughta be ashamed of yourself.

OK. You're right. I'm sorry. So what you're saying is that Nas is the orgasm technicolor reflex, and Jay-Z is the long cool glide?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

not sure i follow, but it sounds wicked. hhmmm.....not sure

But jazz is hard to follow; I mean you actually have to like jazz to follow it; and my motto is, never follow anything. But my post follows your post, so I've just revealed myself as a hypocrite. If there's a moral here, it's that real isn't something to copy, it's something to create. And by the way, you did spell decision right.

#1 To whoever said Pac ain't one of the best when it comes to lyrics, you r wrong. He had it from the start of his rap career to the end. PAIN--steady thuggin' in the streets/ and i'll be ballin' loc/ don't let'em make you worry/ keep swingin' at these suckas till you buried/ i was born to raise hell, a nigga from the gutta,/ with a motha on drugs/ i'm kickin dust up/ ready ta bust/ i'm on the scene/ steady muggin' mean /until they kill me/ i'll be livin this life/ i know you feel me. One of his last UNTIL THE END OF TIME--- Perhaps I was addicted to tha dark side/ Some where inside my childhood I missed my heart die / And even though we both came from tha same places /Tha money and tha fame made us all change places /Could it be through tha misery/ They can't get past?/ The hard times make a true friend afraid to ask/ for currency but you can run to me when you need it/.... It never stop, when my mama ask me will I change/ I tell her yeah but it's clear I'll always be tha same/.... Remain strong in this planet full of playa hataz/ They conversate but Death Row full of demonstrators/ And in tha end drinkin' henassy/ made all my enemies envy me/ So cold when I flow eliminatin' easily/ Fall to they knees, they plead for they right to breath / While beggin' me to keep tha peace haha/ What I can see closer to achieve/ In times of danger don't freeze time to be a G/ Follow my lead I supply everything you need/ An ounce of game and tha trainin' to make a G'/ Remember me? No disrespect but do your homework cuz. #2 Whoever wanted to bring Nelly, Luda, and Mystcal into the debate ...you r str8 up tripin. That's all I'll say on them; they don't even get half a bar from me. #3 Don Was, I agree with you to a point dogg, but why does one person have to stick to one style? How come Nas can't do some thug songs and then do some Puff songs too? I feel you on an artist being true, but why can't he try it all without being lable a seelout. I'm not sayin you said this, but we shouldn't pigion hold people. Besides it ain't one rapper that I can think of that has a CD with nothing but HARDCORE songs, I said it before, u gotta put out a few MTV songs. I know many disagree, but u can't have it both ways. Some are going by the sales. Okay, well the MTV songs sale. But if Nas keeps it all street then it won't sale as many and then peeps say "It only sold half a mil." And Jay has put out many less than hardcore songs why isn't he called out for that? Izzo, and Girls, Girls. I like em both but if y'all goin say Nas fell off with "Hate me now" remember it goes both ways. Holla. Qoolout of D.C. baby

this battle is nice, like someone said before i hope it dosent turn violent, anyways as far as greatest lyricist, i got to give it to RAKIM...THE MASTER!

Jay-Z ate Nas ass up. Me and my boy just listened to that shit, and we LOVED when Kay called two of Nas' albums "doo!" That shit's hilarious! Second, Jay-Z will never be the King of NY. It's still Biggie - 5 years after his death. Jay-Z is the king of hip-pop, which is not necessarily a diss. I like Jay-Z a lot, but I recognize that 90% of his success is based on collabos (whoever's hot at the time) and production. Timbaland, Dr. Dre, DJ Premier, Swizz Beatz, the Neptunes, etc. all produce his songs. How can they NOT be hits? He's nice lyrically, but with such great production he doesn't have to really try. 2Pac is without a doubt the greatest rapper of all time. He ate the East Coast alive on Hit Em Up, then he ate them up (along with gay ass Dre) on Makaveli. As a rapper, 2Pac stands alone at the top. Biggie was a great lyricist, but his delivery was nowhere near Pac's. Nor Nas, Jay-Z, or Jada or anybody. The reason Pac is the best is because he can take any lyric and any beat and make it a hit. I mean if I wrote a song, and I had Big, Jay-Z, Pac, DMX, Eminem, Meth, Red, whoever perform what I wrote, Pac would make it sound the best. No one else can do that. Especially not monotone Jay-Z or snot in the throat Biggie. Eminem comes the closest to combining lyrics and delivery like Pac. Another thing, I'm from the South. Our lyrics may not be all that, but that South thrives on production and delivery or basically, making your head bob. If you ain't bankhead bouncin when you hear a song, then take that shit out the South. And if you notice, that's why nobody talks about king of the South because there's so many rappers with hits. Outkast, UGK, Three 6, 8ball, Timbaland, Master P, Ludacris, Jermaine Dupri, and all of the one hit wonders. The South is where it's at. So in closing 2Pac reigns, with BIG and Eminem following (don't hate on the white boy) and the South makes you bounce. We ain't worried about weak ass poetry with music. P.S. Mos Def, Black Thought, Common, PMonch, and all those earthy Erykah Badu's little sons bastards all sound the same - extremely dick in he bootie.

Ally, more like 12 year old white males

Can someone give me the 411 on Jay-Z . Dont know nothing bout him.

What do you want to know?

I agree with everything Hillis 3000 said.

Let me just re-iterate. Tupac did nothing for rap, where can you hear his influence now? Where? Nowhere because noone is willing to reproduce the sort of cheesey loungey, Mariah Carey without lyrics type beats he had and his pretentious bastard Rose from Concrete Makiveli bullshit. Was his voice anything particularly special? Hardly. Cemented the gangsta posturing??? Hardly ,it was well in place by the time his day came along. In case you didnt know Tupac is up with Aphex Twin on my hate list.

I like the quality of Biggie's voice more (small diff. w/H3K) and you have to hand it to him for creating his own scene. But 2Pac was more vulnerable than Biggie. You could hear it in his voice, that he was struggling. It takes guts to bare yourself like that on record. Somehow the way Biggie invested in his own myth didn't allow him to. Self-doubting rap = more to relate to (for this hed).

I keep telling ya lame niggad that Jay-z And Nas is Lame Fabolous is the nigga ya should be talking about Ghetto Fabolous is better than the Blueprints

Don, I'm not too familiar with either Jay Z or Nas's oeuvre but in your professional opinion which one could walk the dinosaur?

Are the Fabolous songs without Nate Dogg on them anywhere near as good as the single that's out now? Somehow I doubt it.

Fabulous is average at best, his flow is suspect, his delivery is nothing to get excited about, and the only good thing he has done musically is steal a hook from 2Pac and have Nate Dogg guest star - both of which have been done before, so the bastard isn't even original.

Ronan this is for you. 1st of all, Pac has all of the sterotypes because 80% of the people out have copied him. Master P and cash money and a lot of others are wanna be Pacs. Even those who don't str8 up bite him, have used some of his lines. Like Jay-Z, "not a demon, but a rose in the cement," or another Jay Z line "You wasn't using it right, you made it a hot line, I made it a hot song," Pac already said that, "Yeah I took y'alls beat, you wasn't rockin it right." Second, you say "what did he do for rap?" He did too much for me to try to explain it dogg. Like I said before, you need to do your homework. What rapper made an entire song about his mother before Pac did it? Scarface (maybe) is the only one I can think of. Now just about all of them wanna do it. Who was saying that they was a Thug before Pac made it popular? Now every single so called hardcore rapper has to say "I'm a Thug." And you can't hold Pac responible for "Rose in the cement." If it was bad, don't say Pac put out a bad CD. He didn't produce that, and he did decide who would read and flow on there. Tell me if Pac is so bad, who is it that you like? Nines times outta ten, you'll say someone who probably copied Pac. And to the person who says Ghetto Fab is better than Blueprints... I'm not gonna touch that statment. I'll let someone else handle that. Holla, Qoolout

And another thing... Ronan, this may be cliched but, put down the Haterade. I bet you're one of them niggas who don't like Jordan, says Shaq has no skill, thinks Iverson is a thug, swears Randy Moss is overrated, and thinks Wayne Chrebet is better than Keyshawn.

I agree with the guy who said Rakim. 2Pac was the thug and Biggie was the king, Nas is the poet and Jigga is the pop king, but yall need to remember: RAKIM WAS THE GOD. If he was in his prime today, with the production today's rappers get, yall heads would be spinning because nobody could flow so nice as the god Rakim. If you don't own up to this you don't have hip-hop love or knowledge.

As for Jay v Nas, Nas maybe had more talent than Jay originally, but face it Nas fans, after Illmatic it has gone to waste. In '95 you had an argument based on lyrical skills but not anymore, and the only reason people say he is better than Jay is because they are HOVA HATIN. A lot of you people who were noddin to the shit on Vol 2, yeah even Hard Knock! don't lie to me nigga, I saw you in the club! turned around and started hatin Jay when Vol 2 blew up.

Look at it: most everyone knows Nas has lost the lyrical depth, and everyone agrees he can't put together club tracks as hot as Jay. J puts out "Izzo" and hatas call it pop sellout but they forget that Nas put out shit like "K.I.S.S.I.N.G." which is just an attempt to copy Jiggaman and turn pop, but its not as hot a track for the club as Jay can make and lyrically it is pure garbage. Jay has put out some weak shit at times but never anything as sad as "K.I.S.S.I.N.G."

Roc-a-wear does suck tho. My boy got some and it fell apart. Peace.

my, my, have things gotten ugly here. i think what many are not quite following is the point that nas has not, IN MY OPINION, put out a good cd since illmatic.

― DonWas, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link