describing israel as being like nazi germany
this is not anti-semitic btw
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, December 22, 2009 7:22 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark
perhaps not in itself, but as part of a bigger line of insinuation... it's an INTERESTING choice of comparison, isn't it, when zizek says israel describes gaza as a concentration camp and says it wants the land 'palestinian-frei'. one could choose other analogies than this.
― Dean Gaffney's December (history mayne), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:21 (fourteen years ago) link
It's trolling to admit being bored as hell by some long-assed tunes on a thread about not liking the artist in question?
haha sorry man shoulda put x-posts, was referring to the reviver of this thread
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:39 (fourteen years ago) link
still, it does rankle me to suggest an edited "Visions of Johanna"! I mean, the power of that song is the way it builds, you know?
― tylerw, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:42 (fourteen years ago) link
one could choose other analogies than this.
that's true, but the Nazi analogy packs the most rhetorical punch, combining the bitterest of ironies with the most strident of moral condemnations. but what do I know, I haven't even read the piece in question.
I'm just tired of criticism of Israel being treated as de facto anti-semitism, its just a dishonest tactic.
x-post
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:43 (fourteen years ago) link
x10
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:44 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean, someone who says that Visions should be edited down has gotta be a nazi, am i right?
― tylerw, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:46 (fourteen years ago) link
you are correct
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:47 (fourteen years ago) link
(then again, the Byrds' editing of "Chimes of Freedom" is pretty dead-on, I think I prefer their version. But that's not a fraction the song "Visions" is, of course).
― tylerw, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:49 (fourteen years ago) link
i totally don't understand what's going on here.
― jealous ones sb (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:53 (fourteen years ago) link
Bob Dylan owns diamond mines in Israel and is a nazi.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:54 (fourteen years ago) link
also his songs are too long
― tylerw, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:55 (fourteen years ago) link
Visions of Johanna is about Nazis
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:55 (fourteen years ago) link
diamond studded nazis
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:59 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't think there's been any mention of this on ILM, so ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCnHcqQFxPYBob playing with Van Dyke Parks and Ry Cooder! Would pay at least $15 for an album with these guys.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 20:59 (fourteen years ago) link
Jews and binoculars hang from the head of the mule
― America's Next Most Disabled Ballerina (WmC), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 21:09 (fourteen years ago) link
heres my story about Bob... My first encounter with the guy was with a track in the Natural Born Killers Soundtrack, as a typical teenager I was typically into most of the track on the compilation, but I thought at that time that bob dylan song ("you belong to me") was atrocious, that voice man, was like nails in a fucking chalkboard. he represented everything i hated about music and instantly got shelved in my head as what not to listen to.
Fast Forward 16 years later ... breaking up with my fiancee, up to my eyeballs in a shitty job, a layoff eventually. A friend of mine left Essential Bob Dylan in my stereo. "Jokerman", "Everything is Broken", "Not dark yet" and "Things Have Changed" and ("Im not There (1964)" not on that compilation though) just hitted the spot very nicely, its a great soundtrack when your seeing everything turn inside out, and you just crawl into a bottle of whisky.
Not everything the man has done is sold gold, but just give him a chance you might just eat your words like I did.
Hello from Mexicali Mexico
― soulDischarge_mxli, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 21:16 (fourteen years ago) link
hello! i think you make a good point. i don't even try to convince people that Bob Dylan is worth listening to anymore. sooner or later, it'll probably hit you.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 21:21 (fourteen years ago) link
or maybe it won't! who knows. but if/when it does, you're in for some great music.
T|S it's unfair that you legitimately complain about Israel without being called antisemitic V. You can't legitimately complain about Obama without being called racist -- which is the bigger ignorant challops GO!
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 22:06 (fourteen years ago) link
thread is mainly valuable in confirming n1ck s0uth4ll as valuable ilx contributor since 2002 imo
― Matt P, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 22:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Yay!
― Mark G, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 22:28 (fourteen years ago) link
does he still not like bob dylan?
― tylerw, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 22:31 (fourteen years ago) link
T|S it's unfair that you legitimately complain about Israel without being called antisemitic
I don't even know what this means
T/S challops vs. strawmen
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 22:39 (fourteen years ago) link
Blonde on Blonde is good seduction/sex music, honestly
― The reverse TARDIS of pasta (Niles Caulder), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 22:53 (fourteen years ago) link
I missed the "can't" but I'm not strawmanning here. If you can't see the difference between legitimate criticisms of Israel and calling Israel palestinina-frei or suggesting that bob dylan secret Israeli contacts hooked him up with an african diamond mine (which IMO is about an antisemitic statement as one can make -- the Jewish singer-songwriter is in cahoots with Israel to get rich off the backs of Africans? wtf??), then I don't know what to tell you.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 22:54 (fourteen years ago) link
Bah. Commenting on my iPhone is producing lots of typoes. <3 zing tho
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 22:55 (fourteen years ago) link
Icalling Israel palestinina-frei
^^^in bad taste but not necessarily anti-semitic as there are a lot of legitimate parallels between the ways the Nazis treated the Jews and the way the Israeli gov't treats the Palestinians.
suggesting that bob dylan secret Israeli contacts hooked him up with an african diamond mine
^^^this is totally anti-semitic because its a completely unfounded attack that is based on deliberate misinformation to reinforce a common Jewish stereotype
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 22:59 (fourteen years ago) link
Ok, I don't totally disagree with that distinction.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 23:01 (fourteen years ago) link
Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA.
― Matt P, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 23:11 (fourteen years ago) link
He's somewhere out on the highway right now drifting from town to town with eyes steel-grey and impenetrably deep, hunting like a great white wonder for some poor kid in a coffee shop - so easy to spot with their unkempt curly locks and dark sunglasses - some poor sapsucker who swallowed it hook line and sinker. The Man Who Doesn't Like Dylan is here and things will never be the same for any of us, anywhere.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 23:15 (fourteen years ago) link
listening to "bringing it all back home again" now. goddamn what a funny, funny album.
― strongohulkingtonsghost, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 23:27 (fourteen years ago) link
calling Israel palestinina-frei
not really, it's basically an offshoot of holocaust denial - not only are they not victims, jews are the real perpetrators! - and really shouldn't be touched with a bargepole by anyone with the slightest historical or political sense. newspapers in the middle east routinely run cartoons with hook-nosed, vampiric jews wearing stormtrooper helmets with a swastika and a star of david. why would you want to be associated with this shit? it's poisonous rhetoric and making the kind of distinctions you're talking about is like saying "but ronaldinho really does have big teeth!"
― joe, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 23:44 (fourteen years ago) link
i've read some years ago that he owned shares of diamond mines in south-africaDo you have a source for this?Suggest Ban Permalink― Duke, Dienstag, 22. Dezember 2009 19:19 (Yesterday) Bookmark
Do you have a source for this?
Suggest Ban Permalink― Duke, Dienstag, 22. Dezember 2009 19:19 (Yesterday) Bookmark
the source is my corroded memory reading a german print magazine (probably DER SPIEGEL) in the pre-internet era (before 1991). the reason why i still can remember this, is that i was pretty shocked at the time. i've spent the last 2 hours searching on google for a reference - sorry to say that i can not provide any.i have to admit that if someone else would came up with such a story without having any googleproof evidence...well, i would think he's a liar.
― meisenfek, Wednesday, 23 December 2009 01:07 (fourteen years ago) link
"googleproof evidence"
― meisenfek, Wednesday, 23 December 2009 01:09 (fourteen years ago) link
missed the "can't" but I'm not strawmanning here. If you can't see the difference between legitimate criticisms of Israel and calling Israel palestinina-frei or suggesting that bob dylan secret Israeli contacts hooked him up with an african diamond mine (which IMO is about an antisemitic statement as one can make -- the Jewish singer-songwriter is in cahoots with Israel to get rich off the backs of Africans? wtf??), then I don't know what to tell you.
xpost: i'm not aware that Bob has identified as a Jew since before he "turned Christian", anyways
― pobrecito (outdoor_miner), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 01:16 (fourteen years ago) link
not only are they not victims, jews are the real perpetrators! -
the contention that because someone was once a victim they cannot be perpetrators is wrong - its a fallacy, and its an intellectually dishonest way to defend Israel, in that it deflects attention from the matter at hand (Israel vs. Palestinians) and redirects it to a morally unassailable one (Jews vs. Nazis).
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 02:25 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah, i'm saying the israel=nazis argument didn't come from a bunch of liberals saying how sad it is that the jews are acting terribly when once they were victims (which certainly has been the case with israel); i'm saying the people who kicked off this line of argument believe the holocaust was a hoax designed to win sympathy for israel while it continues a genocidal campaign cunningly modelled on the very myth that jews supposedly endured.
i agree that it doesn't help to turn people away from the facts of the israel-palestine conflict and onto the morally unassailable case of jews under nazism, which is why i'm the one arguing that people shouldn't make those comparisons. you're the other guy, saying there are "legitimate parallels", albeit in reverse. can you see why there's a pretty ugly context to that line of argument?
― joe, Wednesday, 23 December 2009 03:05 (fourteen years ago) link
just an fyi, mordy otm, s-banning this guy
― V-E-R-Y (history mayne), Sunday, 14 February 2010 00:25 (fourteen years ago) link
i've read some years ago that dylan owned cans of Blue Diamond Bold Jalapeno Smokehouse almonds
― buzza, Saturday, 4 December 2010 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link
it just bugs, like an itch you can't scratch. I don't find much in the way of personal connection there, in fact really speaking none, maybe a song or two aside
otm
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 4 December 2010 22:25 (thirteen years ago) link
^ mostly
This is such a great thread. I love that long lyric that scott posted, whatever it is.
― Ismael Klata, Saturday, 4 December 2010 23:04 (thirteen years ago) link
I have "personal connections" with few artists though.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 4 December 2010 23:11 (thirteen years ago) link
scott seward otm for most of this thread too