jessica hopper wrote a lengthy diss in the reader this week, not online yet.
― not a playa but i ilx a lot (deej), Thursday, January 28, 2010 5:05 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark
yippee, better put that in google alerts.
― free the charmless but occasionally brilliant Dom Passantino (history mayne), Thursday, 28 January 2010 13:42 (fourteen years ago) link
It can't be as good as Julianne Shepherd's 2008 diss.
― Blue Fucks Like Ben Nelson (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 January 2010 14:12 (fourteen years ago) link
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/vampire-weekend-contra-review-indie-rock-appropriation-ezra-koenig/Content?oid=1358299
:D :D :D
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:19 (fourteen years ago) link
i love this
If this all makes Contra seem like a fuckless episode of Gossip Girl written by Jimmy Buffett, then I've made my point.
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:22 (fourteen years ago) link
point has been made a million times before but vw arent really aping african sounds, theyre aping paul simon and peter gabriels aping of african sounds
― max, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:23 (fourteen years ago) link
It is a perfect slam.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:23 (fourteen years ago) link
Indie rockers are supposed to be grubby proles
not really
― velko, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:24 (fourteen years ago) link
i like that her angle is that the band's playing dumb re: class grates more than them actually being whatever class they are, and the paragraph gutting their actual music is awesomely satisfying to read
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:26 (fourteen years ago) link
haha the gossip girl line is pretty funny
― Dr. Goon Medicine Woman (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:31 (fourteen years ago) link
but i wouldn't worry about the state of indie rock grubbiness, the beard era of the 00s brought new heights of dudes lookin' all stinkin and bummy
(with spuds mackenzie glasses to let you know that they aren't *actual* homeless)
― Dr. Goon Medicine Woman (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:32 (fourteen years ago) link
Still way more on board with the idea of them self-consciously playing with class signifiers in their lyrics, even if they avoid/"play dumb" about the issue in interviews. And so I don't think it has to be either pure satire or pure affection for their subjects, because it's somewhere slightly in between.
― weird et al (fucking in the streets), Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:37 (fourteen years ago) link
Nevertheless, Koenig insists that Vampire Weekend are not what they seem—that their lyrics are pure satire. Well, maybe the fact that so few people can tell the difference between their supposed lampooning of affluence and genuine fascination with it is a sign that they need to sharpen their game.
so few? isn't everyone everywhere congratulating themselves for getting the joke? besides, the combination of lampooning and fascination is...the point. i mean, this is an easy call, everybody reads fitzgerald in high school. this para is basically 'hi i'm jessica hopper and i have been trolled'
― goole, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:37 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean, this is an easy call, everybody reads fitzgerald in high school.
Only read Gatsby last year, FWIW. Wasn't quite as stellar as I'd been led to believe.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:44 (fourteen years ago) link
even if they avoid/"play dumb" about the issue in interviews.
of course they MUST be "playing" dumb, these are boys of fine upper class stock
― Dr. Goon Medicine Woman (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:53 (fourteen years ago) link
tomorrow ned will run faster
that's not really that good of a slam
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:53 (fourteen years ago) link
Vampire Weekend are about as African as Animal Collective is rave—parts are there, but not the whole.
lol why is this a problem/issue/criticism?
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:54 (fourteen years ago) link
Man, that's just a rehash of years-old arguments that barely apply to their actual music. It's a dialogue about a dialogue that kind of resonates and echo chambers around because detractors want it to. I don't hear almost any appropriation in their music save a few songs, certainly not more than many of their contemporaries. The difference, which Jessica correctly notes, is class. Nobody in the world would complain about Timbaland (who is far more wealthy than VW mind you) or some punk band on K Records appropriating third-world music. For some reason, the realities of multiculturalism and having a discussion about class isn't something you get to be part of if you're middle class and white. And especially if you're indie, I guess, for no other reason I can tell other than the author wants to paint indie in a specific light.
So at least she does some close reading, but then comes to the conclusions she wants to, e.g. "Koenig is trying to have it both ways—to be the mocking outsider while telegraphing his exact position as an upper-class white aesthete through references that connote unfettered living and heavy beach play." Uh, he's not "trying to have it both ways" he's conflicted. Like his distractors. And a lot of indie kids. And the people writing these pieces: Conflicted about class, education, wealth, appreciating other cultures and when that lapses into tourism.
If anything, VW are up front about it, writing about their real world, instead of the trad indie/"artist" romanticization of a lack of success or hiding inside of a fantasy of another world, which is a lot more condescending and insulting to my mind. I don't see how this is "escapist fantasy about wealth" at all; it seems like just the opposite-- being aware of both class and first-world wealth and possessions, conflicted about how we're defined by possessions and personal brands, acknowledging those conflicts. And it seems very Now actually.
Even if the whole "oh no appropriation" thing was somehow valid, and I never have thought it was the case, it's just something grafted onto four guys here who in the grand scheme of things are *barely* more wealthy than any of the rest of us. The issue isn't that VW have less right to give a shit about African music as we do. The average wage for someone in, say, Congo, to take an actual example from that piece, is $40 a month. Me and you and Jessica Hopper and most anyone in the U.S. or UK, even on govt dependance or govt housing, is as relatively removed from that as Ezra Koenig. But Ezra Koening wears boat shoes, so he's the faker and we're not
The difference isn't that Ezra Koenig shouldn't be "allowed" to show interest in African music (which is some closed-off, let's-ignore-the-third-world bs in the first place anyway), it's that a lot of indie kids (and Hopper, despite the noise, is rooted in these scenes too) don't want to be associated with someone preppy, or with marginally more money than they have. They want to slum it. And, again, *that's* the problem.
― scottpl, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:55 (fourteen years ago) link
indie rockers are supposed to be grubby proles, not graduates of Columbia University, and front man Ezra Koenig obviously knows it.
this is just complete fucking bullshit
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:55 (fourteen years ago) link
indie rockers are supposed to be grubby proles, not graduates of Columbia University
HI DERE
http://thosegeese.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/malko.jpg
http://www.pettediscographies.com/images/SP180slv.jpg
― Dr. Goon Medicine Woman (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:58 (fourteen years ago) link
malk went to uva
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:58 (fourteen years ago) link
every fuckin indie rocker went to college!
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:59 (fourteen years ago) link
xpost
It is bullshit. It's wildly crazy. It's as anti-intellectual and anti-aspirational as the crap you get from some parts of the RW in this country. Hopper (and many others) are basically blasting VW with the indie rock version of the same "elitist"/arugula-eating bs arguments people actually lob at Obama/Kerry, etc.
― scottpl, Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:59 (fourteen years ago) link
there's a big difference between college and Ivy League in NYC though
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, 28 January 2010 17:59 (fourteen years ago) link
i think all of this posturing would probably go away if VW were actually, you know, an okay band. at best they're like hopper says, they sound like a CVB b-side without the Reagan jokes
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:00 (fourteen years ago) link
ABOUT $15,000 WORTH OF DIFFERENCE, AM I RIGHT?
xp
― max, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:00 (fourteen years ago) link
i like vw because they make their critics so uncomfortable while i'm just like man these are some catchy tunes huh
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:00 (fourteen years ago) link
i like the part of the review about why they suck, not so much the part about why they're culturally offensive
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:00 (fourteen years ago) link
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, January 28, 2010 1:00 PM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
kind of think the only reason anyone cares is because theyre a pretty good band
right, and hopper doesn't think they're an okay band
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:02 (fourteen years ago) link
nah not really
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:02 (fourteen years ago) link
Like his distractors.
You know, I like this a LOT more than 'detractors!' I think you just coined a neologism, Scott.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:02 (fourteen years ago) link
so the thing is you're wrong, they're not a good band, you should download some fugazi
they're settling becuz Koenig's a better Sting Costello than Patrick Stump reading Pete Wentz journals.
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:02 (fourteen years ago) link
The band's Afropopisms are flourishes, no more central to the music than its whiffs of late-80s electro
why is this a criticism?
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:03 (fourteen years ago) link
they're no style council
― Dr. Goon Medicine Woman (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:03 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean, i don't think Hopper is really saying "indie rockers are supposed to be grubby proles," but is saying that's the common line of thinking
― ben bernankles (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:03 (fourteen years ago) link
ha, of course ned, thx...I should stop firing this crap off w/o a second look
― scottpl, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:03 (fourteen years ago) link
what university did haircut 100 go to?
― velko, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:04 (fourteen years ago) link
ok but since she doesn't reject that position it seems like she supports it?
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:05 (fourteen years ago) link
― call all destroyer, Thursday, January 28, 2010 6:02 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
okay.
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:05 (fourteen years ago) link
i literally have never heard anyone claim in any capacity that indie rock is grubby prole music
How is "Ivy League" a bad thing to some people? Do you guys sneering at it use the phrase "real America" too?
― scottpl, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:06 (fourteen years ago) link
Vidal Sassoon?
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:06 (fourteen years ago) link
I was pissed when bands stopped dressing like ex-GBV members around the time Belle & Sebastian got big but man, that was a while ago
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:07 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean hoppers coming from a whole different world of what "indie" meant than vamp week
― Dr. Goon Medicine Woman (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:07 (fourteen years ago) link
totally
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:07 (fourteen years ago) link
btw i really hope you will all help me spread "vamp week" as kinda a "BOC" or "the nuge" type foreshortening of this band's name
― Dr. Goon Medicine Woman (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:08 (fourteen years ago) link
more like vamp weak
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:09 (fourteen years ago) link