― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:49 (nineteen years ago) link
well, context is key here, and the lines between the contexts are very blurry and up for vastly different interpretations for each, I'll agree. Had this been an original song where she used the n-word, I would be far more suspicious and likely offended, I admit. but since we all know she is covering a song, she's using the n-word because the original song used it. if she changed the n-words, I would personally be more offended, because then she would be projecting her personal politics into the cover, whether PC or not. And surely, that would have caused FAR more outrage in this thread if she had done that than leaving the n-words in there.
― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:49 (nineteen years ago) link
What are the Stephen Malkmus or Stephin Merritt rap covers?
Malkmus doesn't need covers, he's got ironic rap originals under his belt (At Home With The Groovebox to thread)
― kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:50 (nineteen years ago) link
~ Horseshit. I like and own albums by both NWA and Veruca Salt.
"mark, when you're rapping along to something at home, do you sound a bleep or substitute an inoffensive word such as "knitter"? -- noodle vague (noodle_vagu...), January 20th, 2005 1:43 PM."
~ No, but then again, I don't post MP3s of myself using potentially touchy language on websites with no explanation.
"and come to think of it, now that he's a rich rapper and making multimillion dollar movies, Ice Cube himself is not even entitled to do that song anymore, as it no longer represents his situation. How does that sound? -- King Kobra (doctorduc...), January 20th, 2005 1:16 PM."
~ Like the makings of an irrelevant and ridiculous straw man.
"NWA are political in a sense so loose that it's virtually meaningless."
~ Maybe you weren't around when "Fuck the Police" was being editorialized on throughout the media?
― Chuckling at the Tomkat's Marquee (Ben Boyer), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link
No problem. I'm just a little mystified (in general with listeners, not just you, Spencer) when projections are placed upon the motives of the artist for covering a song in a style that happens to be in a completely different genre, when the listeners don't really know what the motives for covering the song were/are. That issue just never phased me and still never phases me. If i like the cover, i like it. If I don't, I don't. And that's where I leave it.
― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― Chuckling at the Tomkat's Marquee (Ben Boyer), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link
What about Pavement's cover of The Fall's "The Classical" and the elimination of said n-word in the cover? Was that a travesty? Or a smart move?
― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:55 (nineteen years ago) link
[xposts galore]
― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link
dc... At some point in the near future you should bring your best Kid of Widney High impersonation to my studio, and we will record this. The b-side will be our Faux Kids of Widney High cover of the Chili Peppers' "Suck My Kiss."
We will make a mint selling these as downloadable tracks online!
― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― .ada.m. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― Chuckling at the Tomkat's Marquee (Ben Boyer), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:59 (nineteen years ago) link
Maybe she only did the first verse cuz it's the most 'powerful' (ie, memorable) one? I mean, the Kid 606 remix is also only the Ice Cube verse, nobody complained aboot that (I actually preferred it that way, cuz I didn't hafta hear him ruin the whole song). (xpost)
― Vic Funk, Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― Chuckling at the Tomkat's Marquee (Ben Boyer), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:04 (nineteen years ago) link
No. It's a slightly different word, spelled and pronounced differently.
THE PROBLEM is that she is pronouncing the word as 'Niggers'. Which is something that no one does without getting looked at funny, regardless of whichever race you happen to be. The fact that she's white and saying this makes me flinch.
― (Jon L), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:06 (nineteen years ago) link
But you do realize that Dre was strapped with gats when you were cuddlin' a Cabbage Patch, right?
― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― .ada.m. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:09 (nineteen years ago) link
I think you mean "wearing eyeliner"
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link
Context, once again. Look at those list of songs.. they all seem to be songs that were big in the year 1988, 89, or 1990 or so... Skid Row? Cinderella? NWA? All huge in a very small time period. To me, I think she just chose songs she remembered from a certain time in her life... I don't know how old she is, but it must have been "a time" for her, or something. So, her choosing to cover NWA seems to (and I stress "seems to") stem from that moreso than "I'm going to be controversial, fuck yeah, niggaz!". Then again, I don't know. You don't know. She may have had the worst motives for covering the song. The point is..: we.. don't... know. So, some of us will assume the worst, some of us will be suspicious, and some of us will not be so suspicious. I'm in the latter category. I guess you're in the middle category.
I have absolutely no concern about what her intentions were to cover the song. The end result is the problem and I've explained why enough I think.
Of course you don't have any concerns about it, because you don't know her intentions (unless you personally know her, which I'm guessing you don't :) ). But I'm just musing on how listeners in general (and I used to be guilty of this, too) listen to the "end results" -- a listener's first listen of a cover -- and then often automatically make assumptions about the motives for covering the song that go beyond "well, we, uh, like the song." Not singling you out, Spencer.. a lot of people do that, but I don't. Maybe I'm just the anomaly here.
― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link
xpost?
― .ada.m. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:18 (nineteen years ago) link
uhm no. don't make me post pictures of Dre's days in the World Class Wrecking Cru. None of NWA were actual hardcore "gangster" types, with the debatable exception of Eazy, who was a low-level coke dealer.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bob Six (bobbysix), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:20 (nineteen years ago) link
Okay, I maybe over-identified with Manowar when I was 14.
― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:20 (nineteen years ago) link
Nah, I know... My comment is a paraphrase of a lyric on the second Chronic, wherein Dre claims exactly what I've stated.
― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:24 (nineteen years ago) link
"Love Vigilantes" has been covered several different times by folk-inclined people for, as best as can be told, pretty much the reasons outlined. The Oyster Band cover comes to mind.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link
I do! And I think this cover is awful too!
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link
Generalizations make me wanna honour the fire. EAT STEEL, MAGGOTS!
― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:32 (nineteen years ago) link
Well, I'm not sure that's what Spencer was exactly saying, actually. Furthermore, I would never assume any acoustic cover of an electronic/hip hop song would be motivated to "validate" the song for people who dislike electronic/hip hop music... unless the artist explicitly stated so, and I've never heard about any artist who has said or admitted that.
But I do agree there are listeners out there who have to have such covers validated for them, no doubt. But is it fair to blame the artists for that?
Similarly, there are people who have to have acoustic/classic rock songs "validated" for them with electronic/hip hop treatments too.
― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:32 (nineteen years ago) link
2001, yo! Dizaaaamn!
I like it for completely different reasons than the original Chronic. It has it's moments. The line I quoted is one of the finer ones.
― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:36 (nineteen years ago) link
http://www.yopi.de/images/prod_pics/45/e/45414.jpg
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Chuckling at the Tomkat's Marquee (Ben Boyer), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:41 (nineteen years ago) link