Jay-Z / Nas hip-hop throw down? & other throw-downs?

But jazz is hard to follow; I mean you actually have to like jazz to follow it; and my motto is, never follow anything. But my post follows your post, so I've just revealed myself as a hypocrite. If there's a moral here, it's that real isn't something to copy, it's something to create. And by the way, you did spell decision right.

#1 To whoever said Pac ain't one of the best when it comes to lyrics, you r wrong. He had it from the start of his rap career to the end. PAIN--steady thuggin' in the streets/ and i'll be ballin' loc/ don't let'em make you worry/ keep swingin' at these suckas till you buried/ i was born to raise hell, a nigga from the gutta,/ with a motha on drugs/ i'm kickin dust up/ ready ta bust/ i'm on the scene/ steady muggin' mean /until they kill me/ i'll be livin this life/ i know you feel me. One of his last UNTIL THE END OF TIME--- Perhaps I was addicted to tha dark side/ Some where inside my childhood I missed my heart die / And even though we both came from tha same places /Tha money and tha fame made us all change places /Could it be through tha misery/ They can't get past?/ The hard times make a true friend afraid to ask/ for currency but you can run to me when you need it/.... It never stop, when my mama ask me will I change/ I tell her yeah but it's clear I'll always be tha same/.... Remain strong in this planet full of playa hataz/ They conversate but Death Row full of demonstrators/ And in tha end drinkin' henassy/ made all my enemies envy me/ So cold when I flow eliminatin' easily/ Fall to they knees, they plead for they right to breath / While beggin' me to keep tha peace haha/ What I can see closer to achieve/ In times of danger don't freeze time to be a G/ Follow my lead I supply everything you need/ An ounce of game and tha trainin' to make a G'/ Remember me? No disrespect but do your homework cuz. #2 Whoever wanted to bring Nelly, Luda, and Mystcal into the debate ...you r str8 up tripin. That's all I'll say on them; they don't even get half a bar from me. #3 Don Was, I agree with you to a point dogg, but why does one person have to stick to one style? How come Nas can't do some thug songs and then do some Puff songs too? I feel you on an artist being true, but why can't he try it all without being lable a seelout. I'm not sayin you said this, but we shouldn't pigion hold people. Besides it ain't one rapper that I can think of that has a CD with nothing but HARDCORE songs, I said it before, u gotta put out a few MTV songs. I know many disagree, but u can't have it both ways. Some are going by the sales. Okay, well the MTV songs sale. But if Nas keeps it all street then it won't sale as many and then peeps say "It only sold half a mil." And Jay has put out many less than hardcore songs why isn't he called out for that? Izzo, and Girls, Girls. I like em both but if y'all goin say Nas fell off with "Hate me now" remember it goes both ways. Holla. Qoolout of D.C. baby

this battle is nice, like someone said before i hope it dosent turn violent, anyways as far as greatest lyricist, i got to give it to RAKIM...THE MASTER!

Jay-Z ate Nas ass up. Me and my boy just listened to that shit, and we LOVED when Kay called two of Nas' albums "doo!" That shit's hilarious! Second, Jay-Z will never be the King of NY. It's still Biggie - 5 years after his death. Jay-Z is the king of hip-pop, which is not necessarily a diss. I like Jay-Z a lot, but I recognize that 90% of his success is based on collabos (whoever's hot at the time) and production. Timbaland, Dr. Dre, DJ Premier, Swizz Beatz, the Neptunes, etc. all produce his songs. How can they NOT be hits? He's nice lyrically, but with such great production he doesn't have to really try. 2Pac is without a doubt the greatest rapper of all time. He ate the East Coast alive on Hit Em Up, then he ate them up (along with gay ass Dre) on Makaveli. As a rapper, 2Pac stands alone at the top. Biggie was a great lyricist, but his delivery was nowhere near Pac's. Nor Nas, Jay-Z, or Jada or anybody. The reason Pac is the best is because he can take any lyric and any beat and make it a hit. I mean if I wrote a song, and I had Big, Jay-Z, Pac, DMX, Eminem, Meth, Red, whoever perform what I wrote, Pac would make it sound the best. No one else can do that. Especially not monotone Jay-Z or snot in the throat Biggie. Eminem comes the closest to combining lyrics and delivery like Pac. Another thing, I'm from the South. Our lyrics may not be all that, but that South thrives on production and delivery or basically, making your head bob. If you ain't bankhead bouncin when you hear a song, then take that shit out the South. And if you notice, that's why nobody talks about king of the South because there's so many rappers with hits. Outkast, UGK, Three 6, 8ball, Timbaland, Master P, Ludacris, Jermaine Dupri, and all of the one hit wonders. The South is where it's at. So in closing 2Pac reigns, with BIG and Eminem following (don't hate on the white boy) and the South makes you bounce. We ain't worried about weak ass poetry with music. P.S. Mos Def, Black Thought, Common, PMonch, and all those earthy Erykah Badu's little sons bastards all sound the same - extremely dick in he bootie.

Ally, more like 12 year old white males

Can someone give me the 411 on Jay-Z . Dont know nothing bout him.

What do you want to know?

I agree with everything Hillis 3000 said.

Let me just re-iterate. Tupac did nothing for rap, where can you hear his influence now? Where? Nowhere because noone is willing to reproduce the sort of cheesey loungey, Mariah Carey without lyrics type beats he had and his pretentious bastard Rose from Concrete Makiveli bullshit. Was his voice anything particularly special? Hardly. Cemented the gangsta posturing??? Hardly ,it was well in place by the time his day came along. In case you didnt know Tupac is up with Aphex Twin on my hate list.

I like the quality of Biggie's voice more (small diff. w/H3K) and you have to hand it to him for creating his own scene. But 2Pac was more vulnerable than Biggie. You could hear it in his voice, that he was struggling. It takes guts to bare yourself like that on record. Somehow the way Biggie invested in his own myth didn't allow him to. Self-doubting rap = more to relate to (for this hed).

I keep telling ya lame niggad that Jay-z And Nas is Lame Fabolous is the nigga ya should be talking about Ghetto Fabolous is better than the Blueprints

Don, I'm not too familiar with either Jay Z or Nas's oeuvre but in your professional opinion which one could walk the dinosaur?

Are the Fabolous songs without Nate Dogg on them anywhere near as good as the single that's out now? Somehow I doubt it.

Fabulous is average at best, his flow is suspect, his delivery is nothing to get excited about, and the only good thing he has done musically is steal a hook from 2Pac and have Nate Dogg guest star - both of which have been done before, so the bastard isn't even original.

Ronan this is for you. 1st of all, Pac has all of the sterotypes because 80% of the people out have copied him. Master P and cash money and a lot of others are wanna be Pacs. Even those who don't str8 up bite him, have used some of his lines. Like Jay-Z, "not a demon, but a rose in the cement," or another Jay Z line "You wasn't using it right, you made it a hot line, I made it a hot song," Pac already said that, "Yeah I took y'alls beat, you wasn't rockin it right." Second, you say "what did he do for rap?" He did too much for me to try to explain it dogg. Like I said before, you need to do your homework. What rapper made an entire song about his mother before Pac did it? Scarface (maybe) is the only one I can think of. Now just about all of them wanna do it. Who was saying that they was a Thug before Pac made it popular? Now every single so called hardcore rapper has to say "I'm a Thug." And you can't hold Pac responible for "Rose in the cement." If it was bad, don't say Pac put out a bad CD. He didn't produce that, and he did decide who would read and flow on there. Tell me if Pac is so bad, who is it that you like? Nines times outta ten, you'll say someone who probably copied Pac. And to the person who says Ghetto Fab is better than Blueprints... I'm not gonna touch that statment. I'll let someone else handle that. Holla, Qoolout

And another thing... Ronan, this may be cliched but, put down the Haterade. I bet you're one of them niggas who don't like Jordan, says Shaq has no skill, thinks Iverson is a thug, swears Randy Moss is overrated, and thinks Wayne Chrebet is better than Keyshawn.

I agree with the guy who said Rakim. 2Pac was the thug and Biggie was the king, Nas is the poet and Jigga is the pop king, but yall need to remember: RAKIM WAS THE GOD. If he was in his prime today, with the production today's rappers get, yall heads would be spinning because nobody could flow so nice as the god Rakim. If you don't own up to this you don't have hip-hop love or knowledge.

As for Jay v Nas, Nas maybe had more talent than Jay originally, but face it Nas fans, after Illmatic it has gone to waste. In '95 you had an argument based on lyrical skills but not anymore, and the only reason people say he is better than Jay is because they are HOVA HATIN. A lot of you people who were noddin to the shit on Vol 2, yeah even Hard Knock! don't lie to me nigga, I saw you in the club! turned around and started hatin Jay when Vol 2 blew up.

Look at it: most everyone knows Nas has lost the lyrical depth, and everyone agrees he can't put together club tracks as hot as Jay. J puts out "Izzo" and hatas call it pop sellout but they forget that Nas put out shit like "K.I.S.S.I.N.G." which is just an attempt to copy Jiggaman and turn pop, but its not as hot a track for the club as Jay can make and lyrically it is pure garbage. Jay has put out some weak shit at times but never anything as sad as "K.I.S.S.I.N.G."

Roc-a-wear does suck tho. My boy got some and it fell apart. Peace.

my, my, have things gotten ugly here. i think what many are not quite following is the point that nas has not, IN MY OPINION, put out a good cd since illmatic.

― DonWas, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link