Justice - † Pretentious symbol = french dance?

scene, obv.

I feel quite safe in saying: YALL R GAY

Tim Finney, myself, and The Lex will not tolerate your hate speech on ILM. We have not and will not charge you a cent and you're free to take your business elsewhere. I'd rather not call the police, but if you insist on continuing to disturb our guests I will. Please leave.

muscles is a former (very minor) ilx troll.

No way!!!

ILM needs to get out more.

The ribbing of Justice here is pretty mild.

Plus I think it's worth considering that Mylo and Headman had their biggest hits in 2004. That's three years ago so to expect some sort of consistency between people who liked them, then, when you could expect to hear Mylo in the middle of Tiefschwarz, the Knife, the Rapture etc (and this was a genuinely new and interesting DJing style), to like Justice now seems a little off to me.

Not least because, Justice sound nothing like Mylo or Headman. Plus it's obvious why people don't like Justice, if you look at what the people disliking them are listening to now.

That plus, if you lived in Europe Vahid you'd understand! (or Melbourne seemingly!)

"it's obvious why people don't like Justice, if you look at what the people disliking them are listening to now"

it's really not obvious to me

I don't get out enough to actually hear this kind of music in the specific clubs/at parties you would hear it at. I'm LDN-ILM (ha, separate board?) but don't reject them (I like them about as much as Mylo).

i like em more than i liked Mylo, who i thought was mostly meh.

"ILM needs to get out more."

Spencer I don't think you'd like the Muscles track. Although (what I think is) the Bag Raiders remix is quite good. Sometimes this stuff gets emotional and straightforward in a manner reminiscent of Cosmos's "Take Me With You", which i can't help but be sympathic towards.

tim he was calling himself "idle idle", i would search for stuff but the search sucks now. he liked the last sean paul album!

what was headman's hit??

"birth school work death"?

The Headman DJ mix on Eskimo was pretty good! I discovered Ed Laliq's "Drowning" and New Fast Automatic Daffodils by listening to it.

I have vague recollections of idle idle. A quick google search reveals he was also underwhelmed by Lindstrom & Prins Thomas.

He's not a bad musician actually (the production is occasionally good-winsome) but the song is intolerable.

Mylo was fucking awful and had street teamers spray-painting up half of Glasgow with his bullshit. Teuchter fuck.

the first time Muscles posted on ILM was a "listen to this remix I just made" - three people said "your home-computer glitching of this pop song is not especially good", and he erupted in a flurry of "I just made it last night in three hours and I'm over it now maaaan, don't pin me down with your preconceptions." Later he posted on a thread to say "People still listen to techno?"

It was kind of an in-between stage in his career, following trolling M&N hard for years about seducing his parents' maid, and before touring the US supporting Soulwax.

1" Badge Pin got a fluxblog blowjob about a year ago, too.

It was kind of an in-between stage in his career, following trolling M&N hard for years about seducing his parents' maid, and before touring the US supporting Soulwax.

'Haircut electro' is a silly term because electro has been haircut music since what, 2002, and is probably less haircut than at any point in the last few years.

Plus I think it's worth considering that Mylo and Headman had their biggest hits in 2004. That's three years ago so to expect some sort of consistency between people who liked them, then, when you could expect to hear Mylo in the middle of Tiefschwarz, the Knife, the Rapture etc (and this was a genuinely new and interesting DJing style), to like Justice now seems a little off to me.

I'm having trouble with this, it doesn't seem especially obvious to me. If only because the biggest DJing proponent of that whole Justice sound is Erol (his sets are like 75% this stuff now), and he was also pretty central to that whole Rapture/Tiefschwarz/Knife/Mylo thing you talk about.

Maybe it's because electrohouse c. 2004-05 felt like a big unifier in dance music, it hooked people who were into all sorts of shit. And that audience seems to have split into two now - the people who were into the more restrained, shinier stuff eg Get Physical have gone down the minimal route, others who were more into, say Washing Up or Rocker have gravitated towards this Verynoisyelectro sound.

(and this was a genuinely new and interesting DJing style)

haha WAHT

ronan you know i love you but that is straight up "this is the first time i have heard eclectic DJing and my mind is BLOWN" scorched-earth revisionism

Maybe I'm biased because frankly I'd take any peak 2004-era electrohouse over all this Justice/Simian stuff and maybe 90% of minimal too.

Rapture - Tiefschwarz - Knife - Mylo isn't particularly eclectic by the way. At the time they all felt like part of the same thing - especially when you consider some of the biggest tunes were Ewan Pearson/Tiefschwarz/Rex The Dog/Mylo remixes of prominentish artists like the Rapture or the Knife.

i did forget 2004, yeah

"If only because the biggest DJing proponent of that whole Justice sound is Erol (his sets are like 75% this stuff now)"

why is ILM (london/uk/w/vs) so anti it then. i'm no blog hound looking for stuff so my view of how music is being taken on board is highly ILM skewed. it's nice to hear that it's just the old granddads on here that are the hataz

Haha old grandads like the Lex.

Old grandads like 22 year old me.

grandadism is a state of mind

old is a feeling.

Next question: why is this dance music rather than previous examples provoking a grandpa reaction among so many?

(e.g. strongo you were being very grandpa about electrohouse circa 2004 - "it's just slowed down trance innit" etc. - why then and not now? Not being accusatory, but I'm interested in the distinction)

'Haircut electro' is a silly term because electro has been haircut music since what, 2002, and is probably less haircut than at any point in the last few years.

of course it's a silly term. i disagree that it is less haircutty now than it was tho. people still insist on having haircuts.

In Melbourne the divide has really been three ways, b/w erm indieclash (which i think steve uses "haircut electro"), commercial electro-house (where the more impressive haircuts are - this is stuff like TV Rock) and minimal etc. The divide between the first two esp. is really hazy - I get the impression that dedicated commercial electro-house nights will play indieclash and some minimal (the Get Physical end esp. if it counts) but neither indieclash nor minimal nights will play any commercial electro-house.

commercial electro-house = "haircut house"

why then and not now?

mostly because i don't hear this as electro-house! i think it's much more in line with the whole post-2000 united states trend towards playing "whatever"; go out on a friday night to a non-aligned dance club in america and you will DJs spinning justice-style stuff alongside cut-and-run hip-hop and pop remixes, baltimore club, old daft punk, big beat, switch and jesse rose style shit, basically anything that ISNT tiefschwarz/black strobe-style electro-house.

to be perfectly honest with you, i still hate 75-80% of "blog house" but i just think this is a really good electronic pop/dance album. i have a kind of pet theory about it that i am developing for my justice review (namely that the internet has allowed people the access to make their own "made-in-two-minutes"-style tracks and remixes but at the same time it's INSTANTLY ARCHIVED all this shit that might be mind-blowing in a two-minute segue or juxtaposition on a friday night but does not really need to exist in a clean, full-length mp3 saved forever and ever) but it's still pretty inchoate at the moment.

i.e. i think justice are part of a generation of french kids who grew up in a world where they never knew anything BUT electronic dance music/house/rave (think about it...if they're in their mid- to late-20s at this point, they were 15 or 16 when homework droppped...i don't think it's a coincidence that i've read reports of justice dropping fat of the land-era prodigy tracks in their sets) and so they've grown up listening to rock and rap but it's all been filtered through this electronic/clubbing culture. it's no wonder it comes out sounding like heavy metal daft punk and not masters at work.

might be worth re-reading the MSTRKRFT thread at this point.

or maybe suicide lol.

on that thread you can see my hatred towards blog house soften in timelapse

i'm actually listening to "waters of nazareth" again right now and wondering if i DO actually hate this stuff unreservedly.

-- Bea Arthur - Lost COmic GEnius ? (dubplatestyle), Sunday, June 25, 2006

i have seriously mellowed on this stuff, btw

-- shabba ranks (dubplatestyle), Monday, October 9, 2006 7:50 PM (7 months ago) Bookmark Link

i think it might be because it's ALL I'VE HEARD when i've gone out this year. this stuff and that baile funk track with the DURN-DUH-DUH-DUH horn fanfare.

-- shabba ranks (dubplatestyle), Monday, October 9, 2006 7:53 PM (7 months ago) Bookmark Link

i kinda LIKE the "let's all jump up and down" aspect of it

-- shabba ranks (dubplatestyle), Monday, October 9, 2006 7:53 PM

that "baile funk" track turned out to be "a bit patchy," sigh

ronan you know i love you but that is straight up "this is the first time i have heard eclectic DJing and my mind is BLOWN" scorched-earth revisionism

-- strongohulkington, Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:52 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

of course it's not new in the grand scheme of things (disco etc) but relative to what had come before (and what came after) it was quite fresh.

there was an absence of any one dominant thing at that time and it was interesting, and rare. how long before that kind of waiting period happens again?

Rapture - Tiefschwarz - Knife - Mylo isn't particularly eclectic by the way. At the time they all felt like part of the same thing - especially when you consider some of the biggest tunes were Ewan Pearson/Tiefschwarz/Rex The Dog/Mylo remixes of prominentish artists like the Rapture or the Knife.

it's a little muddy because when the 2004 stuff came along that would be what I'd call "electrohouse", and that was mostly quite dancey, but there was a time of overlap between the sort of "waiting for dance music to return time of 2003" and electrohouse.

also as far as I recall people played a lot of stuff that was sort of "classic" from 2003 and 2002 amongst the 2004 stuff, because it took a while for people at the clubs to start liking and knowing "House of the Jealous Lovers" or "Losing My Edge". even though these were older they needed some kind of dance infrastructure to support them, and there hadn't been one at the time of their release.

I look back at that time as one when not so many people had a lot to say about dance and there weren't too many new fans. it was like dance became sort of eclectic pop for a while. and it was actually quite fun. but now that aesthetic just seems forced, since there is plenty of good techno and house around, and also old. the new acts aren't any better, in my opinion than the original wave, and are generally more rock orientated.

I'm having trouble with this, it doesn't seem especially obvious to me. If only because the biggest DJing proponent of that whole Justice sound is Erol (his sets are like 75% this stuff now), and he was also pretty central to that whole Rapture/Tiefschwarz/Knife/Mylo thing you talk about.

what I meant was, it was 3 years ago, tastes change first and foremost. and also that I just don't think there is a great similarity between Justice etc and the first year of electrohouse (remember how italo influenced some of that was)

actually doesn't Jess nail a confederate flag to his desk everytime someone mentions italo?

x-post to jess, this is all making more sense now, I agree it's not a continuation of electrohouse, that was pretty much my point above.

Weird, it definitely is over here, and you don't hear this stuff mixed up with other stuff at all! It's just wall to wall grinding synth riffs.

actually, this is a little tricky. I guess you can trace it back to 2004 electrohouse. but that's such a long time that certainly it doesn't sound exactly the same IMO, and so it's understandable I think that lots of people don't like it.

wtf are you all talking about? 90% of ths stuff uses Homework and Analog Worms Attack as its guide. 2004 era electrohouse is what it's trying to escape, 1997 era Daft Punk is what it's successfully recreated. Basically, if you don't like Homework or "Flat Beat" era Mr.Oizo, you don't like the new french dance.

how many tracks on this album are 4/4 house tempo?

no more or less than number of 4/4 tracks on a theo parrish or moodymann album

leave those jazz-funk greats out of this

Tim, have you ever been to a 'Brains' night? From what I've heard that would be the best thing ever.

And that audience seems to have split into two now - the people who were into the more restrained, shinier stuff eg Get Physical have gone down the minimal route, others who were more into, say Washing Up or Rocker have gravitated towards this Verynoisyelectro sound.

i don't get this at all! i mean...we, and everyone we know, loved 'washing up' and 'rocker' and vitalic in 04/05, and mostly veered towards minimal (yeah yeah lock tavern obsession, but that's v much "love/hate the scene, hate/hate the music").

also i'm pretty sure the people on this thread hating on justice go to more parties than the people repping for them.

what lex is saying is ...

do you party?

also i'm pretty sure the people on this thread hating on justice go to more parties than the people repping for them.

-- lex pretend, Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:12 PM (7 minutes ago)

i'm pretty sure paris hilton goes to more parties than anybody on ILX