Does anyone REALLY like My Bloody Valentine?

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And yeah Curve I can't place in that genre at all, even though they were there at the time. They were if anything a precursor to bands like Garbage.

― Trayce, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 11:49 (seventeen years ago) link

What I think of as 'shoegaze' derives entirely from modern retrospect. I wasn't 'there', no, so I can only go on what the shoulder-glancing reviews of more contemporary works claim. Therefore, my 'shoegaze' incorporates any band with a psychedelic guitar swirl and a sense of guitar-driven soundscape that has existed since about 1990. The idea of an NME 'scene' isn't one that occurs to me. I've heard all the major bands, I've enjoyed them greatly, but to these ears, Loveless stands out for its astonishing use of 'sliding dissonance'; my just-now-coined term for the sound sculptures Shields created through not stable notes of feedback but sliding, pitch-bending lines which overlap to create the most disorientating and wonderful of sonic effects. No other band had nearly as much sonic ambition, although as I've already said, most of them bloody excelled in other areas. All we need now is a band to come along and combine all the aspects...

― unfished business, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 12:11 (seventeen years ago) link

has louis j looked at blissed out by grimey simey reynolds? if he hasn't he should. possibly.

― acrobat, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 12:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Wasn't the term "Shoegazing" invented by Andy Ross? He's claimed authorship of it, basically as a dismissive term slagging off said bands. (The context was trying to claim that Blur were a new exciting fresh band, not like "all those shoegazers!") Originally it was called "the Scene that Celebrates Itself" because they all went to each others shows.

Anyway, yeah. I think of bands like JAMC, Spacemen 3, Loop as dronerock but proto-shoegazing. I'd say Shoegazing as a genre started with Isn't Anything. Loveless was almost the death knell of first generation shoegaze. By that point, lots of the first generation bands were going off try other things. And the second generation shoegazer bands were dilluting the sound and the label to the point of meaningless.

Curve were definitely a shoegaze band, it's ridiculous to try and assign them to another movement. But then you got bands like Cranes being lumped in with it, who were not really shoegaze at all.

― Masonic Boom, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 12:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Curve were definitely a shoegaze band, it's ridiculous to try and assign them to another movement.

Hmmm.... See, for me Curve seemed like the complete opposite of everything Shoegaze stood for. Curve was all about using sound and feedback as a quietly agressive and threatening weapon, whereas shoegazers stood passively in the bliss. Shoegazers talked of sitting next to their sweethearts on some weather-beaten shore, while Curve were all about treating lovers as dogs and dwelling in S&Mish activities. Shoegazers took cues from the Cocteaus, Curve took them from the Sisters of Mercy.

― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 13:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Have you ever actually *listened* to shoegazer lyrics? I mean, really? I know it's difficult as they were very obscured and not printed, but trust me, it's not all bliss and sweetheartsin there.

― Masonic Boom, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 14:01 (seventeen years ago) link

But but but "Cigarette In Your Bed" is so calm and puppy love! Ow, my eye.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 14:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Come on, Ride and Slowdive are all about romantic high school poetry!

― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 14:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Lying under sky,

She laughs at everything I say,

And pulls me under.

There's no time to resist.

Lying on the floor,

There's no time to resist,

Lying on the floor,

The tears are falling down and more.

Her eyes speak loud,

But actions speak the best

― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 14:16 (seventeen years ago) link

The sunshine girl is sleeping
She falls and dreams alone
And me I am her dagger
To numb to feel her pain
The world is full of noise yeah
I hear it all the time

She whispers while I'm sleeping
I love you when you smile
I didn't really lose you
I just lost it for a while
The world is full of noise yeah
I hear it all the time

― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Try My Bloody Valentine and Lush lyrics. All about drugs and shagging and then hating the people you shagged while on drugs.

― Masonic Boom, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 14:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Every time we get a revived MBV thread, it prompts me to listen to Loveless again. Thanks, ILM :)

― tissp, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 15:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Skipping 57 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.
why is that in the middle of the thread? and why does it look like a part of a post? it should be bold and there should be more space and lines around it. it is totally invisible.

― alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 19:30 (seventeen years ago) link

damn, why does The sunshine girl is sleeping
She falls and dreams alone have to be related to Slowdive?

― Z S, Thursday, 1 March 2007 04:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, as I just said I'm about to discover MBV's previous offering

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000002M16.01._SS500_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

not to mention

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000002LMJ.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

― energy flash gordon, Thursday, 1 March 2007 07:51 (seventeen years ago) link

It's also funny how Lush have been forgotten, although at the time they really dominated the scene.

maybe it had something to do with their last -- and very NON-shoegazey and VERY brit-poppy -- album?!?

― Eisbaer, Thursday, 1 March 2007 10:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Maybe, but on the other hand Ride are still remembered despite doing the same thing.

― baaderonixx, Thursday, 1 March 2007 10:10 (seventeen years ago) link

also, lush never had an OMGWTF record like loveless -- or the whole brian wilson-esque mystique that surrounds kevin shields. or (at least over here in the USA) slowdive's so-indie-it-hurts backstory (i.e., band gets fucked over royally by their label's cheapness/incompetence/indifference, has to raise touring money while ON tour AND without an accompanying record to support said tour [b/c of said label's incompetence], and releases a last record that's a genuine left-field headscratcher [going from shoegaze-to-pop is one thing, going from shoegaze-to-ambient is another]). lush almost seems like a fuzzed-up prelude to elastica in retrospect (nothing against either lush or elastica, though!)

― Eisbaer, Thursday, 1 March 2007 10:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Also - Lush were maybe simply just lifeless and boring? I listened to 'Spooky' a few months ago and had to turn it off pretty quickly. It's not that the record sounds dated sonically, but 15 years later I can't really understand what the fuss was about.

― baaderonixx, Thursday, 1 March 2007 10:28 (seventeen years ago) link

spooky's production worked against it. the later records may have shown up miki's voice and lyrics to some extent, but the songs overall seemed to favour the cleaner, less floaty sound..

― electricsound, Thursday, 1 March 2007 11:16 (seventeen years ago) link

I have to say that I prefer the fuzz guitar sound of Flying Saucer Attack, though they don't have an album that rivals Loveless.

― professor ganson, Saturday, 3 March 2007 03:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm listening to This Is Your Bloody Valentine for the first time.

― Curt1s Stephens, Saturday, 3 March 2007 03:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm listening to This Is Your Bloody Valentine for the last time.

― Curt1s Stephens, Saturday, 3 March 2007 03:14 (seventeen years ago) link

tho "The Love Gang" is a pretty decent Joy Division ripoff

― Curt1s Stephens, Saturday, 3 March 2007 03:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Isn't Anything was pretty good. More dramatic than Loveless, if not quite as astonishing.

― unfished business, Saturday, 3 March 2007 03:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Gala is still amazing, I think.

BTW the bit I quoted 5 years ago about Michael Bolton is still OTM.

― HI DERE, Saturday, 3 March 2007 03:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Custos dared to speak where most of us remained silent

― Curt1s Stephens, Saturday, 3 March 2007 17:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I prefer Isn't Anything so much that I don't even klnow if I like Loveless. Okay, I guess I do like it but I hardly evfer play it compared to Isn't Anything...

― NYCNative, Saturday, 3 March 2007 17:48 (seventeen years ago) link

It's good to play them back-to-back for the full effect.

― Curt1s Stephens, Saturday, 3 March 2007 17:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I just downloaded some Air Formation.

I just deleted some Air Formation.

― Z S, Sunday, 4 March 2007 00:06 (seventeen years ago) link

curve's 'frozen' ep is pretty shoegazey and live they tended to have the washed out noise thing just as often as the other bands. they were also fond of the four song ep which was the official currency of the movement. there is an obvious goth influence on most of the bands so the cranes inclusion isn't so odd. it was all about what people listened to anyhow not just the style, the much missed prodigy shoegazing board was all over the place with even the godawful Drop Nineteens being regular topics of conversation.

gala is fantastic. it's funny to still see complaints about robin guthrie's production on spooky, i feel like i am in a time machine. i'm closer to the opinion that the songs just weren't so great though i still quite like that album.

i think slowdive has turned out to be more influential than mbv and maybe this is just because their style is more easily borrowed. I find that most times when a band is compared to mbv really they really should have been compared to slowdive. there haven't been many records that truly sound like 'loveless' have there?

― keythkeyth, Sunday, 4 March 2007 02:24 (seventeen years ago) link

. i'm closer to the opinion that the songs just weren't so great

this is certainly true - it's easily their weakest batch of tracks. but i still think the production didn't suit. it was in this no-man's land between the gala-era stuff and the later, britpoppier stuff where i just don't think things worked.

tbh even though i adore the album, i don't think his production work for mahogany is beyond reproach either - there are ways that album could have been made even more perfect and they're all production.

― electricsound, Sunday, 4 March 2007 08:53 (seventeen years ago) link

In response to the original question...

I do, I really do.

― Spencer Chow, Sunday, 4 March 2007 12:16 (seventeen years ago) link

gala is fantastic. it's funny to still see complaints about robin guthrie's production on spooky, i feel like i am in a time machine. i'm closer to the opinion that the songs just weren't so great though i still quite like that album.

I agree completely. Not all of Gala is great...there are a few songs that are duds. However, what sets it apart from Spooky onwards are the fantastic hooks. Early on they were just super catchy, then I have no idea what happened and I just wasn't interested as much.

― William Selman, Monday, 5 March 2007 19:29 (seventeen years ago) link

four months pass...

is this Josh? (heehee.)
-- Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Sunday, 21 April 2002 00:00 (5 years ago) Bookmark Link

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 6 July 2007 13:42 (seventeen years ago) link

ilx has made me hate mbv

― That one guy that quit, Friday, 6 July 2007 13:43 (seventeen years ago) link

not ilx, calum.

― That one guy that quit, Friday, 6 July 2007 13:44 (seventeen years ago) link

(sarcasm)I find them much more interesting as an art project, or maybe an artistic theory, than I do a band. They're not a real band anyway, right. I think it all lies in the pretty album covers.(/sarcasm)

― nicky lo-fi, Friday, 6 July 2007 14:52 (seventeen years ago) link

not calum, ilx.

― That one guy that quit, Friday, 6 July 2007 14:56 (seventeen years ago) link

It was only in retrospect that Curve were claimed by goths. They were definitely seen as part of the shoegazer bunch in 1991, even though they mimed to a lot of the stuff live, which groups like Lush or Ride would never have done. And they were always seen as less cool because of the Dave Stewart connection, obviously.

Early Cranes were very Isn't Anything era MBV (Inesescaple ep?), but quickly went very swoony and orchcestral (blame being too in thrall to Wish period Cure).

Lush were never taken as seriously as Ride, and then went super pop jangly, whereas we have 'Rioooode' to thank for the Coldplay blueprint that is Carnival or Life.

I listened to that first Slowdive album for the first time in ages the other day, why did they have to slow everything down so much?

― flowersdie, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:06 (seventeen years ago) link

It was only in retrospect that Curve were claimed by goths.

Not out here!

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually I like the idea of the album being called Carnival or Life.

Slowdive EPs played at 45 -- at 33 they were even more amazing!

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:08 (seventeen years ago) link

It was only in retrospect that Curve were claimed by goths.

Nope. I fucked up an interview in 1992 by drunkenly opening with "Shhhhhooo, what's your favourite Goff record Toneeeee?"

― Hupi Bojangls, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Wait, Hupi, who are you?

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm just this guy, y'know?

― Hupi Bojangls, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Now I've got Zaphod Beeblebrox lines in my head. Which is no bad thing.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Did you find out what her favourite goth record was?

― flowersdie, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:19 (seventeen years ago) link

That was the end of the interview.

― Hupi Bojangls, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:21 (seventeen years ago) link

She was just trying to die like some dog.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Coldplay blueprint that is Carnival or Life

I'm not a big fan of that album, but I don't see how it sounds anything like Coldplay.

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 6 July 2007 15:28 (seventeen years ago) link

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