Metal, prog and jazz require a some pencil-armed dude who's spent time practicing scales 'n shit, time that could have been better spent playing street hockey and eating Dunkin Munchkins and trimming your fingernails far past the cuticle.
― bendy, Thursday, 1 April 2010 15:51 (fourteen years ago) link
this might be some subgenre of atonal music with an autistic fixation on complexity above all else, maybe idm or death metal or mathrock or something, with more performatively masculine genres often veering into kitsch
lumpen provincial hxc or thrash would win in terms of simple aggressiveness or misoygny though
― nakhchivan, Thursday, 1 April 2010 15:54 (fourteen years ago) link
misogyny, maybe
― nakhchivan, Thursday, 1 April 2010 15:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Orthrelm's OV is pretty masculine by your criteria
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 1 April 2010 15:58 (fourteen years ago) link
so uh by some of your definitions masculine=technical? because that seems weird to me.
― HOT DISH THYME MACHINE (jjjusten), Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:06 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah you should elaborate on that
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:39 (fourteen years ago) link
something like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_male_brain
i suppose? the privileging of internal logic over, you know, more obviously meretricious elements of music like tunes or w/e
― nakhchivan, Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:42 (fourteen years ago) link
I realise it's inevitable to an extent but there's def some conflation of 'masculinity' and 'things prominently practised by guys' here
― artfuckoleuthic (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:43 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^tip of hat to that DN, gotta say
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:49 (fourteen years ago) link
by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy
― british is happening (The Reverend), Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:49 (fourteen years ago) link
idk, i think that resigning the idea of technicality to some sort of masculine trait is prob more sexist than most anything else on this thread. its prob something that hits me in the wrong spot in particular tho, because i spend lots of my time at work trying to dispel the whole "girls are only allowed to play strummy acoustic guitar" stereotypes.
not trying to be mr dude feminist here or anything
― HOT DISH THYME MACHINE (jjjusten), Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:49 (fourteen years ago) link
"by men for men in a manly male ecstasy" sounds v
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516551R1W8L._SS500_.jpg
― british is happening (The Reverend), Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:51 (fourteen years ago) link
like i said
― plax (ico), Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:59 (fourteen years ago) link
ha, I didn't read the thread past that phrase. you otm.
― british is happening (The Reverend), Thursday, 1 April 2010 17:00 (fourteen years ago) link
I thought there would have been more comments on this part:
In pop music, unisex is unusual. Hip-hop, for example, includes a ton of women—but most of them are background singers or R & B vocalists making guest appearances. Female MCs often rap about subjects rooted in femaleness: wearing lip gloss, being ultrahot, screwing or not needing to screw guys. Women in hip-hop also tend to be glammed up like Foxy Brown, so you can't miss the important bits—if they dress like Missy Elliot, they come across as deliberately butch. Even in a genre like grunge, which has roots in metal, gender differences remain important—which is why the awesomely guttural early-90s Sub Pop band Dickless named themselves Dickless and wrote songs with names like "The C-Word" and "Saddle Tramp."
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link
i think everybody is comfortable assuming that this guy doesn't understand hip hop and moving on
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 1 April 2010 17:12 (fourteen years ago) link
I assumed everybody did some quick math and decided that a misogyny in hip hop thread isn't gonna be much fun or at all productive
― Twink Will Ferrell (J0hn D.), Thursday, 1 April 2010 17:16 (fourteen years ago) link
ha
― british is happening (The Reverend), Thursday, 1 April 2010 17:19 (fourteen years ago) link
have never thought of missy as butch
― bnw, Thursday, 1 April 2010 17:25 (fourteen years ago) link
being ultrahot is also a difficult requirement for femaleness
― bnw, Thursday, 1 April 2010 17:28 (fourteen years ago) link
I think you might be right there
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 18:54 (fourteen years ago) link
― british is happening (The Reverend), Thursday, April 1, 2010 4:49 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
I'm tempted to thrown on 'Male Stripper' right now so I can sing the above over "I was a male stripper in a gogo bar"
― artfuckoleuthic (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 1 April 2010 18:54 (fourteen years ago) link
Okay I sort of skimmed through this thread and didn't really read it but at what point did we switch from talking about masculinity to talking about misogyny? Like, is it actually impossible to do identify something as "masculine" that isn't also dismissive of/belittling towards women, and isn't that kind of super depressing if it's true?
― STAY ALIVE USING EQUIPMENT (HI DERE), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:03 (fourteen years ago) link
once again, gay fascist muscle disco
― british is happening (The Reverend), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:11 (fourteen years ago) link
please post a youtube of gay fascist muscle discoand Dan OTM
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:13 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm glad he realises that I was not looking for examples of misogynist music.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:15 (fourteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAS_wmiYTzE
this is usually the first thing I think of re: "gay fascist muscle disco"
― STAY ALIVE USING EQUIPMENT (HI DERE), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:15 (fourteen years ago) link
Though I can understand why people think it is about misogyny because of the name of the writers (confused?) review.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:16 (fourteen years ago) link
Heh, Dan, I never liked Nitzer Ebb.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:17 (fourteen years ago) link
didnt open the youtube video but that better be pankow or laibach or some other industro thing
xxpost HAHA
― HOT DISH THYME MACHINE (jjjusten), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:18 (fourteen years ago) link
"Join In The Chant" to be precise
― STAY ALIVE USING EQUIPMENT (HI DERE), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:18 (fourteen years ago) link
gay fascist muscle disco
― goole, Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:19 (fourteen years ago) link
oh dan did you listen to the youtube I posted earlier?
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:19 (fourteen years ago) link
"Read These Books"? Listening now. It's kind of... I mean, it's sort of a caricature, isn't it? At least, that's how most metal comes across to me, which is one reason why I don't listen to a lot of it.
― STAY ALIVE USING EQUIPMENT (HI DERE), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:23 (fourteen years ago) link
really earnestly wish more dudes felt comfortable describing themselves as "feminist" without fear of coming off like marc loi or w/e - nothing whatsoever wrong with being a dude feminist & a dude describing himself as one doesn't automatically make him a dumbass
― Twink Will Ferrell (J0hn D.), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:27 (fourteen years ago) link
i thought everyone agreed that the answer was ny hardcore and now we're just bullshitting the afternoon away
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:28 (fourteen years ago) link
part of this is just me being a sad industrogoth but I find a lot more masculine swagger in shit like "Valentine" by Sisters of Mercy, or Birthday Party/Nick Cave stuff or Front Line Assembly shit, things that are either relentless pounding beat-based mechano stomp exercises or moody meandering music with some deep-voiced dude ranting over the top of it
― STAY ALIVE USING EQUIPMENT (HI DERE), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:29 (fourteen years ago) link
(I actually didn't realize I had any time for Nick Cave until I heard The Birthday Party since a lot of the stuff he did with The Bad Seeds can just fuck right off.)
nah J0hn my thing was more that i dont like coming into a discussion like this as a dude and being all "hey let me tell you my IMPORTANT knowledge about the plight of womenfolk" cuz basically i figure its kinda patronizing to get all academic about it when women actually have to deal with this shit while i sit around and pontificate and smoke my smart guy pipe
xposts
― HOT DISH THYME MACHINE (jjjusten), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:32 (fourteen years ago) link
not to mention the fact we have all see the shit Tuomas gets because he calls himself a feminist.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:33 (fourteen years ago) link
I had a few ideas for genre types when i looked at the thread, but really, NYHC is the answer.
― dead flower :( (Pashmina), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:34 (fourteen years ago) link
as a fortunate homosexual i dont really worry that saying im a feminist makes me seem like a date-rapist
― plax (ico), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:34 (fourteen years ago) link
lolz. also, just remembered that I used to work with a dude that had a prominent NYHC tattoo. first time I saw it, I was like, "oh, you're into hardcore?" and he was like, "eh, sort of." WHOOPS.
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:35 (fourteen years ago) link
and to answer this: masculinity historically has largely constructed itself as the thank-God-we're-not-feminine gender. social constructions of masculinity and misogyny go hand in hand. building a masculinity that doesn't define itself as at least somewhat misogynist is sort of the task ahead, but the present reality of masculinity imo can't be discussed without some reference misogyny/feminine traits being construed as lesser, weaker, undesirable/bein' the gender that gets to call the shots.
xpost actually Dan I would argue that the SoM are trying to do some interesting rethinking of masculinity - A.E. all goth-dancin' w/his hands, the band name, the weirdness of the focal point being this guy who kind of looks like he's immobilized in some way but still making this strong music - there always seemed to be something there
― Twink Will Ferrell (J0hn D.), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:35 (fourteen years ago) link
xxp that's not why tuomas gets shit i don't think?
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:36 (fourteen years ago) link
"really earnestly wish more dudes felt comfortable describing themselves as "feminist"
i'm totally not a feminist but i am REALLY feminine. hopefully that makes up for my gross guyness somewhat. i love hyper-masculine music! gay straight or otherwise. it's fun to listen to. the smell of shows where hyper-masculine music is played can kinda get to me after awhile though. pee yoo.
today i am playing all 12 records of the history of the house sound of chicago box that i picked up last night and i feel kinda femme and kinda manly simultaneously.
― scott seward, Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:37 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't think talking about femininity & masculinity & where we're at with it as a culture is really smokin the smart guy pipe - certainly just saying "can't talk about that, it might be patronizing" is less good than taking the risk?
― Twink Will Ferrell (J0hn D.), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:37 (fourteen years ago) link
JD sayin' that better than I could've. when someone describes something as "masculine," it almost always comes off like this dockers ad or we:
http://www.autostraddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Dockers-wear-the-pants1-500x333.png
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:37 (fourteen years ago) link
why i think that a homo-uber-mensch version of masculinity works really well for this thread is partly because women dont come into it at all, I think a lot of this misogyny/masculinity male-trouble is because the female is situated as both a source of desire but also the antithesis of masculinity, so the female is kind of there as an absent force that weirdly exerts this anxious repulsion/desire in terms of how the masculine is constructed. But with faggy-shirtless-poppersniffing industrial its all Man-machine-fuck-a-tron-groove-train and women just dont come into it.
― plax (ico), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:43 (fourteen years ago) link
I feel like there is about a metric ton's worth of modern sociological baggage tied up in that opinion which I have not adequately studied enough to properly argue against aside from saying that masculinity and chauvinism appear to me to be two related but separate things and you are essentially ceding any chance of actual gender* equality if you conflate the two, as you are basically saying the defining essence of one is to oppress the other.
* - I really don't want to use this word but I don't have a better one.
― STAY ALIVE USING EQUIPMENT (HI DERE), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:44 (fourteen years ago) link