what is the most masculine genre of music?

yeah you should elaborate on that

something like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_male_brain

i suppose? the privileging of internal logic over, you know, more obviously meretricious elements of music like tunes or w/e

I realise it's inevitable to an extent but there's def some conflation of 'masculinity' and 'things prominently practised by guys' here

^^^tip of hat to that DN, gotta say

by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy

idk, i think that resigning the idea of technicality to some sort of masculine trait is prob more sexist than most anything else on this thread. its prob something that hits me in the wrong spot in particular tho, because i spend lots of my time at work trying to dispel the whole "girls are only allowed to play strummy acoustic guitar" stereotypes.

not trying to be mr dude feminist here or anything

"by men for men in a manly male ecstasy" sounds v

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516551R1W8L._SS500_.jpg

like i said

ha, I didn't read the thread past that phrase. you otm.

I thought there would have been more comments on this part:

In pop music, unisex is unusual. Hip-hop, for example, includes a ton of women—but most of them are background singers or R & B vocalists making guest appearances. Female MCs often rap about subjects rooted in femaleness: wearing lip gloss, being ultrahot, screwing or not needing to screw guys. Women in hip-hop also tend to be glammed up like Foxy Brown, so you can't miss the important bits—if they dress like Missy Elliot, they come across as deliberately butch. Even in a genre like grunge, which has roots in metal, gender differences remain important—which is why the awesomely guttural early-90s Sub Pop band Dickless named themselves Dickless and wrote songs with names like "The C-Word" and "Saddle Tramp."

i think everybody is comfortable assuming that this guy doesn't understand hip hop and moving on

I assumed everybody did some quick math and decided that a misogyny in hip hop thread isn't gonna be much fun or at all productive

ha

have never thought of missy as butch

being ultrahot is also a difficult requirement for femaleness

i think everybody is comfortable assuming that this guy doesn't understand hip hop and moving on

I think you might be right there

by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy by men for men in a manly male ecstasy

― british is happening (The Reverend), Thursday, April 1, 2010 4:49 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I'm tempted to thrown on 'Male Stripper' right now so I can sing the above over "I was a male stripper in a gogo bar"

Okay I sort of skimmed through this thread and didn't really read it but at what point did we switch from talking about masculinity to talking about misogyny? Like, is it actually impossible to do identify something as "masculine" that isn't also dismissive of/belittling towards women, and isn't that kind of super depressing if it's true?

once again, gay fascist muscle disco

please post a youtube of gay fascist muscle disco
and Dan OTM

I'm glad he realises that I was not looking for examples of misogynist music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAS_wmiYTzE

this is usually the first thing I think of re: "gay fascist muscle disco"

Though I can understand why people think it is about misogyny because of the name of the writers (confused?) review.

Heh, Dan, I never liked Nitzer Ebb.

didnt open the youtube video but that better be pankow or laibach or some other industro thing

xxpost HAHA

"Join In The Chant" to be precise

gay fascist muscle disco

oh dan did you listen to the youtube I posted earlier?

"Read These Books"? Listening now. It's kind of... I mean, it's sort of a caricature, isn't it? At least, that's how most metal comes across to me, which is one reason why I don't listen to a lot of it.

not trying to be mr dude feminist here or anything

really earnestly wish more dudes felt comfortable describing themselves as "feminist" without fear of coming off like marc loi or w/e - nothing whatsoever wrong with being a dude feminist & a dude describing himself as one doesn't automatically make him a dumbass

i thought everyone agreed that the answer was ny hardcore and now we're just bullshitting the afternoon away

part of this is just me being a sad industrogoth but I find a lot more masculine swagger in shit like "Valentine" by Sisters of Mercy, or Birthday Party/Nick Cave stuff or Front Line Assembly shit, things that are either relentless pounding beat-based mechano stomp exercises or moody meandering music with some deep-voiced dude ranting over the top of it

(I actually didn't realize I had any time for Nick Cave until I heard The Birthday Party since a lot of the stuff he did with The Bad Seeds can just fuck right off.)

nah J0hn my thing was more that i dont like coming into a discussion like this as a dude and being all "hey let me tell you my IMPORTANT knowledge about the plight of womenfolk" cuz basically i figure its kinda patronizing to get all academic about it when women actually have to deal with this shit while i sit around and pontificate and smoke my smart guy pipe

xposts

not to mention the fact we have all see the shit Tuomas gets because he calls himself a feminist.

I had a few ideas for genre types when i looked at the thread, but really, NYHC is the answer.

as a fortunate homosexual i dont really worry that saying im a feminist makes me seem like a date-rapist

i thought everyone agreed that the answer was ny hardcore and now we're just bullshitting the afternoon away

lolz. also, just remembered that I used to work with a dude that had a prominent NYHC tattoo. first time I saw it, I was like, "oh, you're into hardcore?" and he was like, "eh, sort of." WHOOPS.

Okay I sort of skimmed through this thread and didn't really read it but at what point did we switch from talking about masculinity to talking about misogyny? Like, is it actually impossible to do identify something as "masculine" that isn't also dismissive of/belittling towards women, and isn't that kind of super depressing if it's true?

and to answer this: masculinity historically has largely constructed itself as the thank-God-we're-not-feminine gender. social constructions of masculinity and misogyny go hand in hand. building a masculinity that doesn't define itself as at least somewhat misogynist is sort of the task ahead, but the present reality of masculinity imo can't be discussed without some reference misogyny/feminine traits being construed as lesser, weaker, undesirable/bein' the gender that gets to call the shots.

xpost actually Dan I would argue that the SoM are trying to do some interesting rethinking of masculinity - A.E. all goth-dancin' w/his hands, the band name, the weirdness of the focal point being this guy who kind of looks like he's immobilized in some way but still making this strong music - there always seemed to be something there

xxp that's not why tuomas gets shit i don't think?

"really earnestly wish more dudes felt comfortable describing themselves as "feminist"

i'm totally not a feminist but i am REALLY feminine. hopefully that makes up for my gross guyness somewhat. i love hyper-masculine music! gay straight or otherwise. it's fun to listen to. the smell of shows where hyper-masculine music is played can kinda get to me after awhile though. pee yoo.

today i am playing all 12 records of the history of the house sound of chicago box that i picked up last night and i feel kinda femme and kinda manly simultaneously.

nah J0hn my thing was more that i dont like coming into a discussion like this as a dude and being all "hey let me tell you my IMPORTANT knowledge about the plight of womenfolk" cuz basically i figure its kinda patronizing to get all academic about it when women actually have to deal with this shit while i sit around and pontificate and smoke my smart guy pipe

I don't think talking about femininity & masculinity & where we're at with it as a culture is really smokin the smart guy pipe - certainly just saying "can't talk about that, it might be patronizing" is less good than taking the risk?

JD sayin' that better than I could've. when someone describes something as "masculine," it almost always comes off like this dockers ad or we:

http://www.autostraddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Dockers-wear-the-pants1-500x333.png

why i think that a homo-uber-mensch version of masculinity works really well for this thread is partly because women dont come into it at all, I think a lot of this misogyny/masculinity male-trouble is because the female is situated as both a source of desire but also the antithesis of masculinity, so the female is kind of there as an absent force that weirdly exerts this anxious repulsion/desire in terms of how the masculine is constructed. But with faggy-shirtless-poppersniffing industrial its all Man-machine-fuck-a-tron-groove-train and women just dont come into it.

JD sayin' that better than I could've. when someone describes something as "masculine," it almost always comes off like this dockers ad or we:

I feel like there is about a metric ton's worth of modern sociological baggage tied up in that opinion which I have not adequately studied enough to properly argue against aside from saying that masculinity and chauvinism appear to me to be two related but separate things and you are essentially ceding any chance of actual gender* equality if you conflate the two, as you are basically saying the defining essence of one is to oppress the other.

* - I really don't want to use this word but I don't have a better one.

jjjusten's concern that gendering anything affects women more than men seems otm

also lold at plax's sly martinism

I just came here to talk about organ solos.

i always found that it was cool to imagine, like, a non-oppressive ideal masculinity, and there are instances where you can see facets of it, but overall it's a v. thorny issue.

yeah i mean, you can say its not really fair to say that masculinity isn't necc misogynistic but i mean, masculinity is just a set of codes within the larger culture of white male patriarchy yall.

this wld be better if it was only a question for women imo