x-post to HI DERE:
I guess what I was getting at is when "masculine" or "macho" get rolled out, more of then than not, it is in opposition to the other. often pretty explicitly!
you obv can't write off anything masculine as misogynistic. but the way the term is deployed often is.
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:58 (fourteen years ago) link
haha lose my "x-post" I guess
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link
well if concepts like masculine and feminine are going to be useful to a society then they are about delineating between two classes of people and you know which one has been in charge quite a lot, it makes sense that the definitions between those categories would be useful as tools of subjugation etc.
xp thats why I was hoping that we could jump in with, you know roided up house music, because thats a more interesting way of thinking about masculinity (pleasure of the body, body worship etc) than whichever is most hardcore and violent (what is implicit in violence always is, you know the victims of said violence)
― plax (ico), Thursday, 1 April 2010 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link
that xp was to HD
well I hear you but I think that is unfair to say that the fault lies in the people who reflexively think "masculinity has a lot to do with misogyny" - an ideal masculinity may not, but masculinity as we know it in the world kinda does imo. it's not being defined by "the way I think about it" - masculinity, for a long time, has largely defined itself (via its social expression & norms) as "the trait that is antithetical to femininity"
but fuck this it is HI DERE's birthday so let us not argue and let us rather think of masculine traits other than the misogynist ones, which we've covered!
― Twink Will Ferrell (J0hn D.), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:01 (fourteen years ago) link
really earnestly wish more dudes felt comfortable describing themselves as "feminist" without fear of coming off like marc loi or w/e
yeah I was pretty comfortable doing this until ILX ragged on me ad infinitum - maybe the content, rather than the form, was an issue
Tiarnan's answer is still the best one, although I'd possibly add KMFDM
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:03 (fourteen years ago) link
most "bro" music: sublime
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:04 (fourteen years ago) link
Any ladies chime in yet on this thread?
― bendy, Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:27 (fourteen years ago) link
No, it's a very masculine thread so far.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:29 (fourteen years ago) link
*chugs a brewdog*
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:46 (fourteen years ago) link
what... what is a "brewdog"
― STAY ALIVE USING EQUIPMENT (HI DERE), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:47 (fourteen years ago) link
surely it isn't a hot dog in beer form, which is what I am terrified it is
lolz I use it interchangeably w/"brewski" or the like
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:48 (fourteen years ago) link
but literal brew dog description resulted in a literal lol
Didn't there used to be brats with beer in them?
― Astley Hunchings (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:48 (fourteen years ago) link
see what happens when there are no women in the discussion
― ogmor, Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:50 (fourteen years ago) link
my buddy once poured skittles into heineken or some somethin' and called it "skittlebrau". it was pretty nasty. (but v. masculine)
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:50 (fourteen years ago) link
Dan will now make his fortune selling hotdogs in beer
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:53 (fourteen years ago) link
I have a sneaking suspicion that this will kill on college campuses
― STAY ALIVE USING EQUIPMENT (HI DERE), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:53 (fourteen years ago) link
Remember when this goes to court when Alan sues you, that we will take his side, unless you give us a percentage of the profit.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:55 (fourteen years ago) link
Meat which fizzes = NAGL
― Astley Hunchings (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:55 (fourteen years ago) link
dpaok
― british is happening (The Reverend), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:56 (fourteen years ago) link
.0000000000000000000001% is still a percentage, just remember this
― STAY ALIVE USING EQUIPMENT (HI DERE), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:56 (fourteen years ago) link
these guys will want a piece of the cut:
http://www.brewdog.com/slideshow/home2.jpghttp://www.brewdog.com/media/brewdog_logo.jpg
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:57 (fourteen years ago) link
sorry, can't resist:
http://www.brewdog.com/media/punkdog.gif
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:59 (fourteen years ago) link
How is that an achievement? Dogs notoriously easy to punk.
― Astley Hunchings (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:00 (fourteen years ago) link
You just pretend like you threw the milkbone but really youre still holding it.
it may not be an achievement, but you can't deny that it makes it more personal
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:01 (fourteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeb8-KBq4b0
― bendy, Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:06 (fourteen years ago) link
The answer to this thread is Outlaw Country.
― Kerm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:10 (fourteen years ago) link
Hank III must be like the most masculine musician ever then.
― bendy, Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:12 (fourteen years ago) link
Any guy you can compare to his father and grandfather and say is the most masculine of the bunch is probably a pussy.
― Kerm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:16 (fourteen years ago) link
robert bly is mrs. doubtfire?
― scott seward, Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:23 (fourteen years ago) link
― ¬_¬ (Alan N), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:50 (12 minutes ago) Bookmark
reffing a Simpsons bit here:
Homer: "I'm feelin' low, Apu. You got any of that beer that has candy floating in it, you know, Skittlebrau?"Apu: "Such a product does not exist, sir! You must have dreamed it."Homer: "Oh. Well then just gimme a six-pack and a couple of bags of Skittles."
Apu: "Such a product does not exist, sir! You must have dreamed it."
Homer: "Oh. Well then just gimme a six-pack and a couple of bags of Skittles."
feminism, unless we're getting way extreme, basically amounts to 'anti-sexism' (v. rarely about overcoming the patriarchy and then instituting a matriarchy, yes?), so hey gents, if we're feeling awkward let's just go for that.
― FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:23 (fourteen years ago) link
If feminism just amounted to anti-sexism we'd probably just call it that.
― Kerm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:29 (fourteen years ago) link
heh, didn't catch the ref but he's a big simpsons nerd, so that makes sense.
― original bgm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:31 (fourteen years ago) link
Can I sorta disagree with J0hn for a second? I tend not to like the implication that masculinity is just a matter of not-being-Other for the same reasons I dislike the idea that middle-class white Americans "don't have a culture" -- because it describes how privilege feels, but it doesn't actually describe reality. Just because your way of being is so dominant or valued that you're not super-conscious of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist; just because putting on a baseball cap feels less visible than putting on a turban doesn't mean the baseball cap isn't part of a culture that's just as specific as any other. And I think that goes even more for being male/masculine, a gender system in which there's no big numerical minority -- it's half-and-half, you know? Being male/masculine isn't just about not-being-Other, it's a whole gender construct every bit as bizarre and artificial as being female/feminine. It just happens to be the one we value and make really easy on men, which makes it incredibly easy to adopt it and perform it without much thinking about it, just viewing it as natural and right and simple. That's where the "othering" comes in. But I don't know that the concept of masculinity is any less constructed than femininity -- in fact, it strikes me as problematic to really talk about gender without saying "masculinity" is completely artificial and learned and performed like anything else!
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:34 (fourteen years ago) link
haha sorry HI DERE kinda pointed at this idea already, sorry
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:37 (fourteen years ago) link
it's okay, nerdy black dudes gotta stick together
― STAY ALIVE USING EQUIPMENT (HI DERE), Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:40 (fourteen years ago) link
how dya think feminism doesn't generally amount to anti-sexism? What it's generally doing is trying to find some kind of balanced relationship between sexes, either in the boring standard equal rights way, or as a matter of the real recognition of different identities alongside the (male; also white + western + etc.) norm, no?
― FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 1 April 2010 21:50 (fourteen years ago) link
haha HI FIVE DERE
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Thursday, 1 April 2010 22:02 (fourteen years ago) link
no, i don't think feminism is primarily about establishing a "balanced" relationship between sexes... any more than the guy who's running second in the race is primarily about "catching up" with the leader. If women were to surpass men in whatever metrics are used to demonstrate their second-class status now, you think the bulk of self-identifying feminists would mind?
― Kerm, Thursday, 1 April 2010 22:05 (fourteen years ago) link
I think alot of middle America would think pop country like Toby Keith and stuff is the most masculine. I mean cos metal people wear makeups. And hardcore/techno people are .... well, you can guess what they say. I think in the last decade hip hop and rap has taken its place amongst the children of those people but yeah if you want a mainstream definition of manly music just watch a pickup truck commercial and listen to what it's playing.
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 1 April 2010 22:05 (fourteen years ago) link
dan is it rilly yer birthday happy birthday! if so.
― scott seward, Thursday, 1 April 2010 22:05 (fourteen years ago) link
op w/e is on the stereo when im banging yr sister
― alt-3, gold & silver (Lamp), Thursday, 1 April 2010 22:07 (fourteen years ago) link
kerm, I think we're on a pretty dangerous ground if we're positioning feminism in general as a declaration of sexual warfare.
― FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 1 April 2010 22:08 (fourteen years ago) link
Kerm that's an incredibly short-term (and ridiculously quantitative) way of looking at it. Seriously, a change in our society that took care of all our various cultural roots of sexism would be part of a process on the scale of like centuries, not metrics, and yes, by the end of it today's self-identifying feminists would be long dead, and the people of this vastly improved future would have gradually stopped worrying a ton about the issue.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Thursday, 1 April 2010 22:11 (fourteen years ago) link
ask ten women what feminism means and you'll get ten different answers. the gals never know what they want. am i right or am i right?
― scott seward, Thursday, 1 April 2010 22:12 (fourteen years ago) link
hell ya, that's why I'm here to tellem what it is.
― FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 1 April 2010 22:26 (fourteen years ago) link
― Kerm, Thursday, April 1, 2010 6:05 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
thread delivers
― horseshoe, Thursday, 1 April 2010 22:29 (fourteen years ago) link