what is the most masculine genre of music?

I have a sneaking suspicion that this will kill on college campuses

Remember when this goes to court when Alan sues you, that we will take his side, unless you give us a percentage of the profit.

Meat which fizzes = NAGL

dpaok

.0000000000000000000001% is still a percentage, just remember this

these guys will want a piece of the cut:

http://www.brewdog.com/slideshow/home2.jpg
http://www.brewdog.com/media/brewdog_logo.jpg

sorry, can't resist:

http://www.brewdog.com/media/punkdog.gif

How is that an achievement? Dogs notoriously easy to punk.

You just pretend like you threw the milkbone but really youre still holding it.

it may not be an achievement, but you can't deny that it makes it more personal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeb8-KBq4b0

The answer to this thread is Outlaw Country.

Hank III must be like the most masculine musician ever then.

Any guy you can compare to his father and grandfather and say is the most masculine of the bunch is probably a pussy.

robert bly is mrs. doubtfire?

my buddy once poured skittles into heineken or some somethin' and called it "skittlebrau". it was pretty nasty. (but v. masculine)

― ¬_¬ (Alan N), Thursday, 1 April 2010 20:50 (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

reffing a Simpsons bit here:

Homer: "I'm feelin' low, Apu. You got any of that beer that has candy floating in it, you know, Skittlebrau?"

Apu: "Such a product does not exist, sir! You must have dreamed it."

Homer: "Oh. Well then just gimme a six-pack and a couple of bags of Skittles."

feminism, unless we're getting way extreme, basically amounts to 'anti-sexism' (v. rarely about overcoming the patriarchy and then instituting a matriarchy, yes?), so hey gents, if we're feeling awkward let's just go for that.

If feminism just amounted to anti-sexism we'd probably just call it that.

heh, didn't catch the ref but he's a big simpsons nerd, so that makes sense.

Can I sorta disagree with J0hn for a second? I tend not to like the implication that masculinity is just a matter of not-being-Other for the same reasons I dislike the idea that middle-class white Americans "don't have a culture" -- because it describes how privilege feels, but it doesn't actually describe reality. Just because your way of being is so dominant or valued that you're not super-conscious of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist; just because putting on a baseball cap feels less visible than putting on a turban doesn't mean the baseball cap isn't part of a culture that's just as specific as any other. And I think that goes even more for being male/masculine, a gender system in which there's no big numerical minority -- it's half-and-half, you know? Being male/masculine isn't just about not-being-Other, it's a whole gender construct every bit as bizarre and artificial as being female/feminine. It just happens to be the one we value and make really easy on men, which makes it incredibly easy to adopt it and perform it without much thinking about it, just viewing it as natural and right and simple. That's where the "othering" comes in. But I don't know that the concept of masculinity is any less constructed than femininity -- in fact, it strikes me as problematic to really talk about gender without saying "masculinity" is completely artificial and learned and performed like anything else!

haha sorry HI DERE kinda pointed at this idea already, sorry

it's okay, nerdy black dudes gotta stick together

how dya think feminism doesn't generally amount to anti-sexism? What it's generally doing is trying to find some kind of balanced relationship between sexes, either in the boring standard equal rights way, or as a matter of the real recognition of different identities alongside the (male; also white + western + etc.) norm, no?

haha HI FIVE DERE

no, i don't think feminism is primarily about establishing a "balanced" relationship between sexes... any more than the guy who's running second in the race is primarily about "catching up" with the leader. If women were to surpass men in whatever metrics are used to demonstrate their second-class status now, you think the bulk of self-identifying feminists would mind?

I think alot of middle America would think pop country like Toby Keith and stuff is the most masculine. I mean cos metal people wear makeups. And hardcore/techno people are .... well, you can guess what they say. I think in the last decade hip hop and rap has taken its place amongst the children of those people but yeah if you want a mainstream definition of manly music just watch a pickup truck commercial and listen to what it's playing.

dan is it rilly yer birthday happy birthday! if so.

op w/e is on the stereo when im banging yr sister

kerm, I think we're on a pretty dangerous ground if we're positioning feminism in general as a declaration of sexual warfare.

Kerm that's an incredibly short-term (and ridiculously quantitative) way of looking at it. Seriously, a change in our society that took care of all our various cultural roots of sexism would be part of a process on the scale of like centuries, not metrics, and yes, by the end of it today's self-identifying feminists would be long dead, and the people of this vastly improved future would have gradually stopped worrying a ton about the issue.

ask ten women what feminism means and you'll get ten different answers. the gals never know what they want. am i right or am i right?

hell ya, that's why I'm here to tellem what it is.

no, i don't think feminism is primarily about establishing a "balanced" relationship between sexes... any more than the guy who's running second in the race is primarily about "catching up" with the leader. If women were to surpass men in whatever metrics are used to demonstrate their second-class status now, you think the bulk of self-identifying feminists would mind?

― Kerm, Thursday, April 1, 2010 6:05 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

thread delivers

please dont , we avoided thread being derailed and trainwrecked all day, dont spoil it now!

almost as o_____O as that fastnbulbous post earlier tbh

thread needs more NYHC vids from youtube to make us laugh

I just don't get why a movement supposedly aimed at *balancing* power relationships between the sexes would call itself that. If your goal truly is *gender equality* why wouldn't you find it inappropriate to call yourself a feminist?

Any ilxors here that were into NYHC or were in a HC band?

ilm doesn't have the energy for a long dumb political debate anymore. don't worry about it. threads don't get derailed anymore. they just start out dumb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvlE14cM-zk

Any ilxors here that were into NYHC or were in a HC band?

Oh yeah. Saw Sick Of It All, Gorilla Biscuits and Judge at City Gardens in Trenton, NJ in 1988; saw Bold, Killing Time, and tons of other bands at CBGB matinees on Sunday afternoons. Still have Breakdown's 1987 demo in my iPod.

The original Blauner article is here FWIW: http://deeplinking.net/new-york-magazine-hardcore/

I can actually see where some of the kids' criticisms were coming from!

One Comment

1.
Andrés Hoyos
September 7, 2008 at 10:53 pm #

Í’d love to inform everyone about the recent AgnosticFfront activities. They were in Bogotá, Colombia (wich im from) last saturday playing side by side with neo nazi, colombian bands. They seem pretty excited about having nazis as their security.

it strikes me as problematic to really talk about gender without saying "masculinity" is completely artificial and learned and performed like anything else!

i thought that is exactly what i was saying, just with the opposite conclusion. masculinity and patriarchy are equally products of sex, class etc. relations and are as such mutually dependent, that is our construction of masculinity, while obviously not entirely like lets not get hysterical, but i mean it is constructed in such a way as to perpetuate patriarchal and unequal gender relations, in part through the generation and assignment of "masculine qualities" which seem to normalize unequal gender relations. The reason its not such a short jump from masculinity to misogyny is because their histories are so intertwined, one generating and strengthening the other. When we start to talk about masculinity, it is obviously as opposed to femininity because this feels like such an easy binary. You might not think its fair because after all masculinity and misogyny are not the same thing, but one is definitely complicit in the other, so much so that to talk about one means that the other is bound to come up pretty quickly.

(I don't think I disagreed with any of that, and the "you might not think it's fair" bit makes me think you're coming at my point from the wrong direction: it's not about misogyny or what I think is "fair" so much as acknowledging that masculinity is an artificial construct that can be identified and described, and our culture -- people of both sexes -- does a shitload of work policing people into conforming with it, just as it does with women and femininity.)

I think music is a very strange venue where people can dress up like drag queens and be incredibly misogynist, so maybe the opposite can also exist?

^otm

i have a problem with nabz's term "artificial construct". societal constructs aren't unreal. are they? they seem really real to me.

or they become real anyway. just try and not be something after you have been something your whole life. it's hard!

artificial things are real -- put artificial sweetener in your tea, it's still sweet

they're just a little more constructed and less like the natural order of the universe

dint mean you specifically. I mean i feel like masculinity in some pure state is something positive and great and it does feel unfair to practically conflate it with something as ugly as misogyny, so i mean im arguing w. myself more than anyone on that. But I do also think that our conception of what masculinity is, as opposed to femininity, emerges against a background of inequality so the construction of both cant help but depend on the other, meaning that there is no pure state of masculinity, but an accumulation of codes/practices/desires/privileges which have formed as a consequence of inequality as well as aiding to normalise and perpetuate it.

I mean there are probably ways to get around this, and i definitely think that the distinction between libidinal instincts is in some way more conducive to constructing a value system for that kind of distinction because it is harder to break down into a violence>domination>oppression metaphor. I mean I know I've only got like one point and I don't really want to keep banging it into the ground so i mean ill shut up now, but I mean filthy basslines and rooms full of sweaty men tryna get off with each other feels like a much healthier petri dish to grow this out of, largely because the way that women do not enter that particular picture is quite different from for example Prurient's uber-mensch shirtless guy wailing into a feedback loop, where women frequently seem like some absent instigator of violence.