The Smiths: Classic or Dud?

Few bands evoke such strong feelings of loathing in me -- maybe it's just because I've had to have this argument so many times with incredulous fans who can't fathom someone not liking The Smiths. There is no band that I like that I can't at least fathom someone else not liking. But I cannot fathom the utter reverence for The Smiths. Dud Dud Dud Dud Dud.

Classic duh duh duh

it's more to do with the emotional milieu in which the bands work: the poor indie loser out of step with the world. mind you, even that's not much of a comparison, i admit. i'm not sure where my patented "poor man's weddding present" comparison came from, but it certainly winds people up in the pub. perhaps that's the only reason i came up with it, actually ;)

Now if they had only ever made a song as beautifully melodic and harmonic as "Made Of Stone" or "Bye Bye Badman"...

GREATEST. TROLL POST. EVER.

I say Classic.

could someone explain bo diddley in how soon is now (according to the nyt)? humming would be okay.

the rotochorus (or whatever it is) on the main guitar kind of does a bump babump babump babump-bump thing

that's less cringey than reuters' subhead of 'influenced rockers from elvis to u2'

yeah the accents resemble the Bo Diddley beat with all the swing taken out

one of the greatest bands in history. not just for the mystique or their singularly unique sound, but for the quality and depth of the songs.

haha i'm gonna hear them in a brand new way now that you've said that

was morrissey really that good a writer? or did he just have a distinct persona/writing voice?

NO/YES

eyeball,
look no further than 'i know it's over' when re-evaluating the smiths' work :)
listen for when those big drums enter and morrissey's delivery builds in intensity. it's that cascading, restrained guitar line that keeps everything in check and prevents the song from collapsing under its own weight. really powerful stuff. the song is really poignant and introspective with a sort of resigned, sad sense of humour underpinning it... one of many examples of the band's multi-dimensional approach to songwriting.

Morrissey was a good writer, yes. Why he doesn't seem to be such a good lyricist anymore, I don't know.

he's just lazier these days. still has some poignant insights every now and then

is he actually that funny? (in a good way) or is he still funny (in a bad, hahah, oh god that is so terrible but i cant believe he just said that old-timey bingo hall entertainer kind of way)?

(am debating this after listening to the song about americans on quarry).

For all the praise Morrissey and Marr get, it was quite often the Rhythm section that made The Smiths interesting. Morrissey's lyrics are intermittently quite witty, but he's not much cop at writing melodies, he just kind of wobbles up and down.

sometimes hes witty. other times his humour is just ropey.

i think he's a lot funnier (even when he's not trying particularly hard) than your average wordy joe schmuck fishing for laughs

I went to see Andy Rourke do a DJ set tonight. I had a great time. At the end of the night he let me put on his glasses! He has the coolest glasses, I'm sorry. They're prescription he said, but they're sortof...half sunglasses, half not. They make him look sortof Lennon-ish or Liam-ish from far away I guess. Just slightly square in shape. I love them. He played two Pixies tracks (both from Doolittle), Devo's "Whip It", T-Rex's "Telegram Sam", a mashup of Blondie's Rapture and Doors' Riders On The Storm, ended the set with Stone Roses "I Am The Resurrection" and Doves "M62". There was also a new-ish song I liked and didn't know and went to his computer screen to find out what it was. It was by The New Young Pony Club called "The Get Go". He also played a bunch of other dance music I didn't recognize but was fun to dance to.

Oh also, I asked him what was on his T-shirt because he had a sportcoat and you couldn't see it. So he showed me and it was an arty colorful silhouette pic of Betty Page with something else on top of it.

There were some pretty cool bands who played as well. That is all.

Also the only Smiths song he played was Bigmouth.

What I fail to understand, though, is Morrissey's new arrangement of some of the old Smiths songs. I don't even want to *link* to the new version of This Charming Man I heard the other day on youtube. It sounded like the fucking Jonas Brothers.

Hahah. I dunno, man. I can't help you. I tried his new album one time and I couldn't even get through half of it. Sorry.

;)

I went to see Andy Rourke do a DJ set tonight

Jealous of this. Didn't know Rourke was DJ'ing now. I assume he's financially secure (despite hostilities between the band members on money-matters), so maybe he's just having fun.

Yeah, he's doing this in other cities as well, and what was more interesting to me was learning that he actually came out here two years ago to this Brit Pop thing my friend DJ'd at.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention he played two Clash tracks, too. Maginificent Seven...and...was it Train In Vain?

http://bandwidth.wamu.org/there-at-a-special-time-a-d-c-punk-on-her-teen-years-touring-with-the-smiths/

http://www.studio1469.com/events

In 1985 and into 1986 then 17 year-old DC photographer Nalinee Darmrong traveled with and captured The Smiths during the height of their : the Meat Is Murder and The Queen Is Dead tours.

Now she has a book out with photos and ephemera, and a gallery exhibit

I love arguing with Morrissey fans about how The Smiths would've had a perfectly satisfactory career with any other singer in Moz's place because the musicians in the band were good at their jobs and Marr was/is something of a guitar savant. They're not having it, of course.

depends what you mean by "satisfactory" I guess

w out Moz there's none of the iconography, no foregrounding of transgressive gender/sexuality, no ridiculous song titles/lyrical hooks. Marr needed a co-writer/lyricist, as his solo career has borne out.

Would they be legendary? Unlikely. But they would have fared perfectly fine in that mid-80s London guitar pop climate. Morrissey contributed fuck all to the actual music of The Smiths, that's all Marr. Plenty of other singers could have stepped in and done a capable job with those songs.

probably true, but they'd have been on the level of Heaven 17 or Aztec Camera or something.

Morrissey's vocal melodies run all over Marr's songs in really strange and unique ways, I don't think that's "fuck all" - it's just one more thing that makes them interesting. He doesn't structure a lot of his melodies in standard verse-chorus-hook ways, things repeat (or don't) at odd intervals, etc.

christ on a fucking something

What a tsunami of wank

Shakey, uh, otm

we know Moz is a doddering loon now, but curb your revisionism

yeah that is a ridiculous thing to argue

i assume it's only a matter of time till ppl start saying "the beatles would have been just fine without john lennon"

lol yeah Smiths would have been huge without Morrissey just like Chapterhouse

perfectly satisfactory career

You guys have totally twisted my position, but ok.

they would have fared perfectly fine in that mid-80s London guitar pop climate.

why would they have even moved to London without Morrissey's lyrics, drive, and personality

Dud

Morrissey and Marr clearly needed each other and complimented each other perfectly. And they would be forgotten by now without Morrissey.

The musicians in most canonical rock bands are probably accomplished enough that they could have had "perfectly satisfactory careers" with different lead singers.

i assume it's only a matter of time till ppl start saying "the beatles would have been just fine without john lennon"

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:07 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There have been TV dramas framed around answering this question already.