ATP (UK version) 2009 - who's in?

Yep, Alexander Tucker does tend to show his face at pretty much every ATP event -- a bit too often. His music's just fine, though, unlike fellow ATP recording artists Sleepy Sun... aptly named, as "sleepy" is precisely how I felt watching their live show. Here's hoping they don't get the Tucker treatment and start hauling their asses to every ATP henceforth.

i've seen Deerhoof and Lighting Bolt and a bunch of the ones Aldo listed - Flipper? NA? di they play that many? - probably a couple times each in the past and enjoyed them, but i'd much rather see something new. or maybe it just feels like certain bands have played more than they really have. i mean, how many times *have* Lightning Bolt played?

i just think they need to cast the net out with curators. how bout Byron Coley or something? i don't really give a fuck about what Explosions in the Sky. but then i don'think i fit the typical dude for most of the recent festivals.

anyway, gripes aside, i'm still going to the pavement one but only really because a bunch of friends are going. and the SPACEBOWL, duh.

I saw Lightning Bolt play four times at one a couple of years back, that has probably coloured my mind re their ever-presentness.

I would like if they split their two summer ones into a big one at Minehead and a smaller, weirder, more diverse one at Camber Sands. Probably not too likely.

i just think they need to cast the net out with curators. how bout Byron Coley or something? i don't really give a fuck about what Explosions in the Sky

^^^^^^^^^

i just think they need to cast the net out with curators. how bout Byron Coley or something? i don't really give a fuck about what Explosions in the Sky think

OK, I'll admit now my main source of grief with the whole SPZ/JN queuing fiasco is that I fucked my knee on Saturday and another of our party was in a wheelchair so with none of us caring about SPZ one iota getting upstairs to JN where there was a bar and we could sit down was a priority and might have coloured how pissed off I was with the rest of it.

Now I have calmed down a little, I see my issues are the same as tpp's with talking about a 'steady state lineup'. I too don't necessarily have a problem with the extract from the Thurston Moore weekend I posted earlier, however, Deerhoof have played 8 ATPs to date. Melvins have played 6. Sonic Youth have played 8. Bardo Pond have played 7. Dinosaur Jr have played 4 (I could have sworn it was more, although none of these include when these bands have played multiple sets.) It seems to me they define the same old crowd. (For reference, Lightning Bolt have played 8.)

I'd argue Explosions In The Sky is a bad choice for representing a bad weekend, as it was the most hip-hop once since Autechre (Raekwon, Ghostface, De La Soul) and also had Adem, Four Tet and Saul williams in addition to a handful of relatively obscure Japanese bands and maybe the strongest alt-country line up of any year.

I'm probably just too old for it all, to be honest. Piles of people walking round round in ironic 80s clothes (seriously, how into it do you have to be to get a haircut ironically?) just annoys me more than anything else. The pride the guy who had the Thriller leather jacket was wearing it with was just beyond a joke.

Yrs,

Grumpy.

so so many moustaches, too. Never seen so many in my life.

xpost
you're right about Wu Tang, actually. worth it for them alone for hearing Raekwon tell everyone that autograph time was over cause he 'had to take a shit'

Maybe calling it experimental is too strong, but it definitely had a more definite defined curatorial edge to it

yeah this is what i was trying to say really. the crowd has definitely changed a lot since the first one i went to (shellac) most notably at that atp vs. pitchfork one (rip camber) which was full of london scene douchebags.

coley wrote the booklet for the thurston moore curated NIGHTMARE and im pretty sure had a hand in the programming, too

ATP vs Pitchfork was definitely the worst in terms of the crowd (as I recall tonnes of people seemed to go home after the Saturday, although I can't remember why that would have been), the ones I've been to since then have been closer to the old ways. First one I went to was Malkmus / SYouth / Foundation as a naive 18-year-old though, so I can only judge the developments in a minor way.

i just think they need to cast the net out with curators. how bout Byron Coley or something?

dude I have max respect for Byron Coley but what planet are you on

I'm going to the Pavement one, and it looks like a pretty unremitting diet of US indie rock, similar to the Shellac year. Still very much looking forward to it.

One thing that has always annoyed me about ATP is Barry Hogan. He always manages to say something passive-aggressive and charmless in his program notes. I remember one year he made some borderline racist remarks about So Solid Crew being criminals, for no apparent reason.

For me it really isn't about whether there is electronic music or not. As I said it is curatorial aspect that has been lost and with it the surprise and spontaneity. I want to be able to look at the bill and not know who 90% of the bands are, trusting in the wisdom of the curator to make sure I am entertained. I realise this puts me deeply in the minority of people, but I cannot nor ever will be able to understand ppl who think they really need to see deerhoof more than once in their lifetime.

dude I have max respect for Byron Coley but what planet are you on

not gonna happen, i know.

Sorry to keep harping on, but someone made the claim up-thread that Autechre 2003 lost money or was poorly attended. According to this http://drownedinsound.com/news/6162-atp-2003-sold-out-and-lineup-confirmed it did actually sell out.

Here's a note about the Autechre lineup (per discussion upthread on the merits of "unheard" acts at these sort of festivals):

The lists of bands have been around for a while, but here's the full running order for each room and day, you won't have heard of most of them, but that's kind of the whole point.

Nowadays you can predict most any ATP lineup, just pick about half of these bands and then add in another dozen or so similar acts that fit the basic "underground rock" calling card:

SPIRITUALIZED
SHELLAC
TORTOISE
EXPLOSIONS IN THE SKY
DEERHOOF
MOGWAI
FUCK BUTTONS
BOREDOMS performing BOADRUM
MELVINS
DIRTY THREE
SUNN O)))
BARDO POND
EL-P
STEPHEN MALKMUS + JICKS
MODEST MOUSE
LIGHTNING BOLT
OM
GROWING
APSE
ALEXANDER TUCKER
SLEEPY SUN
THE DRONES

Look, I just curated my own ATP!

onimo might attend ATP curated by ilxor

Haha... it's not a knock on the acts themselves, I'd attend that one, too!

More a jab at the somewhat "autopilot" curating...

It's a good list of bands, but not really repetitive when you actually look at the line-ups. Ignoring the 10th Birthday (which was billed as a rehash of past curators and ATP artists) and the American/Australian versions (because if you're crossing continents to go you lose your right to complain about seeing the same bands) the past 9 ATP's have included:

Explosions in the Sky:
-Explosions in the Sky

Patton/Melvins:
-Melvins

Fans 2:
-Spiritualized (acoustic set), Fuck Buttons (chosen by fans), Sleepy Sun

Breeders
-Shellac

My Bloody Valentine
-Dirty Three, Lightning Bolt

Matt Groening:
-Spiritualized (with orchestra), Boredoms

Pavement:
-Drones

Godspeed:
-Deerhoof, Bardo Pond, Growing

Belle and Sebestian:
-none

Max three from the list, only one repeat which was Spiritualized; once acoustic and once with orchestra.

Ah okay, that makes a lot more sense, actually (I'm in the USA). We got all these folks at just two ATP NY events:

SHELLAC
TORTOISE
DEERHOOF
FUCK BUTTONS
BOREDOMS performing BOADRUM
MELVINS
DIRTY THREE
BARDO POND
EL-P
LIGHTNING BOLT
OM
GROWING
APSE
ALEXANDER TUCKER
SLEEPY SUN
THE DRONES

Includes Shellac twice, of course.

you won't have heard of most of them, but that's kind of the whole point.

― I just wish he hadn't adopted the "ilxor" moniker (ilxor), Thursday, 13 May 2010 18:55 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Pretty sure some kid writing on Drowned In Sound in 2003 isn't the arbiter of what their booking policy is or indeed whether I've heard of such total nomarks as, say, Carl Craig or LFO

(if that one did sell out I take that bit back obv - there's still no need for one much like it again when Bloc does more or less the same thing at least as well)

I also found this one quite disappointing: felt like a smaller lineup (say compared to D3ATP), under attended, more Butlin's attractions seemed closed, the botched-up timing at the end indeed, less atmosphere and earlier closing time at the Crazy Horse,...
Still better than other festivals though :)

Max three from the list, only one repeat which was Spiritualized; once acoustic and once with orchestra.

Okay, I knew instinctively that you were wrong, so I went for the most blindingly obvious one. And what did I find? Why, that Shellac played in 2000, 2002, two of the festivals in 2004, 2007 and 2009.

(I'm not going to get into whether repeats etc are bad this time around - I'm going to the festival tomorrow and am hella excited, and was gutted that I missed last weekend, so that's obviously saying something.)

Okay, I knew instinctively that you were wrong, so I went for the most blindingly obvious one. And what did I find? Why, that Shellac played in 2000, 2002, two of the festivals in 2004, 2007 and 2009

I only went back the last 9 UK festivals (as mentioned above and reiterated by only showing the names of the ones I was including), I was more responding to people saying the festival is becoming more repetitive and predictable when the latest UK ones have very few bands in common.

I'm well aware that you can find lots of bands playing multiple times, but you would have to try really hard to see a band more than once within 3 years. Like earlier someone mentioned Sonic Youth had played 8 times (even more if you count Thurston Moore solo), but you would have to include the UK festivals, the stage at Primavera, the Don't Look Back stage at the Pitchfork festival, the ATP's in LA, and the ones NY. I doubt anyone other than Barry would have been in attendence for all 8.

Finally don't get me wrong I like that ATP pulls out some of the same bands, because generally they are amazing live and help make ATP something special (seeing Shellac at ATP is almost some sort of ritual which I have no problem repeating). I think ATP are doing something great and hate to hear people putting down the festival for being the same and predictable every year when its not really the case.

I think ATP are doing something great and hate to hear people putting down the festival for being the same and predictable every year when its not really the case.

My problem is not so much that it's the same names as that it's mostly variations on the same genre i.e. underground/alt/post rock blah blah. I mean it wouldn't hurt them to put on some free jazz sometimes.

I only went back the last 9 UK festivals

Huh, for some reason I thought you meant nine years, which was pretty arbitrary, but not quite as arbitrary as just randomly choosing to only count the last nine festivals. And the later justification of 'few repeats over three years' doesn't work for festivals. If you only went to one gig every ten years but it was always Shellac, you wouldn't say that you're not being repetitive because you hadn't been seeing them every day in between.

it wouldn't hurt them to put on some free jazz sometimes.

They do!

it wouldn't hurt them to put on some free jazz sometimes.

They do!

Maybe they have done, I'd be interested to know who though (I'm not up on each and every bill).

My problem is not so much that it's the same names as that it's mostly variations on the same genre i.e. underground/alt/post rock blah blah. I mean it wouldn't hurt them to put on some free jazz sometimes.

OTM and what I was getting at really.

I think people saying "well you should just go to Bloc" are missing my point a little. Aside from the fact that Autechre 03 != Bloc, my problem isn't that it is X genre and not Y genre,it is that it doesn't really feel like a curator-led festival any more.

have we discussed the Animal Collective one at all? http://www.atpfestival.com/events/atpanimalcollective.php the lineup seems already to be diverging at least a bit from that ATP house style that was being criticised here. Maybe not. I dunno. But I've made my deposit anyway. (Now to develop some money management skills so I can pay the second installment.)

I dunno most of those artists seem pretty normal for ATP to me. Not in a bad way, really.

Is this the main ATP thread? Who's going to Bowlie 2?

Going to gybe.

This is definitely my last, fuck this membership shite. People on other boards were giving them the benefit of the doubt to see how things panned out, but this is just fucking peachy: http://www.atpfestival.com/newsview/1011051419.php

Here is the next set of shows we can offer ATP members extra free tickets for.

12th December - Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Bristol Anson Rooms
SOLD OUT

30th December - Sonic Youth + The Pop Group - Manchester Academy
SOLD OUT

So you're holding back tickets from the public, just to give them to people in your special club? Seriously, fuck you very much Foundation.

No, we're giving a tiny amount of what would have been guestlist spaces to people who've already bought tickets so they can bring an extra person. Which is pretty cool we think. There are no extra tickets for member to buy as such. Both of those shows had tickets on sale for weeks so everyone had a chance to get them.

Pretty sure gybe in Bristol sold out on the day of sale (didn't care tbh, shit venue and was going to Minehead anyway, plus not 100% I even actually want to see them that much).

Another interpretation of what you've just said is that you're letting people pay to be your mates. For a fee, people get to ask to be on Foundation's guest list. Isn't this the sort of thing you used to do as competitions? Or announce for sale? Pretty sure I've seen plenty of "production chalets suddenly available!" news items over the years.

How many spaces are there, out of interest?

I'm not asking you to be Fugazi or anything, but y'know, this is really fucked.

It was on sale for a few weeks at least.

This is no different from any other loyalty scheme. We did a survey and lots of people told us they'd be interested in a members scheme, so we set one up, people get a bunch of stuff up front when they become a member and then when they've again shown loyalty by buying tickets for shows, sometimes we will give them an extra ticket.

I wouldn't say it's particularly mercenary given that we could have easily just sold them all instead, and also how common membership/loyalty schemes are nowadays. If we were charging a high price to become a member i'd see your point, but as it is the membership payment just covers the things you get sent up front.

We'd never hold back a large amount to stop non members getting tickets. When we release production holds for the festivals it's because we don't know until a few months before the event how many band members and crew we need accommodation for. when we do we often need less chalets than we thought we had to hold back, so they can go on sale.

I'm not getting into an extended fight over this, because I've said before that this one is more than likely my last, but seriously, I found this upthread:

The branding thing has reached ridiculous proportions with stupid "secret" shows and organised vice-style chalet parties. A friend of mine said that on the Saturday she turned up at a "chalet party" that was organised by ATP - signs on the door announced that ATP were filming it presumably for the 15 year anniversary DVD.

If you can't see how, if there are people who think like that (and that wasn't me) on a thread YOU'RE FUCKING READING, anybody could get pissed off reading on your website that you are charging people for

priority booking on selected shows, access to members area on ATP website, invitations to special ATP members only events and eligibility for special members only competitions and shop sales

TS:

as it is the membership payment just covers the things you get sent up front

costs £25 + (bf to cover transaction) for the initial year and £10 renewal per year

I think the person quoted is a bit misinformed or confused. There are extra shows arranged sometimes, which we put posters up to announce, but not really any secret ones. Yes bands sometimes play extra shows in their chalets but these are usually open to anyone they invite in. There are no special "vice-style" chalet parties organised by ATP. It's possible other people put things like that on but its without our knowledge or permission; I've no idea where the bit about signs on the door comes from because we already put a disclaimer on every ticket saying that we reserve permission to film attendees across the event so a sign like that wouldn't be necessary.

If people don't want to be a member, that's fine and their ATP experience won't be any different than before. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything, as I said all shows will have all ticket types on sale to the public just like before, and with all the usual discounts. In that regard I'd say it's probably better than something like the Barbican or Royal Festival Hall membership where all tickets go on sale to members weeks before the public, sometimes with no good seats held back for the general on-sale. But for those who are ATP regulars and go to every event the membership is a way to reward them with some cool perks, but it's not something that can be run for free because we're not a charity and it takes time and money to run something like this.

We haven't 100% confirmed future things we might send out, but as the membership is by year, £10 seems like a reasonable renewal fee given the benefits.

I can see where people would think this was going to create two teirs of people coming to ATP, but we've done our best to ensure it doesn't negatively effect anyone that doesn't become a member and that membership isn't an unreasonable financial burden on anyone.

Do you know if The Frogs will be playing any other UK shows around the Animal Collective ATP or if it might be possible for them to do so? I'd love to see them in Glasgow...

Jamie_ATP -

Does ATP have any kind of "exclusivity" clause that prevents performers from playing other nearby shows before or after their ATP appearance? Not being accusatory, but am curious since quite a few established festivals have been dictating this in their contracts.

Occasionally if the name is a big one and we are relying on them as the main selling point of a festival we may, but obviously keeping good relations with bands means not tying them into things like that that would piss them off and not make them want to work with us again. But exclusivity agreements are very common and almost standard practice (even if they're not written into contracts); and not just with festivals (most promoters for example don't want bands announcing another show with a different promoter 2 weeks before their one in the same town) and that's not a recent development from my experience.

don't know about any other Frogs shows yet as its a good way off, but try emailing them, always worth a shot

Thanks. I will try to find an appropriate email address.

One of the highlights of the weekend was Barry Hogan's jilted teenage girl handbags strop in the programme about (presumably) how The Wire said something not complimentary about him recently.

Of course, I expect a DON'T YOU SEE, IT WAS A JOEK response.

Context for everyone else:

we have been described by magazines like the wire as losing our edge and as i am sure their entire readership will be in attendance this weekend they can decide upon that - there's only fourteen of them so it shouldn't take that long.

What a prick.

decent zing tbh

he has an unsympathetic persona shall we say

I had a v good time at this though, esp yesterday evening which featured most of my favourite stuff - Emeralds were next level and Weird Al brought irl lols