Janelle Monae

i really hope this doesn't spiral into the pointless argument that it could, but i'll state for the record that you are crazy wrong

I don't quite understand some of the sneering that's going on over the album's crossover audience. This album seems much more intended for an audience that isn't particularly enthusiastic about the current R&B they hear, not to mention that it's not clear it should even be described as an R&B album. Given the list of artists Monae has the most praise for, and especially the inclusion of Lauryn Hill on that list, why would it be noteworthy that this doesn't appeal to someone who really likes Electrik Red or Cassie? This album has more in common with something like Kate Bush's Aerial or Tokyo Jihen's Adult (or Shiina Ringo's failed Sanmon Gossip) than with a lot of the R&B I see getting praised on ILM. (Not pretending to follow the genre, but I do sometimes lurk on threads I don't post to, check out what's being linked to, etc.) I don't feel like I am the crossover audience here.

Why wouldn't people like an album in a genre they don't normally like (especially in its contemporary form) if it does something along the lines of what they do like?

well i think it's fine for someone to be like "i don't dig modern r&b because of x, y and z and i dig this monae album because it's not that" but i don't think you can then turnaround and posit monae as some sort of transcendent pop/r&b figure who is more important or more adventurous than any artist of the past decade or whatever

Okay, that makes some sense. While I can relate to the level of enthusiasm some critics are expressing, even I find stuff like "Janelle Monae redefines music" just a little ridiculous.

"In view of the indubitable artistic brilliance & cultural relevance of 21st century musical luminaries such as Cassie, Ciara, & Electrik Red, Janelle Monáe falls short."

love when the backup singers murmur 'genocide' in 'locked inside'

ok, 2 songs in and I am in total bliss

would be interested in a rev defense of the album

btw this album is currently the 6th higest rated album in metacritic's history

Haha.

I don't quite understand some of the sneering that's going on over the album's crossover audience. This album seems much more intended for an audience that isn't particularly enthusiastic about the current R&B they hear, not to mention that it's not clear it should even be described as an R&B album.

because (a) people who don't like much modern r&b have bad taste in r&b and (b) it creates a dumb implied binary like "man if you're tired of all that shit on the radio, this is r&b done RIGHT!

xp looool

anyway i think "many moons" is an incredible song and she is pretty incredible live (though i thought she was kind of bad by her standards on letterman) - i've only heard "tightrope" and the of montreal song off this new album, the former of which i thought was kinda the inevitable endpoint of her difficult-to-take at times corny steez (i think she's hella talented but i'm not sure how much of it i can take at once) and the latter of which i'm pretty sure kevin barnes just sent her an outtake from his previous album

incredible incredible

because (a) people who don't like much modern r&b have bad taste in r&b and (b) it creates a dumb implied binary like "man if you're tired of all that shit on the radio, this is r&b done RIGHT!

I'm not trying to have good taste in R&B, or to meet someone else's standards of good taste in music in general.

(b) I'm sure there are critics talking that way. My attitude is pretty much "if you're tired of all that shit on the radio," but I wouldn't say the second part. (Though I might say "this is music done right," which I guess would be even worse. Except I don't think this is the only way for it to be done right. I probably wouldn't say the second part. Maybe just: "try this.")

There's a big big audience that's disaffected with mainstream pop music and this album is for them as much as it is for R&B fans of whatever stripe. No amount of cutting edge pop intelectualizing is going to change their minds. (In fact, most of them are never going to see any of it.)

i'm not sure if we're even talking about real people right now, but the last decade or so (even the last five or three years) has been a pretty remarkable time for mainstream r&b, and if you can't recognize that, or which songs/artists/albums have been great over that time period, i'm not going to listen when you say "now this is how you do r&b!!" because you are wrong and have had blinders on, if not just outright bad taste

^^^^

im not going to listen when they say 'this is how you do r&b' but that doesnt mean im not going to enjoy janelle monae's music

i'm certainly not saying that the two are inextricably tied -- altho if you're positing monae as some sort of transcendent figure, i'm probably gonna think that you're an asshole

& as andy sort of pointed out a few days ago, people who are shouting from the cliffs about her transcendence probably have no idea of the artists who have been putting out music in this vein in recent years, a lot of it better than this, without the pretension & distractions

well i'd call her transcendent in that for better or for worse she incorporates a lot of stuff thats usually outside r&b but obviously shes not transcendent because shes a shining beacon of light coming out of a dry genre, so i think we agree here

by prentension and distractions i assume youre talking about her style? i think this a little harsh and kind of backlash-y

"emotion picture" etc

arachnoid robot suite

it actually has little to do with her & more about people trumping up things that add nothing to the actual music

but she's so original!

:-)

would be interested in a rev defense of the album

― mr. milquetoast (J0rdan S.), Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:10 PM Bookmark

most of it isn't really that theatrical or high-concept, though maybe the few songs that are + her image/marketing make it seem more so than it is. it certainly is less all those things than Metropolis (which I certainly do have reservations about), while being much musically richer. even when it is theatrical, she still pulls it off in better fashion than she did before, because the music is so vibrant. tbh, i really don't think she's dropped her pretences so much as gotten better at artifice, which always means hiding your cards in plain view, if that makes sense. hence, the bowie comparison upthread is apt.

fwiw kev, "Tightrope" and the Of Montreal joint are both pretty far at the wonkier end of the material here.

btw, curious to know who you're thinking of here:

the artists who have been putting out music in this vein in recent years, a lot of it better than this, without the pretension & distractions

i was referring to this post

Genre-bouncing antecedents released after The Love Below: albums by Jazmine Sullivan, VV Brown, Van Hunt, PlantLife, YahZarah, Me'Shell Ndegéocello, (maybe) the Rebel Yell, etc., etc., etc.

― Skank Bloc Polonia (Andy K), Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:32 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark

the last decade or so (even the last five or three years) has been a pretty remarkable time for mainstream r&b, and if you can't recognize that, or which songs/artists/albums have been great over that time period, i'm not going to listen when you say "now this is how you do r&b!!" because you are wrong and have had blinders on

J0rdan, I get what you're saying here -- but what about those of us who dig E.Red/Terius, Ciara, plenty of other mainstream "traditional" R&B, but also really dig the Monae album? Is there anything "blinders on"-esque about enjoying all of the above?

no

i'm talking about a specific set of critics here

I don't really see anyone on that list as doing what Monae does here (Jazmine and Yahzarah aren't far at all from The Audition-era Monae), although there are certainly commonalities.

Nothing is grabbing me from this album at all yet, as much as I like her.

I really like (and genuinely surprised by) the quasi-brazilian stuff that pops up on a couple tracks

i was referring to this post

Genre-bouncing antecedents released after The Love Below: albums by Jazmine Sullivan, VV Brown, Van Hunt, PlantLife, YahZarah, Me'Shell Ndegéocello, (maybe) the Rebel Yell, etc., etc., etc.

― Skank Bloc Polonia (Andy K), Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:32 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark

― mr. milquetoast (J0rdan S.), Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:28 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

do u even listen to this stuff. i mean im a big van hunt fan, but this is diff

nb ive only listened to 2 tracks

of the jm i mean, obv listened to way more van hunt

I haven't been able to read all the thread, so maybe I'm missing something -- but I wasn't implying that all those artists sound alike. "Genre-bouncing antecedents" = antecedents in that they are all genre-bouncing. Not sure how it could get turned into something else (if it did).

btw this album is currently the 6th higest rated album in metacritic's history

are you trying to say that this isn't the sixth best album in music history, because i just paid cash money for it and will be very disappointed if it isn't at least slightly better than

7 Madvillainy by Madvillain 2004 93

8 Live At Reading by Nirvana 2009 93

9 The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads [2004 Version] by Talking Heads 2004 93

10 Love And Theft by Bob Dylan 2001 93

11 Orphans: Brawlers, Bawlers & Bastards by Tom Waits 2006 92

never forget

@perpetua Wow, it would be great if Community never did another awful, awful, awful, awful episode like that ever again.

update: this is not the sixth best album in music history.

hater

eh, i'm no hater. just hasn't knocked me over on first -- casual -- listen. i'll listen again, more carefully. i mean, there's certainly nothing as immediately grabbing as, say, umbrella, but admittedly, that's a high bar to hurdle.

i do like the -- maybe brazilian? -- touches in at least one of the songs.

I wasn't implying that all those artists sound alike.

I realize that, j0rdan kind of was, though.

Only Brazilian-ish thing I can remember is "Locked Inside."

Part of "BabopbyeYa", too.

My favorite thing here is the least fussiest: "Say You'll Go."

I also hear some in the background vocals of "Dance or Die" xp