but since I can't argue for objectivity, it's hard to say that kind of stuff without feeling like I'm trolling someone :/
― Dominique (dleone), Thursday, 23 February 2006 21:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Melissa W (Melissa W), Thursday, 23 February 2006 22:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― mcd (mcd), Thursday, 23 February 2006 22:15 (eighteen years ago) link
Yes, but the point is precisely that the songs aren't interesting. And, as pop songs, I think they fail miserably, as they lack any substance.
― Turangalila (Salvador), Friday, 24 February 2006 00:04 (eighteen years ago) link
For the people who don't like this album, what would you put on instead? I know Melissa said Tago Mago, but to me it doesn't really come that close to the feel of Drum's Not Dead, in Can's music there seems to be much more emphasis on jazz influence (long, winding improvisation) and less on pure rhythm.
― Matt McEver (mattmc387), Friday, 24 February 2006 00:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dominique (dleone), Friday, 24 February 2006 00:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matt McEver (mattmc387), Friday, 24 February 2006 00:30 (eighteen years ago) link
I think the notion that the band isn't inspired and doesn't really believe in what they're doing is not remotely valid ("It sounds joyless and monotonous and uninspired, as if they bored even themselves to death while making it."--Melissa); they're obviously very into um, drums, as their evolution as a band has taken them in a more and more rhythm-centric direction.
Perhaps Melissa is wrong. Maybe they were, in actuality, quite excited whilst recording this album. However, I think the point remains that that excitement, if indeed it was present, didn't translate/reflect onto anything in terms of exploring different sonic possibilities. It's a very limited palette, and, as Dominique pointed out, the resulting sketches are unremarkably simplistic.
For the people who don't like this album, what would you put on instead?Anything else. ;-)
― Turangalila (Salvador), Friday, 24 February 2006 01:01 (eighteen years ago) link
hmm, not comparing sonics (which I might regard as a stylistic element - god I sound like an alien to myself sometimes), it's hard to compare forms and content to other records, chiefly because, like I posted earlier, I don't tend to listen to records that don't seem interesting to me formally, at least a little bit. If we're talking big blocks of structure, big blocks of interraction that don't necessarily evolve or change over time, or are particularly interesting in their own rights, maybe I could say I'd put on the last Orthrelm record. Obviously this is worlds away, stylistically speaking, from the Liars record, but it does involve big, basically simple chunks of monolothic, not extremely inventive forms as a matter of construction. Why I find OV a lot more interesting is 1) because its "parts" seem to pass by quickly (even though in reality, they don't - in fact, it's a very *slow* record in the respect that it takes a long time for different stuff to happen - itself a neat "trick"), so I don't have tons of time to contemplate on its relatively static forms, and 2) it uses its form against itself - that is, it's blasting along for 45 minutes, seemingly never changing (but actually changing), and rather than get bored, I'm lulled ever closer to the smallest details of what's happening. The "big blocks" of activity, of sound, no longer seem like blocks, but of circuits or coastlines or equations that beg to be deconstructed, to be tracked inch by inch. In that light, it seems ultra-intense, unlike my experience with Drum's Not Dead, which is ironically a pretty dead, uneventful experience.
but to be honest, I haven't lived with Liars' record anywhere near as long as I've lived with OV. I was initially drawn to OV just because I thought it sounded cool, and not having that draw with Drum's Not Dead is a big disadvantage
― Dominique (dleone), Friday, 24 February 2006 01:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― cdwill (cdwill), Friday, 24 February 2006 01:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Turangalila (Salvador), Friday, 24 February 2006 01:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― Melissa W (Melissa W), Friday, 24 February 2006 01:29 (eighteen years ago) link
Dom, my complaint on this one isn't to do with accusing these bands of laziness or ease or insufficient meddling (the "presets" issue). I am not against transparency; I'm just not sure that transparency alone excites me. And I do feel like certain acts these days deconstruct their sound to that point of transparency, and deconstruct their form to the point of chaos, and then on some level there's not much left to appreciate. Possibly it's that they believe in formal chaos as an end in itself, which I'm not sure I do; typically when I like something "chaotic" it's because the chaos seems like a side-effect of struggling to create an entirely new kind of "form" (and because it sets that "form" into really stark relief).
This is definitely a side/tangent issue to Liars, though.
― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 24 February 2006 01:38 (eighteen years ago) link
Yeah, I'm not new to that concept, that's why I used the qualifier "particularly." Also, do we really want to admit that any discussion of this stuff is pointless?
"Perhaps Melissa is wrong. Maybe they were, in actuality, quite excited whilst recording this album. However, I think the point remains that that excitement, if indeed it was present, didn't translate/reflect onto anything in terms of exploring different sonic possibilities. It's a very limited palette, and, as Dominique pointed out, the resulting sketches are unremarkably simplistic."--you
"They seem very interested in their subject matter and I think they communicate their interest well, I buy into the whole atmosphere of the album, but whether or not someone else does might be entirely subjective, I'm not sure."--me I don't think simplicity makes it seem less inspired or unremarkable, I could just as easily say its very "focused."
Also, I think it's weird that you'd say there is no "tension/release," because it seems to me that tension and release is a big part of the album.
― Matt McEver (mattmc387), Friday, 24 February 2006 02:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― Turangalila (Salvador), Friday, 24 February 2006 03:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 24 February 2006 10:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― latebloomer: My Baby's A Labrador, He's Beautiful (latebloomer), Friday, 24 February 2006 11:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― latebloomer: My Baby's A Labrador, He's Beautiful (latebloomer), Friday, 24 February 2006 11:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Renard (Renard), Friday, 24 February 2006 23:46 (eighteen years ago) link
it is, for me, quite a primal thing: matt mcever sums it up neatly. there are moments where almost nothing is happening, but fuck me: i love the way it happens. or doesn't. if you see what i mean.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Saturday, 25 February 2006 01:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― Christopher Costello (CGC), Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:11 (eighteen years ago) link
i need to watch the films. the third one especially.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Christopher Costello (CGC), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 17:42 (eighteen years ago) link
yes. they're great!
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― Wax Cat (Wax Cat), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― yer mam! (yer mam!), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:42 (eighteen years ago) link
No, you summed it up quite well. And no, there is nothing "experimental" about this. In fact, that's a part of the problem. It's just... such a nonentity.
― Turangalila (Salvador), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:46 (eighteen years ago) link
i'll probably be back in a month gushing about how much i love this band, knowing me.
― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 19:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link
I reckon though that it's all gonna click and I'm gonna love this album one day.
― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 19:51 (eighteen years ago) link
Liars are more like a happy medium to me and not 'difficult' to appreciate/enjoy at all!
I don't think this record fully delivers on it's promise as an album however (it's the "songs" mainly) but I'm glad I heard it, because they don't sound lazy, and DO sound like a band who could actually take rock forward to somewhere... and that's a bit of a rare quality right now.
― fandango (fandango), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 20:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 20:01 (eighteen years ago) link
Maybe it seems like an attempt at primitivism or naivity that comes across incredibly mannered and inauthentic & deliberately "ooh weird & childish" about it all (yes I know there's rockism in there).
By contrast (to the music) the fairly average male rock guy voices of Liars come across as oddly refreshing!
I very much doubt I've heard enough of AC's ouvre to be certain about all this though.
― fandango (fandango), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 20:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Space Is the Place (Space Is the Place), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 20:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― fandango (fandango), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 20:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 20:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― noizem duke (noize duke), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 20:55 (eighteen years ago) link
Has anybody heard the new Young People? I'm really digging it right now, it's a sister to Drum's Not Dead — carefully plotted, spare, lots of tribal thrumping, creepy vibey. The two records sound GREAT back-to-back.
― Dr. Gene Scott (shinybeast), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 02:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 10:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― file under cozy techno (fandango), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 11:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dominique (dleone), Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:57 (eighteen years ago) link
that's funny. listening to it with people last night who hadn't heard it yet, the comments all were along the lines of "when did beck join black dice?" and "so, these guys have been hanging out with the animal collective, huh."
― prince rupert, Thursday, 23 March 2006 20:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 23 March 2006 20:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― willem -- (willem), Thursday, 23 March 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link