Interesting, though. I think the orchestral arrangements *add* quite a lot to the songs, they change their nature. Not surprisingly, "Sawdust & Diamonds" is the only track that hasn't made much of an impression on me. Something like "Only Skin," on the other hand, is absolutely fascinating.
I can see how someone could say that the arrangements are nice, but it's too much of the same type of texture or vibe or sound for the whole record. It's almost *too consistent*. But I guess it's supposed to be an American song cycle, ala Van Dyke Parks. Or something like that.
It's a bold record---a huge leap for Joanna---and many people will hate it. But there will be new more serious fans. I do think that the average Joe fan that latched on to her last album will be totally lost on this one.
― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 00:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― cosmo vitelli (cosmo vitelli), Saturday, 9 September 2006 00:51 (seventeen years ago) link
― regular roundups (Dave M), Saturday, 9 September 2006 00:56 (seventeen years ago) link
But yeah, Rihm doesn't have one single approach like, say, Boulez or Carter. He's more of a impressionist or collage artist, like Schnittke (but without the humour). What I heard sounded really dull, but I'll give "Jagden und Formen" a try. Any suggestions?
― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:09 (seventeen years ago) link
― M. V. (M.V.), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:32 (seventeen years ago) link
By Joseph Stevenson: "He tends to follow the 12-tone system as used by Anton Webern, Luigi Nono, the later composers William Killmayer and Helmuth Lachenmann, as well as being influenced by the music of Stockhausen and Morton Feldman." Jan Swafford says something similar.
Hmm. So what I heard a long time ago WAS twelve-tone, though, of course, not in the sense of strictly serial music like Webern or Boulez.
So, yeah. Wolfgang Rihm is a bit academic. He was a student of Stockhausen so... obviously some influence there. I'm not really into him personally (now that I'm re-listening to some of his works) and I haven't heard any of his non-twelve tone music.. if there *is* any.
― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:41 (seventeen years ago) link
I'm not saying Vespertine doesn't have more than a couple of slack, draggy moments (Undo, Harm Of Will) but right through there's a clear & direct emotional signal, even the soppy bits. With Joanna it's very often just a chore to hear it through all the games and the hint of incredulity/ridiculousness in her narratives.
That said, I'm not giving up on this (or at least not deleting) yet, my first playthrough was real cynicism busting stuff, and far easier & efficient than I'd anticipated, the songs do have momentum but everything since has been a right old slog.
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:46 (seventeen years ago) link
That's exactly how the strings on Vespertine sound to me. Oh, well.
― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:53 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:53 (seventeen years ago) link
Probably not, but it is the best-selling record in Drag City history, apparently.
― jaymc (jaymc), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:55 (seventeen years ago) link
Ditto. In fact, I generally don't care for lyrics, but I like how she's overtly poetic without coming off as self-consciously clever. It's almost e. e. cummings-like, at moments.
― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 02:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 September 2006 02:07 (seventeen years ago) link
The strings... man, it all comes across so piped after a while, less cinematic than just blandly romantic, the comment about the recording process upthread could well be the most OTM comment in this thread.
And hmmm "without coming off as self-consciously clever" Oh god, I wish that were true because I'm just finding it slightly amusing, but not actually very entertaining, or all that intellectually stimulating and certainly not a whole lot of fun.
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Saturday, 9 September 2006 02:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 02:43 (seventeen years ago) link
Newsom's a harpy. Don't say I didn't warn you.
― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:32 (seventeen years ago) link
Correction. *Pretentious* baby talk.
― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:39 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:51 (seventeen years ago) link
― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:54 (seventeen years ago) link
It's not that I have a low attention span it's just that I begin to stop caring after too long. Monkey and Bear makes me wince too, despite having some of the most engaging and vivid language on here late in that track, overall I find it kind of embarrasing, but then I'm not one for prog much tbh.
If there's an ongoing story running through the whole record I haven't quite worked it out so far though.
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Saturday, 9 September 2006 04:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Saturday, 9 September 2006 04:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― señor citizen (eman), Saturday, 9 September 2006 04:14 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.fromamouth.com/milkymoon/lyrics.htm
― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Saturday, 9 September 2006 06:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Edward III (edward iii), Saturday, 9 September 2006 16:22 (seventeen years ago) link
does this mean what i think it does?
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 9 September 2006 16:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― Edward III (edward iii), Saturday, 9 September 2006 16:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 September 2006 07:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 September 2006 19:39 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 September 2006 19:42 (seventeen years ago) link
CRITIC/SCHOLAR? More like a HYPE MACHINE.
Actually, Tim, we did once meet at La Mesa. Granted, I don't "know" you, but the consensus was that your sexist cracks and "wigga" jokes didn't exactly endure you to anyone.
― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Sunday, 10 September 2006 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 September 2006 20:56 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 September 2006 21:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Sunday, 10 September 2006 21:21 (seventeen years ago) link
*of course academics/freelancers is only a job description, it doesn't say anything about the quality of the music that has been written.
― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Monday, 11 September 2006 08:43 (seventeen years ago) link
At least we get to listen to the finished product and decide it's tough going. Must have been a buggr to transcribe!
― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 11 September 2006 08:51 (seventeen years ago) link
But, yeah if rubbing in your "superior" knowledge on the subject in a cocky way (and completely missing my point in the process) makes you feel any better about yourself, go ahead.
― Turangalila (Salvador), Monday, 11 September 2006 08:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Monday, 11 September 2006 09:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Monday, 11 September 2006 09:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 11 September 2006 13:47 (seventeen years ago) link
Album of the Decade
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 17 September 2006 17:53 (seventeen years ago) link