White musicians and "artistic" use of the N-word: A Discussion and Social History

Yeah, but that doesn't explain why the study found that black children were also biased towards lighter skin.

how pumped is bill magill??

Yeah, but that doesn't explain why the study found that black children were also biased towards lighter skin.

yeah I know I can't really offer an explanation of the whole study, was just giving an example of the kind of psychological developmental sorta issues at play here

re. subliminal acquisition of racism: I read a book by a cognitive psychologist a few years ago (from an academic press, fwiw) in which she cited evidence that kids from day 1 key in on the parents' pupils, and have "built-in" ways of judging from their parents' pupil dilation whether their parents are alarmed at a situation or not. And they "learn" these reactions for themselves right away too---like, day 1. So you may not even be aware of your own "instinctive" racism & maybe you've worked hard to overcome it in your outward behavior / conscious thoughts but your intrinsic physiology may pass it on to your children anyway.

uh I would think there's a pretty big leap from parental pupil dilation to racism to me

re: sleeve, i was being serious, but i sense i have offended.

re: shakey, you're right there must be some component of child self-image that plays into it, but the fact that this negative skin-color bias persists to adulthood (even on participants who are themselves black) suggests that something else may be operating. In fact, wasn't it Obama's face that was used as the test image in the adult bias test?

this is disturbing cause white kids must get the color-biased outlook from somewhere? like their teachers or peers. unless white racism is genetically determined. kindergartners would seem too young to be influenced by popular culture beyond the subliminal level. of course the survey questions could be subtly biased or leading toward this outcome.

― lifetime supply of boat shoes (m coleman), Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:32 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark

no, Shakey; the idea is that babies grok their parents' instinctive reactions to others (they can see the person/situation that's causing fear in their parents' eyes, in reflection, though obv. not in great detail; skin color comes through), and they pick up on skin color patterns with those fears pretty quickly.

re: bill m. & phillip n.

i was initially kinda on bills' side, but phillip makes a very good point about the ways in which jock culture in high school & college formalize a lot of the inequities built into the social structure. kids of a certain class or race may receive special benefits and privileges, but in modern america, these tend to be subtle, tacit. jocks, on the other hand, are often granted explicit license and privilege.

make that "formalizes the inequalities"

haven't taken the time to dig up the studies, but the current thinking = kids are "naturally" racist. regardless of color and absent strong social pressure one way or another, most kids will notice racial differences and will assume that they belong to the "best" group in this regard. it's a way of maintaining a strong, healthy ego in a world of difference. therefore

yeah but again this does not explain why black children are choosing the lighter-skinned children to be smarter as well (this might also puncture the pupil dilation theory)

I was going to mention Tarantino in Pulp Fiction, which I see has come up a couple of times. For me, that falls somewhere between creepy and embarrassing. It amounts to, "I'm Quentin Tarantino, and I've got carte blanche to throw around this word as casually and as glibly as I want--wink-wink, nudge-nudge." In Reservoir Dogs, I didn't have a problem with it; it seemed as part of the fabric of the characters' lives as in The Godfather or Goodfellas. More on topic, I'm drawing a blank beyond X and a couple other obvious examples. "Los Angeles" is a great song. I've never been sure how much distance there is between the band and the word, but it's a great song in any event.

so a blond blue-eyed kid thinks being blond and blue-eyed is beautiful, and when they see other kids that look like that they make that connection. by exclusion, kids who are not like them must not be beautiful, so kids create this scale in their mind that is basically "people who are like me are good/people not like me are not" and then you have to think okay how do you break down this seemingly perfectly natural and logical conclusion my child is drawing...

― insert your favorite discriminatory practice here (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:35 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yeah, but that doesn't explain why the study found that black children were also biased towards lighter skin.

― emil.y, Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:38 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah but again this does not explain why black children are choosing the lighter-skinned children to be smarter as well (this might also puncture the pupil dilation theory)

― dont forget B.Manning's shout-out to Dock Ellis (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:59 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

the study i'm talking about (and lazily refusing to dig up) found that all children express a degree of preference for their own "type"

but yeah, that's potentially in conflict with social messages that attach more value to one type than another

i mean, it's not like there's ever only one factor in play

xp I disagree...I don't think there are two different causes for both racial groups choosing the same answer...I think it's more systematic than that.

Kids are tribal and exclusionary and race (and class and intelligence and social ability) are certainly early and convenient ways of separating people.

"how pumped is bill magill??"

You don't wanna know man, tick me off and i may come over and bench press your house!!!

so a blond blue-eyed kid thinks being blond and blue-eyed is beautiful, and when they see other kids that look like that they make that connection. by exclusion, kids who are not like them must not be beautiful, so kids create this scale in their mind that is basically "people who are like me are good/people not like me are not" and then you have to think okay how do you break down this seemingly perfectly natural and logical conclusion my child is drawing...

AFAIK, lighter skin and more 'European'-looking features are still privileged as 'beautiful' in India, (incl by darker-skinned people). (Certainly were for my parents' generation.)

my sister who slathers herself in fake tan was really freaked out when she lived in india by the skin bleaching creams that were so popular

"I'm Quentin Tarantino, and I've got carte blanche to throw around this word as casually and as glibly as I want--wink-wink, nudge-nudge."
Do you mean the dialogue he writes? or the ones he delivered himself, because his cameo was a little cringey anyway, n-bombs notwithstanding.

xxxp missing the point. to say that white children think that lighter skin denotes intelligence bcz children are exclusionary & tribal, and then to say that black children think that lighter skin denotes intelligence bcz they are programmed to feel inferior...they're something wrong with that statement.

"children are 'naturally' exclusionary & tribal" is what I meant, btw.

yeah i was 100% w/ dialog in Reservoir Dogs

his DNS bit in Pulp fiction brings the film to a screeching halt and pretty much made me want to punch him

maybe there's another category for sly race-baiting that doesn't quite go for anything as strong as the n-word:

i dig the black girls
oh so much more than the white girls
i was so pleased to learn they were faster
c'est c'est c'est vous i'm after

black girls by violent femmes

or even worse

Black girls want to fuck all night long

by that lovely Mick Jagger chap

Some observations as I had as I read over this thread:

1) 10/10 of you fuckers have said something moronic at age 19. In fact, 10/10 of you have said something moronic within the last 2 hours. You're just lucky no one with a mic was standing near you and it didn't get repeated a hundred times to the general public.
2) Jocks don't exist anymore. Everyone who would have been a jock in the past is now a jock/stoner/surfer-dude hybrid.
3) Is every single person in this thread white?

the mighty tag-team of HI DERE & Nabisco I believe are not white...

lol

10/10 of you have said something moronic within the last 2 hours. . .Is every single person in this thread white?

i'm white btw

A real heart-breaking one for me is The Oblivians' "Nigger Rich" - which I'm sure they did as shock value "punk rock" transgressive bullshit on some level - but they're so much fucking smarter than that. Also - and not to harp on Southerners - but something about that coming from a Memphis band is extra depressing

I said something massively stupid just minutes ago, ffs.

itd kindof be awful if white ppl were entirely barred/absolved from holding other white people to account for the racially insensitive things they say. Especially because it would mean even more work for people of colour.

imo.

"2) Jocks don't exist anymore. Everyone who would have been a jock in the past is now a jock/stoner/surfer-dude hybrid."

Despite Obama's vengeance for hoops, I firmly put him in the nerd column, and GWB in with the jocks despite being a cheerleader, and very likely some kind of stoner surfer dude in his youth.

10/10 of you have said something moronic within the last 2 hours. . .Is every single person in this thread white?

^i plead guilty on both counts.

Despite Obama's vengeance for hoops, I firmly put him in the nerd column, and GWB in with the jocks despite being a cheerleader, and very likely some kind of stoner surfer dude in his youth.

^does this type of categorization advance the ball at all?

I meant the dialogue specifically uttered by Tarantino himself. In Reservoir Dogs, he disappeared into his character in that first scene. (I'm being unfair here to the extent that, if you saw Reservoir Dogs on initial release, you hadn't a clue who Quentin Tarantino was; disappearing into his character was a lot easier.) But when he shows up towards the end of Pulp Fiction, he's just doing the kind of wreckless shtick that Bangs wrote about (excoriating himself) in his White Noise Supremacists piece.

jocks def. exist

"wreckless" = "reckless"; I've just got Wreckless Eric on my mind 24-7...I'm just hopeless with typos on this board.

I don't know the timeframe of the study, but maybe Obama's presidency not equalizing child's perceptions of smartness w/r/t skin color has something to do with GWB having the same office previously. So yeah, black nerds need to represent. When you think of physicists, Neil deGrasse Tyson needs to bump out Stephen Hawking for the exemplar spot.

obama was not a nerd, he was a choom gangsta

10/10 of you have said something moronic within the last 2 hours. . .Is every single person in this thread white?

Unfortunately, your clever quoting missed the point I was making... which is that we all say stupid things all the time, and they tend to sound even stupider when you hear them out of context, and when you don't know the person.

Regardless, I think it's worth asking about the racial composition of this thread's participants. I don't like the idea of a bunch of fat, white, pop culture dorks sitting together organizing some kind of social response plan surrounding the word NIGGER. It would be a masturbatory pursuit that would only serve to emphasize the depth of the racial divide, where people pretend like they understand shit about race relations, but who can only speculate based on their own fears, inherited perception of social tensions, guilt, and overall acculturation processes about how people "should" or "shouldn't" talk. Fuck that. This should be a multicultural discussion.

A real heart-breaking one for me is The Oblivians' "Nigger Rich" - which I'm sure they did as shock value "punk rock" transgressive bullshit on some level - but they're so much fucking smarter than that. Also - and not to harp on Southerners - but something about that coming from a Memphis band is extra depressing

― brio, Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:26 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

phil u seem to have this "every one i like isn't a jock everyone i hate is a jock" thang goin on

my bmi is 23.8

i went to the gym this morning

Obama was clearly no nerd

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2010/06/09/PH2010060903176.jpg

res ilx is relatively but inevitably 'narrow' culturally (as opposed to racially which is a slightly different ish).

a bunch of fat, white, pop culture dorks sitting together organizing some kind of social response plan

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