like, all the people who really do love music, but at some point stop seeking more. what are they all about?

also music is not produced in a vacuum, and i don't live in the 1970s, so ideally i'm always going to be looking for something that both comments on and reflects the culture of the moment, if only to help make sense of it. (it helps if it sounds good, too.)

I hate to argue nothing-new-under-the-sun, but I do think at some point you start to feel, if not that you've heard it all, at least that you've heard most of it before. I remember when I was getting into the Chicago Thrill Jockey type stuff for the first time I read negative reviews of Isotope 217 complaining that they sounded like watered-down 70s Miles Davis. At the time I thought the reviewers were a bunch of cranks, but I hadn't really fully delved into the 70s Miles catalog either. At this point I still think those reviewers were wrong, but I sort of understand where they were coming from. I'm increasingly skeptical of claims that a band is doing something genuinely fresh as I tend to be disappointed by those claims 99 times out of 100. A lot of new music, particularly in the indie vein, seems to do superficial sonic variations on a tired formula. Not to say that there isn't new music that sounds genuinely new. Dirty Projectors certainly sounded fresh to me, e.g. Occasionally new hip-hop sounds fresh to me.

I gotta admit I've never understood people like that. I have no clue why anyone would close their ears to new sounds.

new is not necessarily better. hip hop sounds like shit these days imho

I gotta admit I've never understood people like that. I have no clue why anyone would close their ears to new sounds.

― ImprovSpirit, Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:16 PM Bookmark

Yeah. Probably better to just ignore an entire thread of insights into the phenomenon so we can go on feeling clever classless and free huh?

lex's brave efforts to soldier on under the delusion that paying attention to pop charts is somehow essential to maintaining a connection to other people/the larger social world never fails to amuse

its not that i think ive heard it before, i havent, but ive heard it better. lots of hip hop/pop/R&B sounds brand spanking new cos of the tech theyre using but it doesnt mean its not shit.

Hurting 2 should definitely enlighten us all as to what we feel. I had no idea I felt those things & I am definitely refreshed and uplifted by this knowledge.

I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if this is redundant but this is really just all about identity, right? Like a certain small group of people self-identify as being "really into music" and part of that identity is the idea that you keep up on all the new music and have something to say about all the new bands. But often people's identities change over time and they change so that there are things they consider more important to their lives and their self-conceptions than making the effort to listen to every single new band. My wife is like this, she loves music and sometimes she'll latch on to some new band I'm listening to but if left to her own devices she'd pretty much just listen to the Pixies and Throwing Muses and other stuff she liked in college. Over the past few years, she's been a lot more interested in getting pregnant and being a good mom, and I think her dominant identity right now is "mother to be" rather than "music fan," which seems healthy and normal. It's not really that unusual to change as a person over time.

Personally, I kinda quit paying attention to music around ten years ago when I started playing in my own bands and getting involved in the local music scene. Over that time I'v pretty much focused all my attention on local artists, CDr releases, 7"s, 3 or 4 gigs a week, etc. Some of my high school favorites I still keep track of (Flaming Lips for example) but I really haven't heard anything that interested me as much as something one of my friends made.

On that note, I can see if I ever have a kid or end up with a full-time job again, I'll probably slip away from those connections.

re: levitin's this is your brain on music, i'm a big fan of dumbed-down-for-masses books but in this case, I think it might be worth seeking out the primary sources --
I don't know if Levitin still teaches, but if you can get ahold of his course materials, they are a lot richer without being harder to digest.

Well, the reason I'm interested in the Levitin book is because I read the Sacks book (which was a lot of primary source type stuff) and found it almost too dense and technical in places. (And I'm a happy devourer of quite technical SCIENCE! books.) So I kinda want to read the dumbed down populist version as well.

the Levitin book is good if dry in spots.

i've definitely had periods of not being interested in any new music at all, but lately i've been genuinely enjoying "keeping up", and i that's due to 1) trying to finish a record over the past year made me feel like i had some sort of stake in what's going on, at least in certain niches, and 2) being discerning about the full-length records i actually listen to. it's easier than ever to check out one or two tracks from a band, but if i torrented everything just because it might be interesting i would go f'n insane from the media overload. i've really been enjoying getting one or two records a month that i'm pretty sure i'll be really into, and actually listening to them (like in high school, kinda).

I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if this is redundant but this is really just all about identity, right?

see i don't really agree w/this in the sense that you are talking about--music is v. personal for me, i really only listen to it while alone, almost never talk about it irl with my gf or anyone else, don't feel the need to "keep up" so i'm part of something or have something to say--it's p. much just a fulfilling hobby for me and something to do when i walk or drive somewhere. i guess if you ask ppl who know me they all know i have fucktons of records but i don't feel like my "identity" is tied up in that.

I kind of disliked the Levitin book? Seemed too basic.

there was a tapeop interview with Levitin that was pretty good -- and his college lectures were good as well, without being overly technical -- to the point that I wished he had released a compilation of things like that instead of the book.

...its also good to know that I was hallucinating when I read the thread, determining that there's likely as many reasons why this happens as there are people who fall into the trap.

Many become occupied with "life" & don't have the time and/or $ to explore for good new music or they lose interest during the "children's music" phase many go through trying to entertain the kids. Some stop caring & just listen to whatever is on the radio or TV & are highly unlikely to come across college stations that might hit'em with something new that catches their ear. Like any other facet of life, music is subject to fundamentalist attitudes & the closed-mindedness that goes along with it. Some prolly think they're staying current, like when an Allman Brothers fan listens to Gov't Mule even though the new generation may not be really offering anything 'new' in any real sense. Perhaps they hail from an era where it was a bit easier to tell where artistic lines were drawn: A Jerry Lee Lewis fan who hears someone described as 'rock & roll' in the late '50s. A record filed under 'punk' next to the Ramones LP you bought & loved. So, you go to the record emporium and buy a record with 'long-haired freaky people' on it like The Mothers of Invention or Black Oak Arkansas, only to find out that they play 'new age' or Bavarian wedding music & you become a bit gun-shy about experimentation. For some, despite appearances, music was never anything more than sonic room-spray anyway & the lack of true engagement becomes harder to conceal as time goes by... I'm sure I'm overlooking a myriad other possibilities.

I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if this is redundant but this is really just all about identity, right?

Yeah, this is maybe an obvious point but OTM. I think the period in which I was most passionate about keeping up with music was about five years ago, when I was getting the majority of my social and intellectual stimulation from music: listening to it, playing it, talking about it, writing about it. (I was in a band, I had a music blog, I wrote for a music website, I wasted time on three separate music message boards.) Being into music was simply a big part of who I was, more so than it was ever was before and after.

@ ImprovSpirit: I think you're painting a kind of simplistic picture of things, and one that certainly isn't going to apply to most ILM posters in any case. What I'm getting at is that I'm a person who would enthusiastically check out Bavarian Wedding Music, new age, or whatever, and yet I still find myself less enthusiastic about checking out new music than I was even five years ago. Yes, some of this is rejiggered priorities (I'm married and have chosen a fairly demanding career), and some of it is a bit of a thrill-is-gone feeling. But it's certainly not that "music was never anything more than sonic room-spray anyway & the lack of true engagement becomes harder to conceal as time goes by" -- in fact I think this is a pretty condescending thing to say about anyone who purports to enjoy music, as though anyone who hasn't trawled the Secret Museum of Mankind and the ESPDisk catalog is some kind of phony who doesn't "really" enjoy music.

jaymc: if you don't mind my asking, what changed?

see i don't really agree w/this in the sense that you are talking about--music is v. personal for me, i really only listen to it while alone, almost never talk about it irl with my gf or anyone else, don't feel the need to "keep up" so i'm part of something or have something to say--it's p. much just a fulfilling hobby for me and something to do when i walk or drive somewhere. i guess if you ask ppl who know me they all know i have fucktons of records but i don't feel like my "identity" is tied up in that.

― call all destroyer, Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:57 PM (1 hour ago)

wait, but you obviously do "keep up" to some degree though?

yeah, i mean i "keep up" because i need new stuff to listen to, not because it validates my participation in culture or some such nonsense

got it

jaymc: if you don't mind my asking, what changed?

Do you mean what changed to get to that point, or what's changed since?

Being into music was simply a big part of who I was, more so than it was ever was before and after.

Just curious what changed to make music less a part of who you are.

I also must admit that I have not read this entire thread, but totally will when I have a spare hour. Lots of interesting insight on a phenomena I've noticed in a lot of my friends over the past 8 - 10 years.

I've never really felt bad about not being as into music as I was as a teen. At that point, I was dropping all expendable income (which was 100% of my income) on music. This decreased when I got to college, b/c I didn't have to pay for it as much (loldouble-deck cassettes and high speed dubbing) and then again with the proliferation of recordable digital music, and then with the internet and file sharing, etc. If I look at it, I probably get the same amount of new music as I did back then, but I've got so much more to do with my days that sitting pondering the lyrics of a new release for an hour is something I (unfortunately) cannot engage in.

Along with that, I try to not pigeon-hole myself and avoid whole areas of music. If I ever find myself doing so, my reaction is typically to seek out someone who is into that music, ask them for some recs, and do some listening, and I can invariably find something I enjoy about it. From this, I've sort of moved into a brain space where I don't feel bad about missing some music or not hearing some particular artist prior to my hearing them. In other words, if having heard a certain artist or album or track is taken as a sign of status by someone, it isn't by me. If the music is meant to come to my ears, it will, at some point.

NOW, all of this being said: Music is easily my favorite pastime, apart from the love act (digression, quickly avoided). Playing it, hearing it, discussing it . . . I cannot point to any other thing which has brought me so much joy, satisfaction and pure benefit to my life as much as music has. Its THIS last statement which keeps me constantly wanting to learn new music, hear new music, play new music, and I all-too-often find myself at the end of a week thinking "I haven't picked up my guitar in HOW LONG? CHRIST, why don't I just sell them and get a few new suits or something?" ( THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN )

So, I guess the insistent voracity with which I previously acquired new music has been tempered by life, and this bears noting, because it is easily identified as my favorite thing, and I cannot think of my life without it. Therefore, I am reminded to check and see if there's something ELSE out there that I might like.

to that end, check out www.kusf.org for archives of some pretty great radio shows. At least one iLXor with whom I share parents is a dj there, and his show by itself has turned me on to some AMAZING stuff in the past six months. Big up!

Just curious what changed to make music less a part of who you are.

Well, I do still think it's a big part of me. But I'm not as consumed with it as I once was. Basically what happened: Got into a long-term relationship, became more invested in my day job, quit the band I was in, realized I wasn't cut out to write about music professionally, became interested in things like politics and TV shows and beer and crossword puzzles, etc. In some ways, I feel like music just happened to be the thing that I latched onto at a particular time in my life when I was looking to latch onto something.

yeah, that makes complete sense. I feel the same way, basically; I'm still really interested in music, but there are other things that I want to start paying more serious attention to, and doing that will make it so that I spend less time focused on music

Pretty much what happened over here.

@ Hurting 2: I didn't say you were one of those people, however I do think its a possibility that such people exist & it may contribute to an explanation of the overall issue. The theoretical person who got the Bavarian wedding music record had to play it (check it out) in order to find out it wasn't what he thought it was going to be. My point was that next time he/she is browsing, they may be less likely to experiment in any way & increasingly so as time goes by. I stand behind the possibility that such things could erode one's desire to experiment over time. My simplistic point was that its (ironically) extremely complex & I suspect there may be a relatively small number of people who have lost interest in music frequenting ILM in the first place. I have to say I do contend that people who have trawled the ESP Disk catalogue are more likely to be "really" into music than those who haven't, in very much the same way people people who are interested & curious enough to explore for obscure gems in ANY field would likely enjoy that field more. I don't see that as condescending. In fact it just sorta makes sense to me.

It's almost worth a separate thread: does bachelorhood affect consumption? As a single man I've more time to spend watching movies, reading, and listening to music than I would, presumably, if I had to share time with another guy; yet I don't have to worry about children or pleasing each other's families, so maybe my life won't change much?

(xxxp to myself:) (Which is not to say that it was totally arbitrary. I mean, I've always been into music, but becoming interested in lots of different kinds of music, as well as music criticism/discourse, was particularly useful for me in my mid-20s: as a subject for writing I wanted to engage in, as a social avenue, etc.)

i spend a lot less time on books, movies, and video games than i did before i was in my current relationship, but i mostly listen to music on the way to work and at work, so that hasn't been affected much.

It's almost worth a separate thread: does bachelorhood affect consumption? As a single man I've more time to spend watching movies, reading, and listening to music than I would, presumably, if I had to share time with another guy; yet I don't have to worry about children or pleasing each other's families, so maybe my life won't change much?

― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, June 29, 2010 2:50 PM Bookmark

I'm sure this is the case unless you happen to find a partner who is both as into consuming culture as you are AND into consuming the same kind of culture. It can be as simple as the fact that if you live with someone, you're less likely to put on music that the other person doesn't like while doing the dishes, and simple things like that cut into the total amount of time you spend on music you like. I also find that listening to music around someone that I know is not as into it as I am lessens my own enjoyment of it - almost as though I partly hear it through their ears. On the flipside, however, I consume a lot more contemporary art than I used to, which is great in its own right.

almost as though I partly hear it through their ears

totally true

It's almost worth a separate thread: does bachelorhood affect consumption?

Certainly doesn't hurt.

Partly true – I can't enjoy the experience because I'm nervous watching them, and if they're interested in music their comments matter.

TS: subjecting significant other to unloved music via speakers vs. neglecting/ignoring significant other while wearing headphones

It's almost worth a separate thread: does bachelorhood affect consumption?

In my case, most definitely. Before I started dating my girlfriend, I would stay up until ungodly hours downloading stuff and drunkenly posting on ILM. I also used to go to sleep listening to music, and I teased my girlfriend, several months into our relationship, that I wasn't getting into as many ambient/electronic albums anymore because my ideal venue for listening to them was in bed. Of course, I still play music around the house a lot, and there are bands that we both like and listen to together, but she's by no means as much of a music-nerd as I am, so we end up also devoting time to things like cooking or watching TV (both of which I rarely engaged in when I was single).

Partly true – I can't enjoy the experience because I'm nervous watching them, and if they're interested in music their comments matter.

Tom Ewing's most recent Pitchfork column:

There's a kind of experience I think every music fan has had. I call it the "bad ears": It's a kind of one-on-one Wyatting, and it's what happens when the assumptions you make flip over and leave you the one vulnerable. It's when you're with a friend, and you play them some music you like and you want them to like too. They don't say anything. And suddenly you're hearing it with the bad ears: Every pretension, every flaw in the music becomes utterly obvious to you. The lines you thought were terrific are revealed as facile. The lines you thought were lovably dumb are chasms of embarrassment. The song ends. You want to vanish. And your friend smiles and says "Yeah, that was good," and then it's their turn.

you're less likely to put on music that the other person doesn't like while doing the dishes

^^^ or reading, or playing with the baby, or anything really. I have a night or two a month where after the family is asleep I have a couple beers, put on the headphones and either listen to old LPs/CDs, or (rarer) some new music I've acquired.

The rest of the time I probably have the Nat King Cole Trio on.

It's almost worth a separate thread: does bachelorhood affect consumption?

Totally. One hundred percent.

Not necessarily the AMOUNT of consumption, but the TYPE, for sure. When you are in a relationship with another person, and especially when you share living space with them, you cannot help but have your consumption patterns/amounts affected by that sharing.

I play a lot less video games than I used to. I also go to a lot less live shows than I used to. This begins to change tonight. TONIGHT, I SAY! well, at least with regards to music. Its going to be on all the time, from now on. Period.

Foot. Put. DOWN.

It's when you're with a friend, and you play them some music you like and you want them to like too. They don't say anything. And suddenly you're hearing it with the bad ears: Every pretension, every flaw in the music becomes utterly obvious to you. The lines you thought were terrific are revealed as facile. The lines you thought were lovably dumb are chasms of embarrassment.

Yes, this. And that in turn makes me think that ALL musical experience requires that you 'buy in' to a certain extent, like you have to allow yourself to get into a certain trance and the wrong influence breaks the trance.

Really? Is this a gender thing? If I'm doing the dishes, I'm gonna listen to whatever the fuck I want.

oh there's definitely things my wife will complain about having to listen to. Steely Dan, for example.

(otoh I complain whenever she makes me listen to AC/DC so it's all good)

a kid in the equation alters things even further - loads of hip hop is basically totally inappropriate for anyone under the age of like 14 or 15

xxpost

Heh, my wife too. She told me to save the Dan for Jack and Larry's wild night out at the Regal Beagle.