White musicians and "artistic" use of the N-word: A Discussion and Social History

yeah we're basically the new university of frankfurt

well when people say they volunteer and stuff because "it makes them feel good" there ya go right there. i used to think the genealogy of morals by FN was the bomb when i was younger. i should re-read it.

my brother in law has a big problem with the golden rule. um, for what that's worth. i remember having an argument about it with him.

I did it all for the nookie

the entire point of the altruism/selfishness argument is to defend the idea that self-interest and selfishness aren't inherently bad concepts, not to defend the idea that altruism is evil; it should be okay and in fact encouraged to selfishly do things that help other people because um you are helping other people

― emo WINNER! (HI DERE), Wednesday, July 7, 2010 1:29 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmarkthat's true, but i've also heard it used to establish moral equivalence between ostensibly selfless and obviously selfish acts. like, "there is nothing uniquely wrong with egregious selfishness, because everyone is basically selfish, even people who seem or claim to be acting altruistically. it's all the same, and no one can claim the moral high ground, because everybody's just doing what they want." and while logically sound, i think that argument is BS on a moral level. it's simple nihilism, and it's often presented with a smug smirk - not that i'm accusing you of smugness.

it's interesting the way that capitalism has incorporated altruism as a sales pitch

:/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyK3RoDYZPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-z-mQyvkO4

"This is about ARTISTIC use, so keep shit like Skrewdr1ver and Dav1d Allen C0e"

Why is it that racism can't be artistic? Like "hate" is some inert dark matter that can't have anything to do with real art. Is "Black Korea" somehow "more artistic" than 5kr3\/\/dr1\/er, and if so why? (Bonus pts for not falling back on the "racism is prejudice plus power")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4a3V0f72-s

I mean it makes no sense to act like that Guns n Roses N-word is somehow "more artistic" than Coe doing it when it's obviously just plain ol racism that Axl later explained away as babby Axle being "too real." The oi and outlaw country guys don't think they're being legitimately racist either, half the time. If we're gonna talk about "artistically" using a word, we may as well define what we mean.

no one here claimed that axl rose's use of the word served any legitimate artistic purpose. with others, like patti smith and cocorosie, the consensus was that their use of the word was ill advised in the end, even if their intention wasn't to express racism.

expressing racism is not a valuable artistic enterprise.

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-love-fp-21.png

Is anyone here defending "Black Korea"?

Showing off your working knowledge of actual racist music is just wink-wink bullshit and the thread doesn't need it.

Winky G. Winkgarten

thought for sure that this revive was going to be about Honey G

punkishippies is always on about this shit

We should probably get into how Douglas Pearce is misunderstood while we are at it

Can't be bothered to read thread. What did we decide about The Classical in the end?

I guess I'll give punkishippies that the distinction between 'artistic' use of a racial slur and 'actually racist' use is vague and worth questioning. I agree that GnR were being actually racist in "One in a Million".

xp i always thought the use of the word, in "the classical," modified as it is with the word "obligatory," wass supposed to point out how societies have this tendency to marginalize certain groups -- sort of a foucauldian thing. the target is not the out group, but society, for creating out groups.

however, i am reading now that he is targeting the bbc's tendency toward tokenism, putting a few black people in the crowds of televised performances. this is a less defensible use of the word in my view. the target is still the "bbc" but the black people in the crowd are also being singled out in a very disrespectful kind of way.

inconclusive.

30 albums and he never did it other than 20 seconds into his would-be breakout record. total provocateur move, still makes me a bit uncomfortable though

I mean, it's meant to, yeah yeah

definitely mars a song with otherwise amazing lyrics

ts: 1981 vs. 2016

recent events reminded me of this classic exchange upthread:

Slayer: two Latinos and a Jew (Kerry King). Granted, the other guy is about as Aryan as you can get and is obsessed with Nazi imagery, but what are you gonna do.

― Chicago to Philadelphia: "Suck It" (Bill Magill), Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:38 AM

not be obsessed with nazi imagery

― max, Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:39 AM

lol