*torrenting now*
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:09 (thirteen years ago) link
people have the weirdest complaints about this album
― ὦὦὦ █▄█ ▀█▀ ▀█▄ ὦὦὦ (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:11 (thirteen years ago) link
haha thirstin howl?
looking forward to future references in this thread to pumpkinhead, breez evahflowin, and sir menalik
― the reverend dr. william wiggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:28 (thirteen years ago) link
haha
i cant be the only one who hears it.
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:29 (thirteen years ago) link
wishing i had one of the soundbombing comps on my ipod like a mutha right now tbh
thirstin was dope
― the reverend dr. william wiggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:31 (thirteen years ago) link
soundbombing 2 was underrated imo
― emotional radiohead whatever (Jordan), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:39 (thirteen years ago) link
underrated in retrospect by herbs who are ashamed of their backpack past maybe?
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:43 (thirteen years ago) link
^^
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:44 (thirteen years ago) link
thirstin's skilligans island was one of the best albums of that era btw.
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:45 (thirteen years ago) link
i really want to start a thread about "black-tracking" which is my theory that white rock critics love to REALLY BACK african-americans who makes remotely avant-garde music for the maybe span of like two years and then deem it "LOL SO CORNY" by the end of the decade. It's happened as long as I've been listening to music and it's super-racist and really fucking sucks
Tracy Chapman - P&J #3, 1988Terrance Trent D'Arby - P&J #25, 1989PM Dawn - P&J #5, 1991Arrested Development - P&J #1, 1992; P&J #12, 1993Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy - P&J #19, 1992
I don't feel like looking up the rest, but same shit happened to Tricky, Rawkus, Def Jux, etc.
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:55 (thirteen years ago) link
Oh, and grime
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:57 (thirteen years ago) link
Wyclef Jean: Wyclef Jean Presents the Carnival Featuring Refugee All-Stars
^^^ this finished at No. 16 in 1997
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 15:59 (thirteen years ago) link
terrance trent's "weird" albums aren't that weird and are really good actually.
I am never ashamed of liking backpacker stuff!
actually just downloaded The Appetizer a free EP by Punchline and Fokis, pretty awesome, came out last year i think....
― the reverend dr. william wiggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 9 July 2010 16:00 (thirteen years ago) link
Can't you apply that hindsight to lots of music that critics turned around went lol wtf was i thinking, no matter what race/genre is involved?
― fuque santa cruz (a hoy hoy), Friday, 9 July 2010 16:01 (thirteen years ago) link
I think Whiney is OTM re: critical reaction to this stuff but for the record...
... I hated all this crap when they came out.
― Master of the Manly Ballad (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 July 2010 16:02 (thirteen years ago) link
except for Tricky, that first album is really good
it's just reactionary, I think. White critics priveleging stuff for what it's not (ie mainstream black culture which is too "scary"/alien for them)
― Master of the Manly Ballad (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 July 2010 16:03 (thirteen years ago) link
also - the pattern of only liking black music for being 'avant garde' or 'state of the art' and not being interested in much else about it.
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Friday, 9 July 2010 16:05 (thirteen years ago) link
were these guys really avant garde though? michael franti? pm dawn?! i think they were liked for other reasons (being musical/conscious rappers etc)
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Friday, 9 July 2010 16:06 (thirteen years ago) link
(pm dawns second album had some great stuff on it btw)
um, being reactionary doesn't make it any less racist, particularly when it always follows the pattern of "wow this is neat, black people don't do this! I love it!" ----> "ugh this is corny, why don't they do what black people do?"
xp: PM Dawn and Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy were pretty avant-garde given what was going on around them when they both hit the scene, particularly DHOH and their appropriation of industrial music.
― "Don't forget to bring a juggalo towel!" (HI DERE), Friday, 9 July 2010 16:07 (thirteen years ago) link
lol yeah - wasn't to implying it isn't racist!
― Master of the Manly Ballad (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 July 2010 16:13 (thirteen years ago) link
I can't tyupe todaye
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, July 9, 2010 8:55 AM (49 minutes ago) Bookmark
since it's on radar, add the love below. maybe not "avante-garde", but boundary pushing in a way that's similar to tracy chapman, TTD'arby. loved by many critics upon release, looked at askance a few years down the road.
― good news if you wear cargo shorts (contenderizer), Friday, 9 July 2010 16:51 (thirteen years ago) link
laughable how critics (eg the guardian) talk about the way you move being as good a single as hey ya really.
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Friday, 9 July 2010 16:51 (thirteen years ago) link
race plays into this, but there's also a tendency among certain fans & critics (myself included) to gravitate to the weird & experimental in pop at the time of its release ... but then to retrospectively devalue it in favor of that which proves durable/universal over time. this tendency overrates novelty in the short run, overrates traditionalism in the long.
― good news if you wear cargo shorts (contenderizer), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:03 (thirteen years ago) link
got any non-black examples
― Master of the Manly Ballad (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:05 (thirteen years ago) link
beck?
― young werther's originals (s1ocki), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Well PM Dawn really started sucking, so that may be why critics distanced themselves.
― he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:26 (thirteen years ago) link
Beck's best work seems to still be held in high regard, no...? Odelay, Minite Vultures, One Foot in the Grave, for example. That recent Beck poll got a LOT of votes
― Master of the Manly Ballad (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:29 (thirteen years ago) link
I was gonna say, Beck still gets plenty of crit love in certain circles.
― he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:32 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah dude, I think Odelay is looked on with way more regard than Of the Heart, of the Soul and of the Cross: The Utopian Experience
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:33 (thirteen years ago) link
I don't know a single critic or rap fan who liked soundbombing when it dropped and doesn't now. I think whiney is full of it. Y'all forget that the gangsta populist rap is cool now crew was made up of new jacks who didn't get into rap until they were in their mid 20s
― blap...tremendo (deej), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Also pm dawn and michael franti always sucked? Tracy chapman was always p lame? This theory needs work.
― blap...tremendo (deej), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:35 (thirteen years ago) link
PM Dawn is awesome
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:36 (thirteen years ago) link
i dunno, i think beck is a good example. odelay seems to be held in much lower regard now than it once was. i seem to remember it being heralded as some kind of epochal event on release. seen now as a good/fun nostalgia piece, like "shit, remember the 90s?"
back when there used to be electroclash, novelty appeal led critics to foam about all kinds of stuff that they turned their backs on in a heartbeat. peaches, anyone?
(love u peaches btw}
― good news if you wear cargo shorts (contenderizer), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:37 (thirteen years ago) link
By yr theory why has kool keith maintained his critical respect? Why are outkast getting praise to the point where big boi's solid but not exact?y mindblowing solo record is a bnm ??
― blap...tremendo (deej), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Dude, Pitchfork just called Beck one of the 100 best albums of the decade, i think that's critics holding him in higher than Michael Franti
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Cool, deej, be sure to the same annoying logic games you play with our Gucci argument. "Whiney said X happens a lot, so he must mean X must happen EXCLUSIVELY"
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah contenderizer's got a good pt here actually _ I don't think u can speak so broadly about why some acts keep critical respect and some lose it. I'll be the first to say race enters into how critics receive everything but this theory has too many exceptions to make a rule.
― blap...tremendo (deej), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:40 (thirteen years ago) link
what's the critical consensus on Basehead now?
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Dog your theory has more holes than swiss cheese don't act like that's more about vendettas than normal criticism
― blap...tremendo (deej), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:41 (thirteen years ago) link
I know MIA's not black, but every critic rushing to call her a retard all of a sudden probably fits into this too somehow.
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:44 (thirteen years ago) link
uh she is a retard
― the resulting pussy stubble (J0rdan S.), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:45 (thirteen years ago) link
racist
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:46 (thirteen years ago) link
i know :-(
― the resulting pussy stubble (J0rdan S.), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:46 (thirteen years ago) link
wtf is going on with your display name?!
The one generalization I think u can make here is that critics are just as bad/worse than the general public at jumping on every single trend when its new and shiney and are as quick to drop it when they realize it might make them look stupid. Lots and lots of bandwagon jumping
― blap...tremendo (deej), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:47 (thirteen years ago) link
critical respect for kool keith seems stuck in some weird divide where the artist is respected, but there's some hesitancy about the crowd he appeals to. which isn't the same as a retraction of praise, but it's guarded, somehow. outkast are a perfect example of short-lived novelty appeal, cuz big boi's last couple recs are much more rap-traditional than TLB. a lot of people went nuts for TLB in the moment, then stepped back, while big boi's rep has steadily improved.
and maybe i'm wrong about odelay. rarely see beck mentioned as a touchstone in describing interesting contemporary music, but do hear a lot of "lol beck" chatter. random talk probably isn't the best measure of critical respect though.
― good news if you wear cargo shorts (contenderizer), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:47 (thirteen years ago) link
xxpost
I got 20/1 odds that it's kenan-related
― Attention all Whiney fans! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 9 July 2010 17:47 (thirteen years ago) link