The Smiths: Classic or Dud?

sometimes hes witty. other times his humour is just ropey.

i think he's a lot funnier (even when he's not trying particularly hard) than your average wordy joe schmuck fishing for laughs

I went to see Andy Rourke do a DJ set tonight. I had a great time. At the end of the night he let me put on his glasses! He has the coolest glasses, I'm sorry. They're prescription he said, but they're sortof...half sunglasses, half not. They make him look sortof Lennon-ish or Liam-ish from far away I guess. Just slightly square in shape. I love them. He played two Pixies tracks (both from Doolittle), Devo's "Whip It", T-Rex's "Telegram Sam", a mashup of Blondie's Rapture and Doors' Riders On The Storm, ended the set with Stone Roses "I Am The Resurrection" and Doves "M62". There was also a new-ish song I liked and didn't know and went to his computer screen to find out what it was. It was by The New Young Pony Club called "The Get Go". He also played a bunch of other dance music I didn't recognize but was fun to dance to.

Oh also, I asked him what was on his T-shirt because he had a sportcoat and you couldn't see it. So he showed me and it was an arty colorful silhouette pic of Betty Page with something else on top of it.

There were some pretty cool bands who played as well. That is all.

Also the only Smiths song he played was Bigmouth.

What I fail to understand, though, is Morrissey's new arrangement of some of the old Smiths songs. I don't even want to *link* to the new version of This Charming Man I heard the other day on youtube. It sounded like the fucking Jonas Brothers.

Hahah. I dunno, man. I can't help you. I tried his new album one time and I couldn't even get through half of it. Sorry.

;)

I went to see Andy Rourke do a DJ set tonight

Jealous of this. Didn't know Rourke was DJ'ing now. I assume he's financially secure (despite hostilities between the band members on money-matters), so maybe he's just having fun.

Yeah, he's doing this in other cities as well, and what was more interesting to me was learning that he actually came out here two years ago to this Brit Pop thing my friend DJ'd at.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention he played two Clash tracks, too. Maginificent Seven...and...was it Train In Vain?

http://bandwidth.wamu.org/there-at-a-special-time-a-d-c-punk-on-her-teen-years-touring-with-the-smiths/

http://www.studio1469.com/events

In 1985 and into 1986 then 17 year-old DC photographer Nalinee Darmrong traveled with and captured The Smiths during the height of their : the Meat Is Murder and The Queen Is Dead tours.

Now she has a book out with photos and ephemera, and a gallery exhibit

I love arguing with Morrissey fans about how The Smiths would've had a perfectly satisfactory career with any other singer in Moz's place because the musicians in the band were good at their jobs and Marr was/is something of a guitar savant. They're not having it, of course.

depends what you mean by "satisfactory" I guess

w out Moz there's none of the iconography, no foregrounding of transgressive gender/sexuality, no ridiculous song titles/lyrical hooks. Marr needed a co-writer/lyricist, as his solo career has borne out.

Would they be legendary? Unlikely. But they would have fared perfectly fine in that mid-80s London guitar pop climate. Morrissey contributed fuck all to the actual music of The Smiths, that's all Marr. Plenty of other singers could have stepped in and done a capable job with those songs.

probably true, but they'd have been on the level of Heaven 17 or Aztec Camera or something.

Morrissey's vocal melodies run all over Marr's songs in really strange and unique ways, I don't think that's "fuck all" - it's just one more thing that makes them interesting. He doesn't structure a lot of his melodies in standard verse-chorus-hook ways, things repeat (or don't) at odd intervals, etc.

christ on a fucking something

What a tsunami of wank

Shakey, uh, otm

we know Moz is a doddering loon now, but curb your revisionism

yeah that is a ridiculous thing to argue

i assume it's only a matter of time till ppl start saying "the beatles would have been just fine without john lennon"

lol yeah Smiths would have been huge without Morrissey just like Chapterhouse

perfectly satisfactory career

You guys have totally twisted my position, but ok.

they would have fared perfectly fine in that mid-80s London guitar pop climate.

why would they have even moved to London without Morrissey's lyrics, drive, and personality

Dud

Morrissey and Marr clearly needed each other and complimented each other perfectly. And they would be forgotten by now without Morrissey.

The musicians in most canonical rock bands are probably accomplished enough that they could have had "perfectly satisfactory careers" with different lead singers.

i assume it's only a matter of time till ppl start saying "the beatles would have been just fine without john lennon"

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:07 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There have been TV dramas framed around answering this question already.

The other three could've carried on as the Smiths with a different singer. Marr is the greater of the two. Would've been fine.

Morrissey’s most important contribution as an individual was his lyrics, not his voice. Together he and Marr were better than apart. Anything else is laughable revisionism.

Marr has worked with other singers/writers and the results are as good as the Smiths. I don't think that's true of Morrissey.

they would have fared perfectly fine in that mid-80s London guitar pop climate

not sure who we're talking about here (the primitives? the darling buds?) but you could argue that it was the success of the smiths in the first place that enabled those bands to sign to majors and enjoy a level of success

Also what does London have to do with it?

What's London but a secondhand emotion?

Marr has worked with other singers/writers and the results are as good as the Smiths. I don't think that's true of Morrissey.

― everything, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 08:09 (fifty-two minutes ago)

this is bullshit too imo. Moz's stuff with Vini Reilly on Viva Hate is as good as the Smiths

The other three could've carried on as the Smiths with a different singer. Marr is the greater of the two. Would've been fine.

Second sentence does not necessarily follow from the first.

X-Ray Spex lost their front-person and they got a new one and carried on. With a new name, obv. Doesn't mean Jak Airport was greater than Poly.

I don't think that's true of Morrissey.

A lot of Morrissey solo is patchy but Vauxhall & I is up there with my favourite Smiths stuff.

Perhaps David Quantick could have been the lead singer

John the Postman, surely.

https://img.discogs.com/ju7i1NrmtQ7XIwXj0EbFAPCQ7Vo=/fit-in/600x360/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/A-1274814-1468321622-2023.jpeg.jpg

Well, Marr made all the music and the 3 piece band could have made as good instrumentals for another singer but a lot of the Smiths fans (not all, of course) worshipped Moz and he was the star of the band (also the importance of his stage presence) so they definitely wouldn't have been as popular without him (not talking about his lyrical/melodic/structural input in the songwriting, as mentionned already).

Check out Bryan Ferry's "The Right Stuff"

There's an old bootleg live encore of Barbarism Begins at Home with Pete Burns, where M & PB give up (and I presume leave the stage) halfway through and the other three proceed to reveal themselves as a superior jazz funk band, which I guess they felt they couldn't do with Moz around. They could've been a great second division Factory band.

if Marr wanted to to do jackshit that anyone remembers after the Smiths besides Getting Away With It and whatever Modest Mouse minor hit he played on he sure has had the opportunities

Morrissey has a ton of iconic solo songs

i mean I'm all for reevaluating his career, the recent mark s post someone linked was great and thought provoking about how the press and audience willfully ignored his racism

but to compare their post Smiths careers is so silly

I am a huuuuuuge fan of Marr the session man, love his playing so much, but yeah, no way, Morrissey has a ton of iconic solo songs and Marr remained best at being one of the best support players (for The The, Electronic, Pet Shop Boys, Talking Heads, Bryan Ferry, you name it).

Morrissey's vocal melodies run all over Marr's songs in really strange and unique ways

Did someone post that "Sing the Fifth" video here? That was illuminating.

Electronic's first album is better than the sum total of Morrissey's solo career, don't @ me

sing the third! xp

ha, yeah, the third?

Sorry, bad punctuation, on phone.

I agree the first Electronic album is better than any Morrissey album, and you can make a case that is better than the sum total of his career, but given it's the product of Johnny Marr of The Smiths, the singer and guitarist from one of the few other British bands that really gave the Smiths a run for their money, and the Pet Shop Boys thrown in as guest ringers, it better be!

Electronic's first album is better than the sum total of Morrissey's solo career, don't @ me

― Neil S,

I don't disagree!

fuck me, I'd rate a Chas + Dave b-side kazoo version of Flight of the Valkries as better than the sum total of Morrissey's solo career + The Smiths!