Rolling 2004 Metal Thread

Hell Awaits is Slayer's answer to Melissa, by the way. I agree it's their creative high point, though not their most proficient moment.

The worst metal band I've ever heard, in any subgenre, is Wizard.

That's the spirit! Keep digging!

So all metal records must sound exactly the same? Okay, I get it now.

Sonically speaking, the two bands don't sound alike at all. Motley Crue were 'heavier' than they were later in their early days, but Slayer were a much more extreme group from the getgo, in that they were deathy-thrash in their early days, really gritty.

Song structure itself doesn't play into the differences between metal and pop since metal itself can be somewhat "poppy" in convention, but I wouldn't put Motley Crue and Slayer, given their body of work, in the same league whatsoever.

Note Slayer ditched the makeup and mascara after their first album and moved entirely away from that.

Of COURSE metal doesn't all sound the same. for fuck's sake, why do you think there are so many subgenres? Doom metal, goth metal, thrash metal, death metal, black metal, grindcore, progressive metal, industrial metal, power metal...and even then, there are subgenres of subgenres, like melodic death metal, industrialized thrash.

But I do not consider something like Living on a Prayer to be anything more than a pop song with loud guitars. Which does not necessarily make it metal.

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If you think Slayer and Poison sound anything alike, I'd get your ears examined. They might share some roots, but they both branched off in completely different directions.

All metal is a form of rock music, but not all rock music is metal, just like all pediatricians are doctors but not all doctors are pediatricians

Slayer wore spandex in their early days, wore mascara and makeup, played classic rock tunes live, and sounded a lot different earlier on.

And I would never argue that they weren't influenced by NWOBHM, because it was a huge influence.

To reclarify my post, I can't argue that many of these groups did not share some or many of the same influences (though the second-wave bands may have been more influenced by the first-wave groups rather than the first wave's influences, if you get my drift), but that that in themself doesn't make them the same entity.

but you weren't arguing that, so...ok :)

>>Just punch up http://www.amazon.com and see what Warrant's fan base thought of DOG EAT DOG in the "buyer's reviews"...that is possibly the best heavy-guitar melodic heavy metal album of its entire generation. close to amazing. seriously. It of course came out it the hellmouth of the explosion of 1992 grunge crap-deluge everywhere, and so got buried; the band's manager died, their headlining tour tanked and was canned halfway through, the band splintered/broke up for a year...etc. There's probably a great unreleased Jani Lane solo album between the various (later) Jabberwocky and Lane-solo stuff that CBS eventually decided not to put out (he initially retained a CBS deal after the band was dropped in the mass purge of nearly all major-label hair metal bands, most of whom obviously deserved to return to the hellhole they came from).

if you are a hard rock/metal fan but don't own those 3rd and 4th Warrant albums DOG EAT DOG and ULTRAPHOBIC, your entire collection should be confiscated and traded in for Hilary Duff DVD's yesterday. I say this as someone who heard and loved it all first-wave heavy metal from ground zero, Sabbath in 1970-71 until "heavy metal" turned to formula crap within about a decade. For Warrant to cut a substantial body of truly great or near-great melodic and heavy melodic-metal during the nadir of idiot clueless poser hair-metal and speedmetal bands, was a remarkable accomplishment. (In baseball, that'd be called the "ballpark factor").<<

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I'll admit I kind of jumped into this thread without really getting clearly where both sides were coming from.

The thing I said about chuck was not to imply that he didn't know anything about metal, but to imply that I did not know what he knew about metal.

Here's the thing with Slayer.

They ditched the makeup, mascara, and all that flash, but their music was also less weighty on the first album. It could be considered extreme for the timeframe, and had some dark edges to it, seeming to owe homages to Venom and the like, but it was pretty easy on the ears.

Hell Awaits, which came out not so long after, was a much darker, more extreme beast. It had some touches of what would later be death metal in it, and was much more sinister and dark. Reign in Blood was heavily hardcore influenced as well. They moved farther and farther away from the peers they're being compared with in this thread.

Nah, John, more like "I obviously know there's no objectively right answer to the 'what is heavy metal?' question, but for some reason I still manage to waste lots of time arguing that my own definition is the right one, probably because it's still somewhat fun to do so."

At the time, you better believe it was time for all-out war on posers, but in retrospect Dokken and Testament are a close call.

Anyway, Slipknot have taken over. Their shows are much more violent, anarchic fun than Nile or Iced Earth, believe that. Hating sort of makes you a fogey, and we all do so I guess we all are. Fine.

If I wanted to see a bunch of people jumping around in clown suits I'd go to Cirque de Soleil

so, uhm...WHO ELSE GOT THE NEW SUFFOCATION

Got a Marduk DVD today -- finally get to glimpse what the Pole police were so stuck up about.

Um, no. And Ian, you're way smarter than that. Don't buy into the "Slipknot sell too many records to mean it" bullshit.

>I've seen Nile live, and they slayed.

You're one of those guys who stands at the edge of the moshpit with his arms folded, scowling, aren't you? Go see Slipknot. They're one of the best live acts around. Nile suck live. I saw them a couple of years ago, and they were the worst band on the bill. (Their albums bore the crap out of me, too; that's probably got something to do with my opinion on the matter.)

I'm very bored with the new Suffocation. I'd rather listen to the new Death Angel. I'm all about the 80s retro-thrash lately...Death Angel, Exodus, Destruction...

The music is secondary, right?

Nile were amazing live, not to mention tight, when I saw them. I don't give two shits what the hell the knuckledragging Slipknot fans do in a moshpit.

If I were Slipknot, I'd be rushing to admit I was kidding the whole time, due to just how bad most of their shit is.

Ha, I usually stand in the back by the bar, and say stuff like "wow, look at all those goofy people in the mosh pit." unless opeth is playing, when it's more like, "ha, all those silly people up there in the mosh pot don't know what to do to music this slow and sad. how come clubs don't provide folding chairs at concerts like this?"

Me, too, except I'm saying "Wow, metal chicks are even hotter now than they were when I was in high school."

The Opeth show at Irving Plaza was great; all those dudes standing zombified, staring at Mike Akerfeldt's fingers the whole time.

They're from my hometown.

I agree. I never listen to "Seasons..." as much as I do Reign in Blood or South of Heaven.

Of course, my total lack of money and album purchasing has a lot to do with this. My to-buy list still has a bunch of early-2003 releases like Spawn Of Possession's Cabinet.

That being said, the new My Dying Bride sounds really good... They've really managed to pick up the steam again (so to speak), as I felt everything between Turn Loose The Swans and The Dreadful Hours was a bit pedestrian.

Re: Kataklysm (welcome to usenet!)
That band is a really sad chapter, to me. Their first couple of releases are really amazing, particularly Sorcery! I've still not heard any other bands approach that sound. Sadly Kataklysm seemed to get more and more streamlined for each release, and now they sound half an Afflicted-riff away from moving to Stockholm.

There's a leak of the new Darkthrone floating around -- a couple new twists, a more necro sound than Hate Them. Or you can wait six months for the official release, the poor bastards.

Just went to a Fantomas/Melt-Banana show and watching idiots try and mosh to the 5-15 seconds of appropriate stuff Fantomas played was fun. The songs would get all heavy, guys would start flailing around, then the band would start breaking down the riffs, getting all choppy and these guys would start getting confused trying to keep their flailing in step... and looking really goofy in the process. Finally, they'd just look mad when then band would inevitably go off on something completely different... that you can't punch people to.

But even though these guys could only mosh in 15 second intervals, some jerk still ripped my friend's jacket!

xpost - hi scott! and bye! i'm going home now!