Defend Phil Collins

anyone remember marcello's freejazz story?

I was too nice to the Postal Service though.

Ol' Dirty Bastard and lots of other rap and RnB stars to thread.

Also, Geir needs to be here.

Other than that, I still think his first three solo albums have gotten a bit too much criticism. Sure, they aren't quite in the league of Peter Gabriel's solo work (much less in the league of Genesis at their best), but there are lots of great tracks there too. From "But Seriously" onward it was downhill though, and "Dance Into The Light" is probably one of the worst albums ever.

Also, Phil Collins is a magnificent drummer. Maybe his best moment as a drummer is "Intruder" - the opening track on Peter Gabriel's third album.

'Mama''s quite a good song.

He was a big fan of The Action as a youth.

No, that's it. I've run out of good words to say for him.

I like "Against All Odds", no matter how schmaltzy it may be, although it may be because I had a thing for Rachel Ward when I was a teenager.

He is a decent actor, and probably one of the top hundred-thousand drummers in the world.

I think that the fact the song has actually spawned an urban legend speaks to how powerful it is....

Don't know much else about his music and frankly don't care.

Sure, he's a good drummer, but I recall hating him for his skin-work on the re-made version of Howard Jones' 'No One Is To Blame' - the original was far better.

He is indeed pretty funny in interviews. Very self-affacting. I think he'd be an OK guy to have a pint with. Although the conversation with Peter Gabriel would be far more interesting. Sting can blow himself. (sorry - did an interview with Sting recently and I'm struggling BADLY to finish the article)

http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/someair.htm

Fritz, I didn't know he was in a Bone Thugs video?? Which one??

Also, imagine the possibilities that appearance brings up in a game of "Six Degrees of Phil Collins"....it probably means you could connect say, Mase and Marianne Faithful in less than 4 degrees....like Bone Thugs worked with collins, they worked with Biggie on Notorious Thugs, Biggie worked with Mase, then Phil subbed for drums with Zeppelin at Live Aid (I think) and probably John Paul Jones did some arranging for Marianne I bet back in the mid-60s....(I'm not sure about all these facts, just speculating, but the possibilites like this are endless.)...

Isn't this what we praise Joy Division for?

This may not have been you, but I once head John say in an interview that Phil Collins had stolen the PiL drum sound! Apparently, after hearing the drum sound on 'Flowers' Collins requested the same engineer that PiL used and set up the drums exactly the same! Is this true? Was it you!

Yes, this is true, and it was me. John is correct but there is a bit more to it. I learnt how to get that "kind" of drum sound by watching Hugh Padgham record in the same Stone Room at the Townhouse. Hugh recorded Peter Gabriel's 3rd album and if you listen to a song called 'Intruder' you will hear what I'm talking about. When It came to doing the PiL album I used similar methods to achieve a similar sound. During the making of the 'Flowers of Romance' I bumped into Phil Collins in the corridor of the Townhouse, I had worked as an assistant on his first LP, and he was very inquisitive about how I was surviving working with the evil Johnny Rotten! I told him John was a top class geeza, and promised to introduce them if he was keen.

Later that day me and John went to the Townhouse canteen to eat boiled cabbage and mash, and in walked Phil so I introduced them. Much to all our surprise they got on like a house on fire! Anyway back to the drum story... Much later Phil was producing a Chris Bailey (of Earth Wind and Fire) album, and he wanted THAT drum sound, but Hugh was off working with the Police. Phil had by then heard snippets of the PiL album. So, the day we were in mastering the 'Flowers' single remix at the Townhouse cutting rooms next door, I got a call from Phil saying HELP! So I went in for an hour or so and dialed it up!

Pardon granted for: Squonk

There is lots of Phil Collins-associated music that I like, and lots that I loathe. I generally find him to be unbelievably smarmy, though, so it's hard to like even the good stuff.

(this, btw, would also fit into the ILE "funniest things said while having sex" thread)

"No really, Gail, he was there and John Martyn was on guitar, and he talked him into playing and John Stevens said halfway through one improv piece "Right you lot, Phil and I are gonna have a little chat on the drums now so the rest of you cunts can just shaddup, alright?"

"Yes, that sounds like good old John," sighed G. Four-second pause. "Dirty old man that he was..."

(according to G, every Brit improv legend is or was a "dirty old man" heheh).

Anyway, as a drummer the boy Collins dun good on the John Cale Island trilogy and also on Bob Fripp's Exposure. The latter, come to think of it, is not currently available on CD either except as an expensive and not recommended import.

Has no one noted what a brilliant 'video actor' Phil Collins is? Not every artist puts their *all* into their visual performance (nevermind exact proper lip-synching) as Phil Collins does. Like, in the video for 'Mama', he literally looks like he's going mad with rage, hatred and desire, and you really believe it, you can't take your eyes off him... It is hard to believe this is the same guy who's being all cheery and silly in some of his other videos. That's what I love about Phil Collins, he is so multifaceted, as well as multi-talented. I don't claim to love *all* his songs (some of them I downright can't stand) but I don't turn my nose up at him as a musical artist. It takes talent to write a good pop tune, and that Phil Collins has written so many well-loved hits is testament to his song-writing skill, on top of being a brilliant drummer, a very decent keyboardist, and emotive vocalist. Now that I think about it, Phil Collins was the first pop artist I ever got into as a teenager. Ah, memories! :)

Not sure what the radio format was where I heard "Invisible Touch" yesterday...FM dial, the kind of station that doesn't go earlier than the '80s, I think.

There has been that kind of thing before, as Dixieland trad Jazz was a fairly popular party music in the 50s and early 60s. In an interview I saw with bassist Steve Swallow he talked about playing with some early players who played with Bix etc doing some of these party’s in college.

Things definitely come back 50 years later that are clearly thought of as nostalgia or retro or whatever--thinking of that horrible Cherry Poppin' Daddies hit from the '90s. Not sure if something like "Invisible Touch" is heard or presented the same way. (Meaning, literally, I'm not sure.)

Which, if it isn't, contradicts my original post...this is just way too complicated.

Makes me think of when Lorde told Marc Maron how much she loved Phil Collins' music and he was incredulous.

What’s up with these covers with Phil looking older ? Am I listening to the original albums? E.g.

https://i.imgur.com/INUQNmv.png

― calstars, Monday, 23 January 2023 03:15 (one year ago) link

When they were reissued a coupla years back he reshot all the sleeves as he is now. It's literally an inexplicable move.

― his cartoon heart expands, then he relaxes by smoking crack (stevie)

Lol I was just listening to “take me home” (great song btw and awesome 909 beat) and was so confused looking at the album cover on spotify. I didn’t remember him looking so old in the 80’s, then looked at the other covers where he also looks old and got even more confused. Felt a “mandela effect” for a minute there.

Cool move tbh

That explains it. I remember seeing the cover of Hello I Must be Going! a while back, and it looked odd. But unless you inspect it closely it's not obvious it's a different photo. And why would you inspect the cover of Hello I Must be Going! closely in 2024? Also I remember seeing the cover of Face Value and having an urge to write I HATE BIG BROTHER in my diary. Which I did not do because I remember what happened to the bloke who lived in the apartment across the hallway.

I was ten years old in 1986 and I remember that "Land of Confusion" was cool! It still sounds huge. And I remember Phil Collins and Genesis being played in arcades and youth clubs etc. Paul Hardcastle's "19" was also cool. The thing is that kids have a notion of cool that isn't cool, because it's spontaneous and home-grown. It isn't the kind of grown-up, calculated cool whereby you're supposed to pretend to like Lo Borges harder than the next man.

Obviously his lyrics are hard to take seriously, and I'm not convinced that he had a coherent programme to solve global conflict or homelessness. I think the thing that killed Collins was his normal-ness, and the ubiquity. He seemed to want us to love him, which is quite common with actorly types. They crave approval. And I have the impression that in the UK we wanted our stars, at least in the 1980s, to be bigger than human, to be aloof, commanding, better than us somehow, whereas Collins came across as a normal man who wanted to be our friend, which is off-putting. That's just not British. Peter Gabriel on the other hand had more concrete concerns, and more importantly he mostly shut the fuck up and kept out of sight.

David Bowie really mastered that kind of thing, later in life. The careful balancing act between being a superhuman icon and one of the lads, even though he quite obviously wasn't one of the lads. I'm also tangentially reminded of this interview with Keith Allen from a while back, where almost literally everybody in the comments despises the man:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2024/apr/11/keith-allen-your-implication-is-my-lifes-a-failure-and-id-be-happier-had-i-lost-my-manhood

I'm not sure where Keith Allen came from there. Overall my impression is that Collins was no more naff than e.g. Howard Jones, it's just that he sold more records and was in our faces all the time, and that got annoying.

Incidentally, the pragmatic answer to the question of how I would defend Phil Collins is (a) I would move him into full cover (b) I would have a support screen him with a smoke grenade (c) crucially I would move a MEC trooper closer to the Thin Men in order to soak up incoming shots (d) and assuming he survived that turn I would pull him back and set up an ambush.

The Thin Men are lethal in a stand-up fight on Classic and Impossible difficulty, because they have a massive aim bonus. But they're prone to suicidal charges, so if you can pull back far enough you can overwatch them on their dash move.

Obviously these tips would only make sense if Phil Collins was one of the little soldiers in XCOM: Enemy Unknown. As a musician and human man they're less relevant, but you never know. They are true tips. True.

Ashley, in the "Don't Lose My Number" video alone, Phil acquits himself well in a wild west shootout and a Mad Max-style dystopia.

Moka, I hope you have seen this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhwjcg6TeO0

Thompson plays the kalimba intro with mallets before switching to drums. Exquisite.

See especially 4:13 onward, there's a recurring long fill that crosses the bar line and has this massive China crash. Plus: bonus Lee Sklar!

The only thing I have to add to this thread is “Land of Confusion” slaps

you're not just making promises you'll never keep

fuck, this album is the bald Thriller

― Barack 2 Chainz Obama (some dude), Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:33 PM (twelve years ago) bookmarkflaglink

YMP: Woah! I had never seen this and what a brilliant version it is.

"Ashley, in the "Don't Lose My Number" video alone, Phil acquits himself well in a wild west shootout and a Mad Max-style dystopia"

We don't really get a clear look at the tactical situation in "Number", but he seems to have the Lightning Hands perk, which is handy because he isn't in cover. And there is a certain amount of smoke. It's easy to overlook the use of smoke because it's a one-time item - until you get Tactical Rigging - but it's stupid to bring it back from the mission, and if that one time results in the death of your highest-ranking assault soldier you'll be in a word of hurt on an ironman run. Even so Collins took one heck of a risk.

Now, psi-Collins. That I can get behind. With psi-armour and a mindshield Phil Collins wouldn't need to defend himself. On the first time he'd mind control the rearmost alien, on the next turn he'd withdraw and panic the next alien, then mindspin, then withdraw. He'd be unstoppable as long as he didn't activate more than one pod. He would need a hard heart - the aliens will wreak havoc with any civilians present on the level - but Phil Collins has a hard heart. He's a hard man. A drummer. He has seen the end. No flesh will be spared.

There must be a list somewhere of 1980s music videos where the singer walks past a line of models in swimsuits. It would consist of "Don't Lose My Number", "Shake Your Rump", and literally everything by David Lee Roth. Seemingly half of the list would consist of variations where the joke is that the singer is a pudgy middle-aged man, the other hand would be just David Lee Roth flaunting his awesomeness. Now there's a man who did not age well. And yet I always had the impression that his party-hearty image was mostly for show, and that he was relatively smart and sensible. But then again he's almost seventy and he spent a lot of time in the sun, so who knows.

I often wonder how the models felt about it. Presumably it was a day getting paid to stand around while a middle-aged man slowly walked back and forth in front of them while trying to lip-sync to some music coming out of a boombox. While being ogled by the director and/or camera crew. But it was at the beach and they were getting paid, albeit not very much. But money is money.

Interesting. What is your take on the tactical soundness of the "We Can't Dance" infantry formation?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Genesis_WeCantDance_tour92.jpg

Phil seems to already have back problems there

just out of picture on the right: shady dude trying to sell him fake Alamo relics

It isn't the kind of grown-up, calculated cool whereby you're supposed to pretend to like Lo Borges harder than the next man.

lol poor Lô Borges catching strays in anglo taste analysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWhUukkGPFM

his drumming posture not ideal for the long-term. he's hunched over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0z84vv9uaw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5C7-RmSIvY

"Interesting. What is your take on the tactical soundness of the "We Can't Dance" infantry formation?"

I'll tell you what I see. I see the arrogance of Psi-Collins.

The justified arrogance. See, the XCOM games famously have an inverse difficulty curve. They start off nightmarishly hard and get easier as they go along. By the end they're a cakewalk. Which is enormously gratifying. After hours of suffering you finally get a chance to kick the media in the face and scream "I didn't like Sia anyway!" at the top of your voice. And no-one can cancel you! No-one can cancel you any more.

Because... I'm talking about XCOM. XCOM. When Julian and Nick Gollop designed the original game they thought that players would rush to defeat the aliens as quickly as possible, so they scaled the baddies accordingly - but there's nothing to stop a player stalling and building up their soldiers until they're godlike. The aliens cap out at a certain level but XCOM's troops just keep getting better, and that's a tradition that continues with the modern games.

As mentioned passim Collins and his bandmates in Genesis would probably be psionic soldiers, because music is a form of mind control. I can't think of any other way to explain the decision I have made in my life. I have made some terrible decisions, sometimes irrational decisions, and yet here I am, because the music protects me. It takes me on the scenic route. From the moment music entered my life I have allowed it to take me on the scenic route. I own a motorcycle and I can't remember why. I will get there, I know it.

By 1991 Collins, Rutherford, and Banks had mastered soulfire. They had mastered solace. They had mastered null lance, mind control, soul steal, schism, fuse. At that point in their careers they didn't have to take cover. Psi-Genesis versus a standard enemy pod would have been a slaughter. Which might explain why they split up. Where could they go?

There comes a point when you're just delaying Earth's salvation for your own amusement, as in Watchmen. Every time you go off on a mission there are people dying in the background. I have the impression Collins et al were aware of that, so they rushed Cydonia and ended the game. Now they are playing second wave, or they're going for the achievements. Such as an all-mech squad, or an all-female squad, or fifty shootdowns. Whatever.

That's my take on Phil Collins, and when I say Phil Collins I mean XCOM, but also Phil Collins. He has found peace.

Phil Collins was 34 when Don't Lose My Number came out btw

People who should not lose a number:

1. Nikki

2. Billy

People who probably wish they had a different one:

1. Jenny

* Rikki, dammit

That Brand X stuff rips so hard

"What’s up with these covers with Phil looking older ? Am I listening to the original albums?" I oppose this kind of revisionism but on the other hand I dont care

SAme thing with THE THE Mind Bomb etc!

every time that live video of "take me home" gets posted i have to watch it. incredible stuff. does anyone know if that live version or something similar to it was ever released?

ha i see that it has! https://www.discogs.com/release/13145381-Phil-Collins-Serious-HitsLive

Mention of "Take Me Home" makes me think of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoooMQZdGW0

ah shit that's great