Erykah Badu: C /D, S&D

pt 1 speaks to me in a personal way, pt 2 doesn't. simple as that

dont get everyone riding so hard for amerykah pt 1 over pt 2 -- i mean i do to the degree that its a DIFFICULT RECORD (zzz) but yeesh

― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:12 PM (3 hours ago)

get ouuuuta here with this faux-naive bs, you're better than this - it's not "difficult" it just "has songs"

pt 2 doesn't have 'songs' now? that's as bs as suggesting pt 1 is the 'difficult' record

Pt. 1 is the white record, Pt. 2 is the black one.

i'm white btw

Pt. 1 is the white record, Pt. 2 is the black one.

― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:02 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

LOL

Pt. 1 is the white record, Pt. 2 is the black one.

― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:02 PM Suggest Ban Permalink
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i realize you state this at least partly in jest, but you have no idea how fucking enraged this statement makes me.

almost just said "fuck you" and left it at that tbh

thought he was talking about Beatles v Metallica tbh

It wasn't even "partly in jest" -- it's totally in jest.

'white' & 'black' are totally the wrong words to describe the differences between the two records but there are totally ideological differences in preferring one over the other imo ... the 1st one is the public enemy record, the 2nd one is the sade record

One is the "Spike Lee" album, the other is the "Bill Cosby" album

pretty sure most everyone itt loves both pe and sade

pretty sure most people not 100% behind this record were into her previous 'sade' moments too

also pretty sure most people itt who are not 100% into this record are like... 85% into this record

65%-75% with reservations

I'm definitely more into this record after having just endured a wobbly tenor sing "Master Blaster" at the karaoke event next door.

pretty sure most everyone itt loves both pe and sade

― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:23 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and most like both records. i think there are difft value systems at work in preferring one over the other

sure. but why is one inherently more valid than the other?

theyre not. id say that one is a lil more critic friendly, tho

which matters why?

bcuz it impacts how ppl talk about the relative values they bring to bear on each record & it helps to interrogate not just what ppl think but why they think that way

i completely disagree that any preference between these two particular albums is "ideological" - i know where deej is coming from w/r/t the value systems at play, but there are plenty of other reasons to prefer one over the other.

i think they complement each other just about perfectly, as they're meant to.

i completely disagree that any preference between these two particular albums is "ideological" - i know where deej is coming from w/r/t the value systems at play, but there are plenty of other reasons to prefer one over the other.

nah i mean basically all judgments are results of value systems. or are your tastes entirely random? might explain some things

nah i mean basically all judgments are results of value systems

only if you apply the same value systems to all judgments you make. it doesn't follow that preferring the "political"/experimental side of the new amerykah albums over the "personal"/familiar one that you necessarily privilege political and experimental art over personal and familiar art, because those things aren't ever good or bad in themselves, they're just neutral descriptions.

only if you apply the same value systems to all judgments you make.

theres no way out of this dude

lex otm

it doesn't follow that preferring the "political"/experimental side of the new amerykah albums over the "personal"/familiar one that you necessarily privilege political and experimental art over personal and familiar art, because those things aren't ever good or bad in themselves, they're just neutral descriptions.

obv this is true tho -- that doesnt mean that the recognition that these are in fact value systems interacting shouldn't be a part of the discussion

deej, are your reactions to art always consistent? cause if so that makes you quite unique among human beings.

how on earth is that what im talking about

i dont even understand what the question means -- my 'reactions' to 'art' 'consistent'? they are consistently mine certainly, & the values we bring to bear are our own only -- im just talking about the act of openly acknowledging those values

only if you apply the same value systems to all judgments you make.

theres no way out of this dude

― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:04 PM Suggest Ban Permalink
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????

i would say a better example of a preference based on "ideology" would be someone who doesn't particular rate or pay attention to any badu album except pt1 - someone who wasn't interested in her until she made a political record, say, and who's disappointed that pt2 isn't as ~experimental~ or whatever. which i don't think anyone here is.

of course there are different value systems at play, but there is very little, if any, music within pt. 1's system that i prefer to it, whereas there is a fair amount within pt. 2's system that i do prefer. that doesn't mean i inherently prefer one value system to the other, even if i think this whole line of argument is more or less bunk.

you cant help but apply your own values to every critical argument you make. how do you apply someone elses?

of course there are different value systems at play, but there is very little, if any, music within pt. 1's system that i prefer to it, whereas there is a fair amount within pt. 2's system that i do prefer. that doesn't mean i inherently prefer one value system to the other, even if i think this whole line of argument is more or less bunk.

― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:12 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

youre not understanding 'value system' -- thats the broad biases/opinions/values/morals that the critic brings to bear; the piece of art has no 'value system' of its own, just what we bring to it

you cant help but apply your own values to every critical argument you make. how do you apply someone elses?

― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:12 PM Suggest Ban Permalink
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whoever said anything about that?

"only if you apply the same value systems to all judgments you make."

from a critics perspective what values are their other than your own

you can hold different (and inconsistent) values yourself, which is what i assume lex meant by that

not if yr trying to make a convincing argument; if u hold two opposing ideas that in order to convince anyone u have to come up with an explanation for why one system works in one situation and another doesnt

especially in a case like this, when the two value systems aren't even opposed to each other or mutually exclusive

your assuming im making some argument im not if there as a 'situation like this'

i never claimed there was something wrong with liking pt. 1 yeesh

apparently you will only be happy if i admit i always prefer political/difficult music to that which does not fit those descriptions but it might ~blow your mind~ to find out i prefer nina sky to rage against the machine or hell, even al green to sly stone

all i said is that i think its worthwhile for discussion to observe the kinds of critical biases that work to elevate part 1 at the expense of part 2, its not at all about questioning the lex's RIGHT AND TRUE reasons for preferring pt 1 that evade typical ITS AN AGGRESSIVE DIFFICULT POLITICAL RECORD media hype but to observe why critics tend to line up IN GENERAL & IN LARGER NUMBERS on one side rather than the other. i could prefer pt 1 (i dont) & still make this argument

defensive posters are defensive

apparently you will only be happy if i admit i always prefer political/difficult music to that which does not fit those descriptions but it might ~blow your mind~ to find out i prefer nina sky to rage against the machine or hell, even al green to sly stone

― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:23 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you're reading so much shit into what im saying that im not actually saying

defensive posters are defensive

― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:24 PM Suggest Ban Permalink
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good god, deej

dude -- u seriously think im telling you that i think you always prefer 'political / difficult music'?? reread this thread & tell me where i accused you of anything

all i said is that i think its worthwhile for discussion to observe the kinds of critical biases that work to elevate part 1 at the expense of part 2, its not at all about questioning the lex's RIGHT AND TRUE reasons for preferring pt 1 that evade typical ITS AN AGGRESSIVE DIFFICULT POLITICAL RECORD media hype but to observe why critics tend to line up IN GENERAL & IN LARGER NUMBERS on one side rather than the other. i could prefer pt 1 (i dont) & still make this argument

maybe if you want to have that argument in general, this thread isn't the best place for it? it's a worthwhile topic but i don't think it's going to get anywhere here.