Rolling R&B Thread 2010

no sure how well it will perform commercially though. i could imagine 'alone' doing okay on the radio but after that i'm struggling besides what's already out

my forever favorite songz song is "i need a girl" cuz i think it sounds like something from 'confessions'

― J0rdan S., Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:33 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

never understand when you say this -- what song on Confessions even has that kind of vibe or production?

what resonates about trey to me more than his album is the general sound of his stuff -- some stuff like "say ahh" & "lol :-)" & " i need a girl" are outliers, but the smooth, soft, almost trance-y tone of the synths on tons of his songs stand out for me -- how understated the drums are always too, either always sort of rippling or just offering an understated thump -- it makes his albums distinctly modern sounding but also sort of classy -- i can see why he would be the male r&b star of choice for older heads -- sometimes the songz lag as songs but there's a great flow & feel to this album that isn't broken up really by it being 'sectioned' or by the singles (or possible singles)

the guitar in "i need a girl" reminds me of the guitar on "confessions pt 2"

I don't think songz really plays to his strengths on this album, "doorbell" is definitely the best track, the 'Pleasure' section is the strongest to me because it sounds like Ready/anticipation, I feel like he's going for a kind of classicism with some of the production that doesn't suit him, so it comes off as really boring.(see: "yo side of the bed" off of ready

yeah see i think his interaction with that classicism is exactly what's not boring about it all (and i str8-up came round to loving 'yo side of the bed' btw - lolz at the video). how he is on the pleasure section is perhaps a very particular lloydian frame he could corner the market in but i wouldn't go so far as to call it a strength, just a less busy avenue he's fine in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eJ39ZIJcNM

the guitar in "i need a girl" reminds me of the guitar on "confessions pt 2"

― J0rdan S., Wednesday, September 15, 2010 4:12 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i guess...that seems an abstract association, though. if it was gonna fit on any Usher album it'd be 8701.

lol xp

trey sounds really infantile to me; most of his songs have a nursery rhyme feel

i really can't imagine wanting to listen to a trey songz album, even if i like a few of his songs

i dont hear anything 'nursery rhyme' about it but i totally get where jordan & rtc are coming from -- this guy just executes different types sorta generically. i think maybe thats why i prefer the float-y lloyd-y songs the most, his whispy-ness sorta fits in w/ that better?? whereas otherwise, including the stuff where hes being omg wacky, it never feels like his own identity is tied to the wackiness, that it was kinda a business decision & hes going thru the motions performing dry versions of 'wacky'

nah i don't agree w/ the business decision view at all - trey wants to be popular, adapts to the times & is happy to perform. it's fair to say he might be a dull fellow that sometimes puts himself a little at odds with his vocal gymnastics but anything more than that is too strong imo.

i feel like singling out the 'pleasure'/floaty thing is kind of a backhanded evaluation as well - isn't it only just a particular quality of voice (rather than what the singer's doing with it, or how it works in terms of the singer's persona or whatever) that compliments these aesthetic radox wonderlands ppl wanna curate. like drake all suddenly elevated to being a permissable r&b artist on the basis of him not having enough character to perturb 'shut it down'.

'doorbell' is especially nice because songz finds a space to vamp just the way he does throughout the rest of the album, ie the sections of the album aren't nearly as defined as you guys seem to make out. like i know i lauded the "bedroom is my colosseum" line earlier but the fun of it is "... ring the bell i'll let you in" right after - an enormous colosseum with a regular door and dinky musical doorbell is kinda pretty much the very essence of the ymts experience.

i think maybe thats why i prefer the float-y lloyd-y songs the most, his whispy-ness sorta fits in w/ that better

i agree with this 'can't be friends', 'red lipstick', 'doorbell', 'unfortunate' and 'already taken' are the songs i'm really feeling on this. honestly i don't understand some of the criticisms of this guy, 'infantile' huh? what songs are we talking about here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHj85oyYpfI

i mean it's to the tune of frere jacques fr crissakes

that is:
a) a brilliant song
b) doesn't sound anything like what i consider to be mmts' core "sound"

i like trey! lotsa barely rhymed nonsense song stuff with see-saw blips and nah-nah-nah-nah-nah pacing and high speed falsetto. Maybe playground rhymes is more appropriate than nursery rhymes but his stuff does NOT sound like grown man r&b to me.

"your body's a problem/they call me the problem solver" sounds like the kind of thing a virgin would say

I think the latest Future of R&B (vol. 36) makes a strong case for Trey Songz. It's an unusually off volume, heavy on weepy, serious songs, but Trey's contributions are so brisk and light on their toes. They're really refreshing. I don't seek out his albums, but his singles usually brighten up the radio.

kind of swagging the fuck out to this joint right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiVdXHiFuoA

fuck c.b tho

damn that is really nice

New Jazmine Sullivan. Not amazing but the production is excellent IMO. Love the strings in particular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeHMy3KiIfg&feature=player_embedded

despite its lame AC-ness i kind of dig "lay you down"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/arts/music/04griffey.html?adxnnl=1&src=un&feedurl=http://json8.nytimes.com/pages/arts/music/index.jsonp&adxnnlx=1286211355-gBWWWJLbL900JGiM+LVFrA

early 80s r'n'b acts Shalamar and Lakeside's Solar label prez Dick Griffey just died

Solar - Search and Destroy

you made that sound like shalamar and lakeside all died in a fiery plane crash and i was like o_O

i'm legitimately excited about the drake r&b mixtape

^

http://i.imgur.com/6tzGJ.gif

lol i thought you were otm-ing me until the gif loaded

lol nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOUNe5aiBpQ

so this is the same kinda cheerfully diffident yet strangely overproduced thing as the first single... idgi tbh but i'm very mildly interested i guess

in fact i think the only reason i am interested is cos that's twice now where (afaik) she's just said "yeah this is my single" and we've all had to chew on it rather than immediately get given something else when we shrug. if ur not beyonce it doesn't really feel like it happens like that any more u know?

looking forward to this - "breaking point" is a classic to me

Has anyone talked about Fantasia new album at length here. I was listening to it last night and I think it is a great balance between today's r&b/pop sounds and her voice. I was worried that it would just sound too cut and paste but it does sound organic (couldn't think of another word).

oh i'd meant to give that a close listen

i love the fantasia album, LOVE

So this is interesting re the fragmentation of audiences: "I Invented Sex" is the first r&b #1 since 1992 not to place in the top 40 of the pop charts. Three more songs this year have done the same. I suspect downloading has a lot to do with this: with white crossover audiences being more likely to download legally (or at all?) than black r&b fans, driving music mostly consumed by black audiences down the charts. (Ironically, one of the r&b chart-toppers suffering from this disjunct is Robin Thicke.)

^^really interesting theory. do you think it can be extrapolated to...pop generally? w/r/t the sounds that black pop artists are jumping on in order to maintain commercial success? also, is the whole "white audiences are more likely to d/l legally" simply socio-economics or are there other factors?

in other news i've got around to the mmts album and can't get enough of the last third or so of it, from "red lipstick" on, just gorgeous layered lushness. the backing vox on "doorbell"!!

i'd noticed that trend, and one of my poll thread ideas that i hadn't finished doing all the legwork for yet was recent R&B #1's with low Hot 100 peaks. i think it happens for different reasons -- sometimes it's a slow jam by a non-superstar like Melanie Fiona that just doesn't cross over to pop radio, sometimes it's someone like Trey or Usher who has a bunch of hits out at the same time on R&B radio, but pop radio just sticks with "Say Aah" or "OMG" etc.

here's a pretty crazy statistic: 6 of the 9 R&B chart-toppers in 2009 were top 10 pop hits; zero of the 8 R&B chart-toppers so far in 2010 have been top 10 pop hits.

I wonder if this crazy statistic some dude mentioned was with pre-Thriller early 80s r&b. People like to talk about the r&b ghetto that 80s r&b was in due to the disco backlash when apparently white US audiences were decrying any black artist singing a song with a beat and a bass guitar. Their may have been hits on the r&b charts but did not make a dent at all on the pop charts. It makes me wonder if the ghettoization of r&b is happening again.

I know that people will say that we have Beyonce, Rihanna, Ne-Yo, Trey Songz (to an extent), Usher and a few others, but it seems like their isn't a big foundation to support minor r&b stars like in the 90s. It's either go pop or die in the r&b ghetto. I know this has been the attitude of lates in a lot of blogs covering popular r&b who rather talk about chart statistics of an artists rather than the actual quality of the song. And if a song by a minor r&b star is received well they will say it won't go pop (meaning white people won't like it) so what is the point liking the song.

On the other hand, I don't think r&b fans can give a shit about a song crossing over but with pop and dance elements being more prevalent in r&b artists songs I wonder if they will implicitly think "it must go pop or die" when they hear a new song. Excuse me for rambling but this has been on my mind ever since the 2008 or so.

Another thought is if popular r&b shifts back to a more traditional sound (or at least retro 90s style), will the pop audience grab on to it or will they seek more pop/dance voraciously? Would this cause the Beyonces and Rihannas to be more pop (which is already starting to show with Rihanna)?

I think you're exaggerating wrt the "R&B ghetto" - artists like Monica, Fantasia, even somebody like Kem (who I point to as exemplary as this disconnect between R&B audience and the mainstream, since his album debuted at #2 behind Eminem with no major pop single/the support of Urban AC) have all managed to do very respectable numbers without any pop support whatsoever. Even someone like Keyshia Cole, who's only had 1 real crossover hit ("Let It Go"), manages to go platinum every time.I think the "R&B ghetto" is a better place to be than the "rap ghetto", comparatively, if you're not a crossover rap star you aren't selling shit at all (if you're lucky enough to even get a release date)

and yeah, I've noticed this trend for a while now and I actually am glad about it, because it kind of lets r&b artists make R&B without having to make concessions to pop radio. Monica's comeback is one of the year's biggest stories IMO and lays a really solid blueprint for others to follow.

Wait wow that Keyshia Cole song "Let it Go" was a crossover hit!!! I guess I need to start looking at Billboard charts more. I wasn't trying to exaggerate on the "r&b ghetto" concept. It's just something I've noticed when reading about r&b. Their seems to be so much emphasis on crossing over that I sometimes get confused.

In addition, I also noticed a mini trend of making r&b without concessions to pop radio with songs such as Amerie's "Why R U", Monica's "Everything to Me", and a few of Usher's r&b ballads in his latest album. Also, Mary J. Blige said she was going back to hear first two albums early sounds. But I honestly didn't know how well received this trend is going to be received.

And who the hell is Kem???

In addition, I also noticed a mini trend of making r&b without concessions to pop radio with songs such as Amerie's "Why R U", Monica's "Everything to Me", and a few of Usher's r&b ballads in his latest album. Also, Mary J. Blige said she was going back to hear first two albums early sounds. But I honestly didn't know how well received this trend is going to be received.

yeah definitely, also Jazmine Sullivan's two singles and Miguel's "All I Want Is" - all very 90s

And who the hell is Kem???

some guy who makes "grown folks" R&B. I don't listen to him at all but he has a very solid fanbase

Now that I googled him, I remember seeing him on The Mo'nique Show two days ago. His music is pretty bland if I can remember, but it is perfect for the demographic for her show. "Grown Folks" r&b is so perplexing to me. Is it hard to be sonically interesting while still being "grown?"

I think the problem is they're trying too hard to sound "grown & tasteful" and it just translates as boring. Grown folks r&b can be great when done well - Anita Baker, Phylis Hyman, Sade, Maxwell, Luther, etc. all work in a "grown & sexy" aesthetic i'd say.

I sometimes forget those people you mentioned are "grown and tasteful" because I don't think they are/were daunted with catering to that particular audience. They did what they wanted to do. The latest crop of "grown folk" r&b are very self conscious and it shows in their work. Their also is a economic class stigma attached to it as well.

go pop or die

Great album title.