Rolling R&B Thread 2010

nah i don't agree w/ the business decision view at all - trey wants to be popular, adapts to the times & is happy to perform. it's fair to say he might be a dull fellow that sometimes puts himself a little at odds with his vocal gymnastics but anything more than that is too strong imo.

i feel like singling out the 'pleasure'/floaty thing is kind of a backhanded evaluation as well - isn't it only just a particular quality of voice (rather than what the singer's doing with it, or how it works in terms of the singer's persona or whatever) that compliments these aesthetic radox wonderlands ppl wanna curate. like drake all suddenly elevated to being a permissable r&b artist on the basis of him not having enough character to perturb 'shut it down'.

'doorbell' is especially nice because songz finds a space to vamp just the way he does throughout the rest of the album, ie the sections of the album aren't nearly as defined as you guys seem to make out. like i know i lauded the "bedroom is my colosseum" line earlier but the fun of it is "... ring the bell i'll let you in" right after - an enormous colosseum with a regular door and dinky musical doorbell is kinda pretty much the very essence of the ymts experience.

i think maybe thats why i prefer the float-y lloyd-y songs the most, his whispy-ness sorta fits in w/ that better

i agree with this 'can't be friends', 'red lipstick', 'doorbell', 'unfortunate' and 'already taken' are the songs i'm really feeling on this. honestly i don't understand some of the criticisms of this guy, 'infantile' huh? what songs are we talking about here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHj85oyYpfI

i mean it's to the tune of frere jacques fr crissakes

that is:
a) a brilliant song
b) doesn't sound anything like what i consider to be mmts' core "sound"

i like trey! lotsa barely rhymed nonsense song stuff with see-saw blips and nah-nah-nah-nah-nah pacing and high speed falsetto. Maybe playground rhymes is more appropriate than nursery rhymes but his stuff does NOT sound like grown man r&b to me.

"your body's a problem/they call me the problem solver" sounds like the kind of thing a virgin would say

I think the latest Future of R&B (vol. 36) makes a strong case for Trey Songz. It's an unusually off volume, heavy on weepy, serious songs, but Trey's contributions are so brisk and light on their toes. They're really refreshing. I don't seek out his albums, but his singles usually brighten up the radio.

kind of swagging the fuck out to this joint right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiVdXHiFuoA

fuck c.b tho

damn that is really nice

New Jazmine Sullivan. Not amazing but the production is excellent IMO. Love the strings in particular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeHMy3KiIfg&feature=player_embedded

despite its lame AC-ness i kind of dig "lay you down"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/arts/music/04griffey.html?adxnnl=1&src=un&feedurl=http://json8.nytimes.com/pages/arts/music/index.jsonp&adxnnlx=1286211355-gBWWWJLbL900JGiM+LVFrA

early 80s r'n'b acts Shalamar and Lakeside's Solar label prez Dick Griffey just died

Solar - Search and Destroy

you made that sound like shalamar and lakeside all died in a fiery plane crash and i was like o_O

i'm legitimately excited about the drake r&b mixtape

^

http://i.imgur.com/6tzGJ.gif

lol i thought you were otm-ing me until the gif loaded

lol nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOUNe5aiBpQ

so this is the same kinda cheerfully diffident yet strangely overproduced thing as the first single... idgi tbh but i'm very mildly interested i guess

in fact i think the only reason i am interested is cos that's twice now where (afaik) she's just said "yeah this is my single" and we've all had to chew on it rather than immediately get given something else when we shrug. if ur not beyonce it doesn't really feel like it happens like that any more u know?

looking forward to this - "breaking point" is a classic to me

Has anyone talked about Fantasia new album at length here. I was listening to it last night and I think it is a great balance between today's r&b/pop sounds and her voice. I was worried that it would just sound too cut and paste but it does sound organic (couldn't think of another word).

oh i'd meant to give that a close listen

i love the fantasia album, LOVE

So this is interesting re the fragmentation of audiences: "I Invented Sex" is the first r&b #1 since 1992 not to place in the top 40 of the pop charts. Three more songs this year have done the same. I suspect downloading has a lot to do with this: with white crossover audiences being more likely to download legally (or at all?) than black r&b fans, driving music mostly consumed by black audiences down the charts. (Ironically, one of the r&b chart-toppers suffering from this disjunct is Robin Thicke.)

^^really interesting theory. do you think it can be extrapolated to...pop generally? w/r/t the sounds that black pop artists are jumping on in order to maintain commercial success? also, is the whole "white audiences are more likely to d/l legally" simply socio-economics or are there other factors?

in other news i've got around to the mmts album and can't get enough of the last third or so of it, from "red lipstick" on, just gorgeous layered lushness. the backing vox on "doorbell"!!

i'd noticed that trend, and one of my poll thread ideas that i hadn't finished doing all the legwork for yet was recent R&B #1's with low Hot 100 peaks. i think it happens for different reasons -- sometimes it's a slow jam by a non-superstar like Melanie Fiona that just doesn't cross over to pop radio, sometimes it's someone like Trey or Usher who has a bunch of hits out at the same time on R&B radio, but pop radio just sticks with "Say Aah" or "OMG" etc.

here's a pretty crazy statistic: 6 of the 9 R&B chart-toppers in 2009 were top 10 pop hits; zero of the 8 R&B chart-toppers so far in 2010 have been top 10 pop hits.

I wonder if this crazy statistic some dude mentioned was with pre-Thriller early 80s r&b. People like to talk about the r&b ghetto that 80s r&b was in due to the disco backlash when apparently white US audiences were decrying any black artist singing a song with a beat and a bass guitar. Their may have been hits on the r&b charts but did not make a dent at all on the pop charts. It makes me wonder if the ghettoization of r&b is happening again.

I know that people will say that we have Beyonce, Rihanna, Ne-Yo, Trey Songz (to an extent), Usher and a few others, but it seems like their isn't a big foundation to support minor r&b stars like in the 90s. It's either go pop or die in the r&b ghetto. I know this has been the attitude of lates in a lot of blogs covering popular r&b who rather talk about chart statistics of an artists rather than the actual quality of the song. And if a song by a minor r&b star is received well they will say it won't go pop (meaning white people won't like it) so what is the point liking the song.

On the other hand, I don't think r&b fans can give a shit about a song crossing over but with pop and dance elements being more prevalent in r&b artists songs I wonder if they will implicitly think "it must go pop or die" when they hear a new song. Excuse me for rambling but this has been on my mind ever since the 2008 or so.

Another thought is if popular r&b shifts back to a more traditional sound (or at least retro 90s style), will the pop audience grab on to it or will they seek more pop/dance voraciously? Would this cause the Beyonces and Rihannas to be more pop (which is already starting to show with Rihanna)?

I think you're exaggerating wrt the "R&B ghetto" - artists like Monica, Fantasia, even somebody like Kem (who I point to as exemplary as this disconnect between R&B audience and the mainstream, since his album debuted at #2 behind Eminem with no major pop single/the support of Urban AC) have all managed to do very respectable numbers without any pop support whatsoever. Even someone like Keyshia Cole, who's only had 1 real crossover hit ("Let It Go"), manages to go platinum every time.I think the "R&B ghetto" is a better place to be than the "rap ghetto", comparatively, if you're not a crossover rap star you aren't selling shit at all (if you're lucky enough to even get a release date)

and yeah, I've noticed this trend for a while now and I actually am glad about it, because it kind of lets r&b artists make R&B without having to make concessions to pop radio. Monica's comeback is one of the year's biggest stories IMO and lays a really solid blueprint for others to follow.

Wait wow that Keyshia Cole song "Let it Go" was a crossover hit!!! I guess I need to start looking at Billboard charts more. I wasn't trying to exaggerate on the "r&b ghetto" concept. It's just something I've noticed when reading about r&b. Their seems to be so much emphasis on crossing over that I sometimes get confused.

In addition, I also noticed a mini trend of making r&b without concessions to pop radio with songs such as Amerie's "Why R U", Monica's "Everything to Me", and a few of Usher's r&b ballads in his latest album. Also, Mary J. Blige said she was going back to hear first two albums early sounds. But I honestly didn't know how well received this trend is going to be received.

And who the hell is Kem???

In addition, I also noticed a mini trend of making r&b without concessions to pop radio with songs such as Amerie's "Why R U", Monica's "Everything to Me", and a few of Usher's r&b ballads in his latest album. Also, Mary J. Blige said she was going back to hear first two albums early sounds. But I honestly didn't know how well received this trend is going to be received.

yeah definitely, also Jazmine Sullivan's two singles and Miguel's "All I Want Is" - all very 90s

And who the hell is Kem???

some guy who makes "grown folks" R&B. I don't listen to him at all but he has a very solid fanbase

Now that I googled him, I remember seeing him on The Mo'nique Show two days ago. His music is pretty bland if I can remember, but it is perfect for the demographic for her show. "Grown Folks" r&b is so perplexing to me. Is it hard to be sonically interesting while still being "grown?"

I think the problem is they're trying too hard to sound "grown & tasteful" and it just translates as boring. Grown folks r&b can be great when done well - Anita Baker, Phylis Hyman, Sade, Maxwell, Luther, etc. all work in a "grown & sexy" aesthetic i'd say.

I sometimes forget those people you mentioned are "grown and tasteful" because I don't think they are/were daunted with catering to that particular audience. They did what they wanted to do. The latest crop of "grown folk" r&b are very self conscious and it shows in their work. Their also is a economic class stigma attached to it as well.

go pop or die

Great album title.

dudez I made a mix of some of my fave r&b from 2010 so far... excuse all of the mistakes, I have no idea how to actually "mix" lol this is like my first time trying:

http://soundcloud.com/uploaderrr/dj-name-2010-r-b-mix

01. Ciara - I Run It
02. Omarion - Wet
03. Monica - Here I Am
04. The-Dream - Make Up Bag
05. RichGirl - Swagger Right
06. Ginuwine & James Fauntleroy - Disappeared
07. Shanell & Nicki Minaj - Cupid's Got A Gun
08. Trey Songz - Red Lipstick
09. Fletcher - Boom Cak
10. R. Kelly - Tongues
11. Range - Ghetto Dance
12. Teairra Mari & Mavado - Coinz
13. Lloyd - Let's Get It In
14. Miguel - All I Want Is You
15. Jazmine Sullivan - Holding U Down (Goin' In Circles)
16. Janelle Monae - Tightrope
17. Cee-Lo - You Don't Shock Me Anymore
18. K. Michelle - Can't Do This
19. John Brown - Sex On My Money
20. Aloe Blacc - I Need A Dollar

awesome

cool!

can't argue

i love the fantasia album, LOVE

Really really love the heightened showboating on this album. But then I am corn-bred fuxxx when it comes to Fantasia's voice.

I thought the album was kind of restrained for Fantasia honestly but yeah it is a great album! Not sure if i'd put it over her second one tho

What about "I'm Here"?

Really looking forward to hearing your mix by the way.

yeah she does kind of go overboard on that song lol (as is to be expected given the fact that it's from a broadway musical), but otherwise on songs like "Bittersweet, "Even Angels," "Falling In Love Tonight" she kinds of tones all of the hollering down. The live performances i've seen of "Bitter Sweet" and "I'm Doin Me" are a lot more showboaty than the recorded versions. I really MUST see her live I bet she puts on the greatest show

and thanks, don't hold the terrible "mixing" against me lol

yeah the fantasia album is pretty great, never got into her first two that much (hearing her trying to be sexy was...ugh)

great stuff brainwasher

out of stuff i hadn't heard, the ginuwine was really dope & that aloe blacc song is kinda O_O good

re: fantasia - yeah, to an extent she tones down the vocal showboating somewhat, but there's still this awesome generosity in the way she draws out certain words and just lets these melodies on melodies roll out luxuriously. "falling in love tonight" is a great example of this - you can imagine how in most hands it might be a somewhat bog-standard song, but fantasia draws you into it totally.

the piano line on "even angels" is sooo "wuthering heights"!

I know that people will say that we have Beyonce, Rihanna, Ne-Yo, Trey Songz (to an extent), Usher and a few others, but it seems like their isn't a big foundation to support minor r&b stars like in the 90s. It's either go pop or die in the r&b ghetto. I know this has been the attitude of lates in a lot of blogs covering popular r&b who rather talk about chart statistics of an artists rather than the actual quality of the song. And if a song by a minor r&b star is received well they will say it won't go pop (meaning white people won't like it) so what is the point liking the song.

i agree with all of this...i don't know, this weird separation between "r&b" and "pop", this is surely a recent development, right? or was it just coming of age in the turn-of-the-century sweet spot that makes me assume they shouldn't be that distinct? i'm not really talking about grown-and-sexy r&b or post-neo-soul - music for adults has always done its thing with less critical attention than music for the kidz; ciara's current situation exemplifies it for me, where she's visibly caught between being a pop star and an r&b star.

I think you're exaggerating wrt the "R&B ghetto" - artists like Monica, Fantasia, even somebody like Kem (who I point to as exemplary as this disconnect between R&B audience and the mainstream, since his album debuted at #2 behind Eminem with no major pop single/the support of Urban AC) have all managed to do very respectable numbers without any pop support whatsoever

maybe it's a big ghetto but it's a ghetto nonetheless - how much critical attention have monica and fantasia received? unless you're actually checking for them i'm guessing it's perfectly possible to be unaware they even have material out. from a uk perspective it's even worse of course - it took me SIX MONTHS to track down jazmine sullivan's UK PR, and when i did, he outlined the UK promo campaign as follows:

We’ll be releasing her album alongside the US on the 29th November, though just letting it become available no marketing or press push.

df'dopp[o9[ep0[e9rj'f;lnfnklcklncd WHAT IS THE POINT OF THAT.