Are white people who say "I don't like hip hop" yet listen to it when white people make it really saying "i don't like black people"?

word is bond.

I'm gonna take a stab at a tiny thing discussed here. I like gun talk in rap (more than I like other supposed lyrical cliches). It's like watching an action movie. Sometimes it's a cheesy genre flick, but sometimes it's really well done. Some whites take gun talk too seriously, and in it see all the things they hate about (their image of) black people -- aggressive, violent, savage, nihilistic. They don't "hate" black people, they would never burn a cross or nuthin, but they can write them off (they probably have very little contact with blacks in real life), and not face up to their own racist beliefs. I'll bet dollars to donuts dude's friend doesn't talk to a whole lot of black people on a daily basis. Or read black history, watch black movies, etc. Which, ok, that's his taste, but if you live in America, it's fucking ignorant and a problem.

This isn't limited to whites. Upper-class blacks (which is a category with LOTS of baggage) have similar criticisms of guntalk/ho-talk/etc. in hip hop. Really, they're afraid of lower-class blacks (a group some "respectable" blacks, usually older, refer to as "the niggers").

So does the macho gun wielder have an undue influence on the black youf? Maybe. But do whites worry (to the same extent) that their kids' music isn't giving them the proper moral instruction? Maybe. But they miss the point. America has a lot of guns. American culture has a lot of guns (comix/movies/tv shows/rap music/toys/video games). Americans kill people with guns a lot. Rap music didn't make gun culture.

Can someone find guntalk boring? Sure. Can they say complain they "don't relate to it"? No. Black youfs don't necessarily "relate" to guns popping off everywhere 24/7. But they like strong black superheroes/supervillains a la the personas in most rap tracks derided by whites.

Anyway, this is rambling, but a lot of people, even smart ones, overlook the effect of prison culture on the current generation of blacks. The same people making hip hop were the first to be affected by the criminalization of being black and poor in the late seventies. Prison populations have skyrocketed in the past 20-30 years, a huge proportion of them black. So you get a lot of hopelessness, a lot of distrust, fear, violence, etc. Prison culture has had a huge impact on hip hop culture, but don't confuse the two.

One thing to clarify, when white folks say "they don't relate" to guntalk, there's an implicit assumption that black people who listen to rap DO relate to guntalk, carry guns all the time, rob people, etc. The average black youf may indeed come into contact with more gun crime, but they aren't robbing and shit.

Most OTM ever.

Why do we read about dead, white English people in school? etc etc etc

what.. you got a man?
-- Sterling Clover (s.clove...), July 30th, 2005.

haha!

They don't overlook it, they just don't give a shit.

It is frustrating that this never went unchallenged - Elton congratulated Eminem because he (Elton) heard Eminem's lyrics in the context of British black comedy, i.e. knew how the signifiers worked there and therefore that he wasn't being attacked as a gay man despite the appearances that so many were sucked into believing (i.e that for some reason Americans were taking the Shady persona seriously when it is obviously a comic creation).

otherwise altho im skeptical of this speculation abt elton anglocizing eminem uh, the shady persona to me is neither obviously comic nor essentially comic, it is occasionally funny, tho

There's a deep comic strain running through hip hop per se - from "Rapper's Delight" on really, white and black - Biggie and Kanye are Eminem's equal all the three are different from one another, but the Beastie Boys started out that way too - Chuck had his Flav; even The Chronic had RBX. Also you can't rule out the dozens and other game playing as deep influences.

Exactly, cuz they don't give a shit! And not just about African Americans either. They don't care about LOTS of stuff.

"scott im interested in the difference btw overlooking smthng vs not giving a shit, cld u elaborate?"

Usually, if you are overlooking something, it means that you are ignoring something or have something to overlook. That you don't want to think about something. I think, for a vast majority of people, this isn't the case. They don't think about it AT ALL. They don't think about or debate the ramifications of a corrupt and haphazard criminal justice system that is stacked against the poor and that favors people who aren't poor. They don't think about a decades-long near-genocidal war on drugs that has laid waste to GENERATIONS of American citizens and the effects that this has on society both here and abroad. They don't think about any of these things. They just want the bad guys LOCKED UP. and they want the key thrown away. They want to PUNISH "bad" people. And when those people are gone, they are DEAD. They cease to exist. And this is fine for a great many citizens of the United States. They aren't shielding their eyes from the messy realities of life and the consequences of overzealous law enforcement. They hired/voted for that overzealous law enforcement! They want vengeance, not rehabilitation. They just want people to stay off their fucking lawns. A lot of Americans have no tolerance for anything that doesn't work or that isn't working. They just throw it away. That includes people. For more insight, I recommend reading the article in the latest Harper's magazine on how Americans have perverted Christ's teachings into a personal wish-fullfillment/damn the weak philosophy that is as hard-hearted as it is mind-bogglingly selfish and diseased.

on some levels, yes, people may shy away from the specifics of poverty/prison/what their tax-dollars buy them, but some people are just naturally squeamish. other people enjoy the fruits of inequality by watching Cops and choice HBO docudramas. And some people even find themselves rooting for the children of a drug dealer. I know I'm curious as to what kinds of hijinx Meadow and Anthony Jr. are gonna get up to on the next season of The Sopranos! (jeez, if there is a next season. they really make you wait.)All in all, people seem pretty happy with the system of justice in this country that we are ALL responsible for.

That's all I meant when I said that people don't give a shit and weren't overlooking the effects of a prison-culture on people.

Someone just sent me that article a few days ago (partial text). I went to Catholic school, Congregationalist sunday school and a quaker high school so it all seems rather DUH to me. Golden rule, J-Dog chill with prostitutes, etc.

The Strokes - First Impressions of Earth
Beck - Guerolito
Eminem - Curtain Call: The Hits
Girls Aloud - Chemistry
Carl Craig - Fabric 25
Jens Lekman - Oh You're So Silent Jens
Death From Above 1979 - Romance Bloody...
Lady Sovereign - Vertically Challenged
Wilco - Kicking Television: Live in...
Menomena - Under an Hour
Bonnie Prince Billy - Summer in the...
Madonna - Confessions on a Dance Floor
Kelley Polar - Love Songs of the...
Matias Aguayo - Are You Really Lost
Kate Bush - Aerial

There are some songs and artists I can relate to (I, like Jay Z, have no patience and hate waiting), but it's not some prerequisite that I need all music to fit into for me to enjoy. Sometimes I just want to nod my head or understand the emotion the artist is feeling or space out or one of a million billion different levels I as a human can appreciate music on.

Is it?

Please highlight the exact passage where I used the words "every time I listen to music."