kid is the best damn music writer i have read in ages and i am crazy crazy jealous, like knowing what truman capote was up to his teens & 20s level jealous. just for the record.
― a dystopian society awaits if we continue on this path. (contenderizer), Thursday, September 2, 2010 1:21 AM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark
ooookay, so this i'd forgotten about. yikes. think i wrote this after first reading his stuff, several of the pieces he links at the top of his site as the work he's most proud of. and i was, momentarily, a bit overawed. apparently... i'm not exactly rescinding the praise, but i am a bit embarrassed by my tendency to go all-out (THIS SUCKS! or THIS IS GREAT!) on first exposure to new things. my initial impressions are almost always moderated and complicated by time.
i still think the guy is a talented writer, by which i mean "arranger of words in appealing sequence." i've said it before, so i won't go into it again, but i like the way he structures and tells a story. i'm impressed with his literary chops on that level. in that sense, i don't buy markers' claim that this is nothing more than poorly written inside baseball aimed at indie obsessives. it may scratch that itch that for certain readers, but it's better than that.
is this really "music writing"? i don't know that it is. it certainly isn't music criticism in any conventional sense. most of PRR's best essay-style pieces barely comment on the music they ostensibly address. they deal instead with the author's own life and with the lives of those around him, narrating certain moments spent immersed in music as culture. i guess i view these pieces as a combination of journalism and personal essay. perhaps people object to the fact PRR's (admittedly overhyped) essays have so little to say about music. i'm okay with that, because i like/admire the writing, and because i think the author frequently does manage to get at something meaningful and interesting - though more often than not it's personal rather than critical. the careful attention to the texture of professional interactions with strangers in the das racist piece, and the way it doles out and builds up its angle on immigrant experience and alienation.
― having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link
contenderizer could you link to the shit you read that made you all WOW
kind of curious, i've largely ignored this thread cuz I don't care about pitchfork or reviews of their reviews but if it's causing this much reaction consistently I guess I should at least hip myself to it
― everybody started jerkin' off the music (The Brainwasher), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 18:44 (thirteen years ago) link
well, the two recently-discussed AWL pieces are a good start. both excellent (links not far upthread). also:
there's this one, on being a fat kid.
and this one, about getting a lil wayne tattoo.
can't imagine they'd convert anyone who doesn't like what they've already read, though. his approach doesn't vary much.
― having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:01 (thirteen years ago) link
guys, editing's not a BAD word. really.
― strongohulkingtonsghost, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:04 (thirteen years ago) link
why the hell did I even try to read that Lil Wayne piece
― Monkeys? Um, no. (HI DERE), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:04 (thirteen years ago) link
so is PRR literally a viking in his dreams or not?
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:07 (thirteen years ago) link
― Monkeys? Um, no. (HI DERE), Wednesday, September 29, 2010 3:04 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark
right?
― drown sandwich (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:17 (thirteen years ago) link
i think the LW piece is both awkward-funny and kinda poignant, but not to all tastes, i guess...
― having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:19 (thirteen years ago) link
is this really "music writing"? i don't know that it is. it certainly isn't music criticism in any conventional sense. most of PRR's best essay-style pieces barely comment on the music they ostensibly address
I think he's interested in music from a sociocultural perspective, i.e. the shifting hierarchies of "coolness," Pitchfork's function as a gatekeeper, etc. A lot of his pieces scrutinize how music functions for different people, including himself. It's not conventional music criticism inasmuch as it doesn't focus primarily on the music itself, but that wider perspective also makes it more interesting to me than if he were just some enthusiastic mp3 blogger.
― jaymc, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:22 (thirteen years ago) link
okay I wz able to finish the tattoo story. he actually for the most part writes about Lil Wayne pretty well, and as promised, the heart-on-sleeve introspection did yield some evocative moments, but there's a lot of dross in there, and there's definitely at least one paragraph that ranks among the worst ever written.
― drown sandwich (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Music writing and music criticism are two different things. The former doesn't necessarily require a critical perspective on the music. Plus I frankly think the idea of criticism has been so devalued in the last ten years that everyone thinks they're a critic just because they have a blog and they listen to advances. Even worse, everyone thinks everyone ELSE is a critic for the same reason. As far as PRR goes I think the distinction is pretty fucking important, and I'd wager that he'd be the first to tell you he's not a critic, nor even a journalist.
I actually think the James Frey comparison is the most salient thing I've read in this thread. PRR reads like some hybrid of fiction/memoir, and its intent has never been to be incisive about MUSIC. Ostensibly it was created to be incisive about Pitchfork, and in reality he is compelling because he is incisive about himself.
Seems like everyone, pro or con, can agree that PRR's most distinctive quality is how much he reveals his own neuroses. Whether you find his writing successful or not--grammar aside--seems to lie in whether you see this as the point or as an obstacle to some other point.
― scott pgwp (pgwp), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:49 (thirteen years ago) link
good post
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:50 (thirteen years ago) link
He's incapable of distinguishing between the interesting and mundane aspects of his life. I'd put money on this kid being a (possibly) undiagnosed Apergers case, albeit a fairly mild one.
― Position Position, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:05 (thirteen years ago) link
I disagree
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:07 (thirteen years ago) link
I'd put money on this kid being a (possibly) undiagnosed Apergers case
this has already been said--armchair psychologists ought to stfu
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:09 (thirteen years ago) link
PRR's most distinctive quality is how much he reveals his own neuroses
Uh, read some proper confessional literature and this won't seem so distinctive. And his neuroses are such piddling things; they neither resonate with me nor move me. Who gives a shit about how some man-child who won't grow up gets insecure about ringing a doorbell.
Also, he's not a bad music writer bc he's bad on music (tho he is) - it's cuz he's a bad writer, full stop, about everything.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:15 (thirteen years ago) link
he is just the worst human being ever, and probably mentally ill, and has written some of the worst paragraphs written by any writer.
^ this thread
― If Airplanes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport (s1ocki), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:16 (thirteen years ago) link
if he was a bad writer about everything wouldn't he also be a bad writer about nothing
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:17 (thirteen years ago) link
Not saying he is a cut above all writers who write about their neuroses; I'm saying it is the most obvious characterization of his own writing. I didn't phrase it as a value judgment.
― scott pgwp (pgwp), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:21 (thirteen years ago) link
hes really quite normal in person
― max, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:22 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean at least as normal as most ilxors ive met. moreso, probably.
"hes" "really" "quite" "normal" "in person"
― Pitchfork.com, a music recommendation Web site (The Brainwasher), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:23 (thirteen years ago) link
Great point about the point.
― jaymc, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:24 (thirteen years ago) link
like if you are a teenage mercenary in mogadishu or a stickup kid in the City of God or a college student getting yourself pumped up for a recreational basketball game in italy, or borat, or a swiss girl at a party in new york, and your reference points in American rap are Notorious B.I.G. and Tupac and maybe jay-z or 50 Cent, kanye and wayne might strike you as really skilled homosexual gangsta rap parodists
the aforementioned "worst paragraph of all time." now I'm willing to guess that pretty much everyone itt knows what point PRR is trying to make here, but I'm also willing to bet that 95% would agree that this probably the worst possible way to illustrate said point.
― drown sandwich (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:25 (thirteen years ago) link
to get a sense of the broader context:
it would take like six hours to explain Wayne to someone who isn’t from America, i think, because people from other countries have different senses of humor and understandings of irony and meaning and visions of american gangsterism. like remember when Kanye West and 50 Cent both put their records out on September 11th a few years ago and 50 Cent said he would retire if Kanye outsold him and then Kanye outsold him by a lot in America but then 50 Cent sold more records worldwide so he didn’t retire?
50 Cent is a gangster cartoon and Kanye is a self-conscious weirdo who details his mixed feelings about fame and success, which wayne is and does too, and i think if you’re not familiar with the American version of Self, 50 Cent might make a lot more sense to you than Kanye. and i guess that Wayne, at his alien best and his kurt cobain worst and most places in between those, lands closer to Kanye than 50 Cent
― drown sandwich (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:27 (thirteen years ago) link
am I missing something or is he just saying their voices sound gay?
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:38 (thirteen years ago) link
you're missing something, but that's okay, so is he
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:44 (thirteen years ago) link
everything up to the conclusion was really rather salient, but the conclusion is obv insane
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:44 (thirteen years ago) link
The success of that, er, entry depends on your tolerance for faux-casual writing.
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:45 (thirteen years ago) link
my last post was meant as a joke but doesn't actually make sense. sorry.
but no, I think he's talking about deeper/broader self-presentation stuff. the one problem with this is that someone coming from the foreign contexts he's talking about is less likely to even pick up those self-presentation distinctions in the first place.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:46 (thirteen years ago) link
if you are a teenage mercenary in mogadishuor a stickup kid in the City of God ora college student gettingyourself pumped up for a recreational basketball game in italy,or borat,or a swiss girl at a party in new york,and your reference points in American rapare Notorious B.I.G.and Tupacand maybe jay-z or 50 Cent,kanye and waynemight strike you
as really skilled homosexual gangsta rap parodists
― goole, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:48 (thirteen years ago) link
like I know he's dancing around some assumed idea of people from other countries being unfamiliar with the "American Sense Of Self" (Curtis and Graduation have sold about the same internationally, actually) but the idea that they'd be perceived as a "homosexual parody" of gangsta rap kinda nullifies any other point he's trying to make.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:49 (thirteen years ago) link
dammit -- Europeans should have kept their colonies.
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:50 (thirteen years ago) link
Coming from the rich tradition of homosexual rap parodies.
― jaymc, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:51 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KTalft2T9k
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:52 (thirteen years ago) link
really skilled homosexual gangsta rap parodists
ok that is funny
― (e_3) (Edward III), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:52 (thirteen years ago) link
this guy is a media savant, you'll all be working for him someday
― (e_3) (Edward III), Monday, September 27, 2010 5:08 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark
^ I take this back, you are already all working for him
― (e_3) (Edward III), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:53 (thirteen years ago) link
already, all of you are working for him
he sounds like he'd be a chill boss
― da croupier, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:57 (thirteen years ago) link
chatty
His memo's sentences would start with "like" and he'd tell you what he told his shrink about Avey Tare
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:59 (thirteen years ago) link
this thread is like reliving the moment music lovers everywhere figured out fred durst was going to become successful and popular
― (e_3) (Edward III), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 20:59 (thirteen years ago) link
straight up, five bucks if you make this the ilm board description
would offer more, but times are tough
― aerosmith: live at gunpoint (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 21:02 (thirteen years ago) link
I am okay with making ILM all about Geir
I am not at all okay with making ILM all about PRR
― THE CHOMPING DUCK GETS HIS FATTY OUT FOR VADAR (HI DERE), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 21:03 (thirteen years ago) link
I keep reading PRR as "PBR." Or maybe I just can't wait to leave the office.
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 21:04 (thirteen years ago) link
see, even anonymous aerosmith albums in an empty room is working for him now
this kid is like a bodysnatcher
― (e_3) (Edward III), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 21:04 (thirteen years ago) link
it's okay, i think i ruined this thread :(
― drown sandwich (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
it was ruined before I created it
― markers, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 21:20 (thirteen years ago) link
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/ronaldinhopeep.jpg
― having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
this is a genius ref btw Edward III and I don't want you to think I missed it
― aerosmith: live at gunpoint (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 21:31 (thirteen years ago) link