Kelley Polar - Love Songs of The Hanging Gardens (Environ CD05)

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andy k sort of sums it up

The coordinates (for me, at least, after a few listens) include Yukihiro Takahashi's Neuromantic, the good parts of Jan Hammer's Melodies, Free Design as produced by Klein & MBO and imaginary Beach Boys re-writes of "O Superman." (Junior Boys are bound to come up as well.)
-- Andy_K (doubtbea...), August 30th, 2005 4:29 AM. (Andy_K)

ok here are some questions

laurie anderson = pop or IDM?
late brian wilson = pop or indie rock?
jan hammer = jazz or IDM?
YMO = dance-pop or IDM?

vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link

free-design = more pop than stereolab or less? their audience was certainly smaller...

vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 16:19 (eighteen years ago) link

in the same way that bunker records or creme are aimed at people who dig italo but who come to it from a techno/electro/IDM background, these environ records (or saint etienne) are aimed at people who appreciate disco/boogie/italo/synthpop (or in SE's case, different aspects of british pop) but who come at it from a very specific (and somewhat marginal) position.

This makes sense to me, I was just confused by calling Environ and Creme IDM, which I discussed above. My point is, like many genres, IDM is mostly a sound now, and it has a large set of qualities attributed to it. I think when people talk about IDM these days, they're talking about more "experimental" electronica, music that more often then not, tries to distant itself from pop or the dancefloor in a way the first wave of artists didn't.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 16:26 (eighteen years ago) link

i agree with yr criticisms of hughes especially w/r/t the middle class - it's why i'm interested honestly...i think there is this really weird idealized cultural veneer that his films represent which is spooky and compelling.

it's probably not the best idea to use film as a metaphor for music anyway. one thing i will say is that i don't find this album to be nostalgic at all. if it was, i wouldn't like it nearly as much. i think this uses elements that may appear nostalgic to come up with something new.

tricky (disco stu), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 16:31 (eighteen years ago) link

i didn't really care for this record much, so i'm not gonna bother reading this entire thread (other than doing a quick "find" for Blectum and Kristin Erickson), but is it known that Kelley Polar is the younger brother of Blectum from Blechdom's Kristin Erickson (ne Blevin Blectum)?

ken taylrr never her (ken taylrr), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 17:45 (eighteen years ago) link

he's not.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:00 (eighteen years ago) link

really? cuz i just got an email from Kristin saying:

...and keeping it in the family, my little brother Mike, aka Kelley Polar, has a new album coming out on Environ....!

http://www.environrecords.com/

KELLEY POLAR
"Love Songs of the Hanging Gardens," Kelley Polar debut CD album, is out 15 November and is preceded by a limited 12" sampler in October!

ken taylrr never her (ken taylrr), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Are you sure the email was from Kristin?

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Don't we all come at italo etc from a marginal position? is that your point Vahid?

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:41 (eighteen years ago) link

oh shit, my bad bad bad... it was from Bevin Kelley.. the other blectum. hence the "kelley" polar name... ugh. sorry.

ken taylrr never her (ken taylrr), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:49 (eighteen years ago) link

What do you think is at stake here, Vahid? I mean, I agree with where you're coming from, but what effect do you think this has?

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 22:18 (eighteen years ago) link

gavin russom is bevin & mike's cousin to boot.

milton parker (Jon L), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 22:46 (eighteen years ago) link

What do you think is at stake here, Vahid? I mean, I agree with where you're coming from, but what effect do you think this has?
-- Tim Finney (tfinne...), October 25th, 2005 4:18 PM. (Tim Finney)

the fuck? no place for hermeneutics in thinking about music?

i guess i am looking for answers about broken beat? in that kelley polar reminds me of broken beat? ie, as jerry the nipper (sort of) puts it, "with the addition of bongos, rhodes keyboards and afro-positive divas, this drum + bass track is now a JAZZ FUSION MASTERPIECE"

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 21:41 (eighteen years ago) link

andy i am more a goose gossage sort of guy (growing up in san diego, etc)

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 21:41 (eighteen years ago) link

new romantic broken beat?

tricky (disco stu), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 21:48 (eighteen years ago) link

"the fuck? no place for hermeneutics in thinking about music?"

No Vahid I wasn't saying that you can't make these sorts of comments, i was just honestly curious about whether you thought anything flowed from whether we think of Kelley Polar as IDM or pop or dance or [x] - it's precisely because I think there is a place for hermeneutics in thinking about music that I ask these questions, because I think these sorts of decisions can have effects on what we think of a piece of music, whether it is "good" or "bad" etc.

I don't have an opinion yet because I haven't heard the album.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 27 October 2005 01:11 (eighteen years ago) link

The album will be out and available for sale very soon!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 27 October 2005 14:01 (eighteen years ago) link

not sure who's flying the Kelley Polar is IDM flag but they're wrong. whether we like it or not, IDM means something entirely different today than it was initially defined. the Kelley Polar album is no more IDM than the new New Order album is Techno. i played it for a friend yesterday and he said it was minimal, modified disco with house elements. i'd have to say that's a pretty succinct description of the sound. not far removed from the Metro Area output or Lindstom + Prins Thomas. kinda like a Metro Area remix of Junior Boys. saying it's IDM is just asking for an argument, so maybe your plan succeeded. i'm listening if you care to actually make a detailed argument as to why it's IDM.

biz, Thursday, 27 October 2005 14:16 (eighteen years ago) link

i think the idm label works for this release for at least one reason and that is beacuse because morgan geist is tangentially related to the very first idm releases. hell, he may have even been involved in the creation of some (see the deepest shade of techno), i am no expert there. i think there are morgan geist releases on clear. (just checked discogs and there are some) we could call this idm because of the production as well, but i think that one is a harder argument to make. this is not to say that the album is not also synth pop, disco, broken beat...

tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:21 (eighteen years ago) link

beacuse

the genre confusion is one of the things that makes it interesting to me. (just like our mammoth "what is deep house" thread)

tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:29 (eighteen years ago) link

this is pointless and splitting hairs, but the Morgan Geist album on Clear is Clear-ly Detroit Techno, if any label can be pinned to it. By your reasoning, LCD Soundsystem are Trip-Hop because way back in the 90's Goldsworty put out tracks on Mo Wax. Bjork's Debut album is Jungle because she dated Goldie and A Certain Ratio are Electroclash because Bis did an electroclash remix of A Certain Ratio's version of Shack-Up. Photek's last album was also minimal DnB/Jungle because at one time, he produced that sound. the KP album is a Pop album that has disco, house and synth-pop as it's main references.

biz, Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:33 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost

actually that's not entirely true. when i listen to this, i do not think of genre for a second (well now i probably will). it is in the context of this thread and our discourse here that i find the genre confusion interesting.

speaking of splitting hairs, morgan geist is from new jersey not detroit, but point taken.

tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:41 (eighteen years ago) link

yes, obviously he's from new jersey, but his album can't be classified as New Jersey Techno, can it?

biz, Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:43 (eighteen years ago) link

why not?

tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Morgan was certainly inspired by some of the early releases of IDM, but I think the IDM that I knew and loved had run it's course prior to his first release.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:47 (eighteen years ago) link

this is going to rapidly get pointless if it isn't already. how's this: the kelley polar album has qualities that make it similar to early idm. the fact that idm is now a label that refers to something that sounds completely different is beside the point.

xpost, completely agree dan - "idm" is now largely shit and a completely moronic genre name.

tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:49 (eighteen years ago) link

my point re: IDM, like other genre names that get messed up along the way, I tend to always go with what the meaning currently is and not what it was. In 1995, I was an "electro" dj who played nothing but classic breakdance cuts. If you call yourself an electro dj today people are going to expect basically, synth-pop, italo etc. Likewise I wouldn't be suprised if many current IDM fans would be confused at hearing something like Black Dog's Virtual or B12's early singles.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:53 (eighteen years ago) link

that's too sensible though!

tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:57 (eighteen years ago) link

i mean i do the same thing, too, but for the purposes of this discussion i think it is more than fair to say that this album has roots in idm (and detroit techno) - even if those roots go really far back.

tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 27 October 2005 16:02 (eighteen years ago) link

genres don't have to grow linearly.

tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 27 October 2005 16:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Tricky, i agree it shares elements with the original sound or idea of IDM. Orbital was lumped in with the IDM movement in the early days and I can understand where you're coming from...However, as mentioned upthread, it's the attention to detail in the production that lend it that Original IDM sound, rather than experimental, intricate rhythms commonly associated with the sound today.

biz, Thursday, 27 October 2005 16:04 (eighteen years ago) link

i agree! sorry if i'm being unclear.

tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 27 October 2005 16:08 (eighteen years ago) link

It's may be fair to say it has roots in IDM, but it would be unwise to do so if your goal is to communicate something others will understand.

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 27 October 2005 16:20 (eighteen years ago) link

yes, and conversely, if things were easy to understand, there would be little point in communicating.

tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 27 October 2005 17:08 (eighteen years ago) link

saying it's IDM is just asking for an argument, so maybe your plan succeeded. i'm listening if you care to actually make a detailed argument as to why it's IDM.
-- biz (b...), October 27th, 2005 8:16 AM.

no dummy, because my mom knows what disco is and if i played her kelley polar she'd just say "oh, more electronic noise?" she can tell the difference between disco and other music but to the 99% of the populace that don't listen to minimal electronica this simply isn't disco, or nu romantic or pop or whatever.

vahid (vahid), Thursday, 27 October 2005 17:45 (eighteen years ago) link

hey vahid, no need to start name calling. i must be dumb though, cuz i can't follow your argument. are you saying that you want to classify Kelley Polar as IDM because 99% of the population won't know any better? are you on a one man crusade to change the perception and accepted definitions of electronic music genres? i'd beg to differ that the masses wouldn't identify the Kelley Polar sound as disco. that's probably the first thing they'd say.

dummy, Thursday, 27 October 2005 18:08 (eighteen years ago) link

before we go out for dinner tonight i am gonna play the kelley polar record for my mom and test vahid's hypothesis. (he's otm, btw.)

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 27 October 2005 18:11 (eighteen years ago) link

it's IDM in the same way Bjork is IDM, ha. I'm gonna play it to (a) a bjork/kate bush loving choirboy (b) a joanna newsom loving piano teacher this weekend & see what they think.

etc, Thursday, 27 October 2005 19:20 (eighteen years ago) link

also PET SHOP BOYS B-SIDES | ARTHUR RUSSELL | TRAVELOGUE BRANE IN CRASH BODY (OR VICE VERSA), &c&c&c

that nagging vocal bit in "my beauty in the moon" . . . andrew suggested "wood beez" or limahl's neverending story theme, ha.

I love how it's neuromantic but w/out the emotronica quality that the junior boys/superpitcher/&c have - it's so urbane! both baroque/choral AND on a great gatsby jazz age tip! i'd argue that there's no indie in this record's DNA.

etc, Thursday, 27 October 2005 19:27 (eighteen years ago) link

(um if vahid still wants to know people's &c&c&c - I'd still rate "miura" & "the rhythm touch" over this, but I find really, really few albums-that-function-as-albums that I like, especially one that seems both self-sufficient/self-contained as this one - it works according to an internal logic, & I can't easily pinpoint/"solve" it. (molars post where he speculates on it's emergent properties is OTM). that the tracks are generally half the length of the 12" recordings helps w/this.)

etc, Thursday, 27 October 2005 19:32 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah well it's not fucking idm or broken beat either, and playtesting to fans of those genres would just as swiftly prove that as the not disco test.

wait, I see the point, we've all been hoodwinked! we love broken beat!!!!!

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 27 October 2005 20:29 (eighteen years ago) link

"everything I touch turns to rhythm,
every sound I hear is music,
every night I can't stop dancing,
it's better than, better than, better than...
oooo, oooo, oooo . . .

every song I dance to is magic,
every room I'm in keeps on moving,
when I sleep my dreams are filled with motion
it never gets, never gets, never gets...
oooo, oooo, oooo . . ."

= some of my favourite lyrics of the past few years - the implication & deferment of "you" in the first verse is up there w/phil oakey also avoiding "you" in "love action".

hmmn, possible convergent evolution w/indie - magnetic fields' "all the umbrellas in london"/"rats in the garbage of the western world", if they'd actually sounded like the NY discos stephin merritt has undoubtedly hung out at.

etc, Thursday, 27 October 2005 20:49 (eighteen years ago) link

sounds a lot like nick drake to me, the muted vocals, the tunings, the probably-purple shoes

c7n (Cozen), Thursday, 27 October 2005 21:12 (eighteen years ago) link

psyche, obv

c7n (Cozen), Thursday, 27 October 2005 21:14 (eighteen years ago) link

it's the attention to detail in the production that lend it that Original IDM sound, rather than experimental, intricate rhythms commonly associated with the sound today.
-- biz (b...), October 27th, 2005 10:04 AM.

it's nice to see you have such a nuanced defn of IDM!

vahid (vahid), Friday, 28 October 2005 00:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Does this music sound different if you listen to it as "IDM" and not as "disco" or "pop" or "x"?

Not a trick question! If I ask the same question while listening to Luciano, the answer is "Yes!"

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 28 October 2005 03:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Certainly these different feelings can directly come out in distinctly themed DJ mix. You could frame a Jamie Principle track in a mix and hear it as pop, chicago house, r&b, or new wave.

Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Friday, 28 October 2005 05:27 (eighteen years ago) link

vahid, do you think IDM is compatible with song form?

etc, Friday, 28 October 2005 06:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I like this (the two songs I've heard) more than I did, but the vocals... I do wish they weren't so considered still.

login name (fandango), Friday, 28 October 2005 13:52 (eighteen years ago) link


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