classic Wu-Tang solo run poll

croupier i know this theory doesnt fit into your bias towards music that is un-selfaware and silly (when not performed by the electric 6) but i dont think im really saying anything radical here

"The word 'precursor' is indispensable to the vocabulary of criticism, but one must try to purify it from any connotation of polemic or rivalry. The fact is that each writer creates his precursors. His work modifies our conception of the past, as it will modify the future."

― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:19 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hey im totally flexible here!! who knows what could happen. im just HYPOTHESIZING

i remember when metal dudes used to get all mad and tell you "speed metal" wasn't a genre

you guys, dont you realize sean f & nick sylvester basically created 'coke rap' in a pfork staffboard lab back in '06

... and yet he would never say it in a corny way like that

i know you're on this "hey it's all subjective" thing, but to act like there's a demonstrative difference between Run-DMC saying "sucker MCs should call me sire" and Rakim's "I melted microphones instead of cones of ice cream" is pretty absurd

how else are we supposed to evaluate art? i hear a pretty qualitative difference between those two quotes. if you dont think one sounds cornier than the other then, ok, you dont. but i think its pretty self-evident, even if subjective

anyway im going to dinner yall have fun play nice

are you saying rakim is just less corny? cuz you previously said shouty 'you can call me sire!' rap doesnt anticipate the kind of turn rap would take the way rakim's persona & personality would on 'paid in full' and well, both were braggarts!

you guys, dont you realize sean f & nick sylvester basically created 'coke rap' in a pfork staffboard lab back in '06

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/10/12/arts/13sann.1.184.jpg

are you saying rakim is just less corny? cuz you previously said shouty 'you can call me sire!' rap doesnt anticipate the kind of turn rap would take the way rakim's persona & personality would on 'paid in full' and well, both were braggarts!

― da croupier, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:26 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what does bragging have to do w/ this?

couldnt resist a refresh

i hear a pretty qualitative difference between those two quotes.

the thing is this: if you can't state what that qualitative difference is in formal terms, then you oughtn't assert a difference; you should just say that you prefer one to the other. imo.

what does bragging have to do w/ this?

so by "persona & personality" i guess you mean flow and not persona & personality

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/10/12/arts/13sann.1.184.jpg

― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:27 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

thats a t shirt not a genre

RIP the Luniz Condom genre of Sex Rap

so by "persona & personality" i guess you mean flow and not persona & personality

― da croupier, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:29 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

flow is a part of personality -- this is so obvious that i swear you are trolling

aesthetics are a part of personality

you're right deej

hardly anybody rapping about dealing coke

it's more a blown out of proportion by the media thing

i give up

i remember reading a like four-page story on coke-rap in XXL

i love the idea that the notion of "coke rap" was started by sylvester & sean f on the pfork staff board -- it's very tea party

xp @ deep YOU WERE THE GUY USING ONE DUDE'S FORMER-CRACK-BABY STATUS FOR POINTS ON A THREAD a few minutes ago, btw

seriously, if you can't see how the rapper who rapped smooth and fast about how great he was and the rappers who rapped slow and loud about how great they were share similar "personas & personality"...fine.

i hope shakey can appreciate a conspiracy theory of this level

xp @ deep

very unfortunate typo

dude I'm pretty sure you know what I mean by "coke rap". but maybe you don't? so I dunno, lemme try to spell out what bugs me about this whole conversation:

- You think GZA's style sounds played-out; other people don't. So far, no problem.
- You attribute this to his use of certain forms of 'wordplay' which have since fallen out of fashion.
- You attribute this falling-out-of-fashion to an increased emphasis on 'persona/character'.
- You posit that rappers who never succumbed to the temptations of wordplay were objectively better ("timeless") thanks to their uncanny foresight into the future evolution of rap, or what-the-fuck-ever.
- Numerous people protest that both wordplay and persona have been part of rap from the start; that it's pretty silly to talk about an overall "direction" of something which continues to evolve and change; that you're using a narrow criterion of 'persona' that tautologically asserts the superiority of -- surprise! -- the very same stylistic devices that rappers with those personas tend to have used to construct them, while consigning everything else to some realm of naive outdated 'character-breaking' shit; and probably some other arguments, because JESUS MAN

(many xposts, obv)

and I might be talkin' to a dude who's not even here anymore

oh don't worry, he'll be back

should i put out the gucci call?

if the "paper planes" argument taught us anything, it's that a little dinner is not gonna come in between a depressingly long argument b/w deej & miccio

haha i said i'm done! should have learned from that that trying to unpack his terminology just gets you a lot of "hey it's all subjective man" jive. Apologies to everybody that just wanted to rank the wu debuts

"there's no such thing as a crime novel - crime is an element in many novels, but to then group all which adhere to some fairly strict constraints of tone & style & theme under the term 'crime novels' is just insane"

I have had to come back and refresh this thread three times before getting a chance to say but

So yeah, Meth has three platinum albums whereas Ghost has only one (Ironman).

Four if you count Blackout! That discography is also really interesting to note how generous Meth has been about appearing on almost any other Clan solo album that wants him, which has an additional effect of increasing his “brand awareness,” as a business-minded coke dealer might say

i never even thought GZA was especially cokey. dude always talked about mind elevation and dickhead record labels are iirc

i hope shakey can appreciate a conspiracy theory of this level

reminds me of the '86 secret meeting in Vienna where Geir invented power pop

he did bring out the girls for a mud fight that one time

xp

this is some bullshit

the everybody vs deej pileon i mean

- You posit that rappers who never succumbed to the temptations of wordplay were objectively better ("timeless") thanks to their uncanny foresight into the future evolution of rap, or what-the-fuck-ever.

bullshit

learn to read?

i remember reading a like four-page story on coke-rap in XXL

― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes a cynical piece in xxl written in the wake of critics obsession with the clipse

hardly anybody rapping about dealing coke

it's more a blown out of proportion by the media thing

― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:29 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i never said 'no one was rapping about coke' i said it wasnt a genre, its just an aspect of life that happens to be covered by rappers a lot because of where it happens to have a huge fucking impact. its not an aesthetic of musical creation

seriously, if you can't see how the rapper who rapped smooth and fast about how great he was and the rappers who rapped slow and loud about how great they were share similar "personas & personality"...fine.

― da croupier, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:31 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

this is like offensively stupid

- Numerous people protest that both wordplay and persona have been part of rap from the start; that it's pretty silly to talk about an overall "direction" of something which continues to evolve and change; that you're using a narrow criterion of 'persona' that tautologically asserts the superiority of -- surprise! -- the very same stylistic devices that rappers with those personas tend to have used to construct them, while consigning everything else to some realm of naive outdated 'character-breaking' shit; and probably some other arguments, because JESUS MAN

― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think you can talk about broad trends & tendencies w/out throwing up your hands & saying "who knows whats actually happening! its all so complicated!!"

yes a cynical piece in xxl written in the wake of critics obsession with the clipse

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:57 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

written btw by kris ex who was v much interacting w this world

hahaha oh my

i hear xxl did their "Shyne: The last real rapper alive" cover in response to Joe Tangari's Cloud Nothing's review

i didn't wanna pile on but it's not like your ideas are developed or clear here, and you getting angry when ppl are dickish doesn't make u get clearer.

deej in 10... 9... 8...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/scanners.gif

i hear xxl did their "Shyne: The last real rapper alive" cover in response to Joe Tangari's Cloud Nothing's review

― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, October 14, 2010 9:01 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i heard whiney is a moron & actually yeah the rap blogosphere was a lot smaller back then ... kris ex would post comments on dk from ilx's blog! he was absolutely responding to the 'coke rap' stuff being written about exclusively (at that time) by pfork