xp @ deep
very unfortunate typo
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:32 (thirteen years ago) link
dude I'm pretty sure you know what I mean by "coke rap". but maybe you don't? so I dunno, lemme try to spell out what bugs me about this whole conversation:
- You think GZA's style sounds played-out; other people don't. So far, no problem.- You attribute this to his use of certain forms of 'wordplay' which have since fallen out of fashion.- You attribute this falling-out-of-fashion to an increased emphasis on 'persona/character'.- You posit that rappers who never succumbed to the temptations of wordplay were objectively better ("timeless") thanks to their uncanny foresight into the future evolution of rap, or what-the-fuck-ever.- Numerous people protest that both wordplay and persona have been part of rap from the start; that it's pretty silly to talk about an overall "direction" of something which continues to evolve and change; that you're using a narrow criterion of 'persona' that tautologically asserts the superiority of -- surprise! -- the very same stylistic devices that rappers with those personas tend to have used to construct them, while consigning everything else to some realm of naive outdated 'character-breaking' shit; and probably some other arguments, because JESUS MAN
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:32 (thirteen years ago) link
(many xposts, obv)
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:33 (thirteen years ago) link
and I might be talkin' to a dude who's not even here anymore
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:34 (thirteen years ago) link
oh don't worry, he'll be back
― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:35 (thirteen years ago) link
should i put out the gucci call?
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:36 (thirteen years ago) link
if the "paper planes" argument taught us anything, it's that a little dinner is not gonna come in between a depressingly long argument b/w deej & miccio
― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:37 (thirteen years ago) link
haha i said i'm done! should have learned from that that trying to unpack his terminology just gets you a lot of "hey it's all subjective man" jive. Apologies to everybody that just wanted to rank the wu debuts
― da croupier, Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:39 (thirteen years ago) link
"there's no such thing as a crime novel - crime is an element in many novels, but to then group all which adhere to some fairly strict constraints of tone & style & theme under the term 'crime novels' is just insane"
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:39 (thirteen years ago) link
I have had to come back and refresh this thread three times before getting a chance to say but
So yeah, Meth has three platinum albums whereas Ghost has only one (Ironman).
Four if you count Blackout! That discography is also really interesting to note how generous Meth has been about appearing on almost any other Clan solo album that wants him, which has an additional effect of increasing his “brand awareness,” as a business-minded coke dealer might say
― Mary Lynn Ice Cube (sic), Thursday, 14 October 2010 01:02 (thirteen years ago) link
i never even thought GZA was especially cokey. dude always talked about mind elevation and dickhead record labels are iirc
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 01:09 (thirteen years ago) link
i hope shakey can appreciate a conspiracy theory of this level
reminds me of the '86 secret meeting in Vienna where Geir invented power pop
― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 October 2010 02:56 (thirteen years ago) link
he did bring out the girls for a mud fight that one time
xp
― vehemence is mine (Edward III), Thursday, 14 October 2010 13:51 (thirteen years ago) link
this is some bullshit
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 13:56 (thirteen years ago) link
the everybody vs deej pileon i mean
- You posit that rappers who never succumbed to the temptations of wordplay were objectively better ("timeless") thanks to their uncanny foresight into the future evolution of rap, or what-the-fuck-ever.
bullshit
learn to read?
i remember reading a like four-page story on coke-rap in XXL
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yes a cynical piece in xxl written in the wake of critics obsession with the clipse
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 13:57 (thirteen years ago) link
hardly anybody rapping about dealing coke
it's more a blown out of proportion by the media thing
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:29 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i never said 'no one was rapping about coke' i said it wasnt a genre, its just an aspect of life that happens to be covered by rappers a lot because of where it happens to have a huge fucking impact. its not an aesthetic of musical creation
seriously, if you can't see how the rapper who rapped smooth and fast about how great he was and the rappers who rapped slow and loud about how great they were share similar "personas & personality"...fine.
― da croupier, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:31 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
this is like offensively stupid
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 13:58 (thirteen years ago) link
- Numerous people protest that both wordplay and persona have been part of rap from the start; that it's pretty silly to talk about an overall "direction" of something which continues to evolve and change; that you're using a narrow criterion of 'persona' that tautologically asserts the superiority of -- surprise! -- the very same stylistic devices that rappers with those personas tend to have used to construct them, while consigning everything else to some realm of naive outdated 'character-breaking' shit; and probably some other arguments, because JESUS MAN
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i think you can talk about broad trends & tendencies w/out throwing up your hands & saying "who knows whats actually happening! its all so complicated!!"
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:00 (thirteen years ago) link
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:57 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
written btw by kris ex who was v much interacting w this world
hahaha oh my
― waka flocka display name (zvookster), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:01 (thirteen years ago) link
i hear xxl did their "Shyne: The last real rapper alive" cover in response to Joe Tangari's Cloud Nothing's review
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:01 (thirteen years ago) link
i didn't wanna pile on but it's not like your ideas are developed or clear here, and you getting angry when ppl are dickish doesn't make u get clearer.
― waka flocka display name (zvookster), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:04 (thirteen years ago) link
deej in 10... 9... 8...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/scanners.gif
― vehemence is mine (Edward III), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:06 (thirteen years ago) link
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, October 14, 2010 9:01 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i heard whiney is a moron & actually yeah the rap blogosphere was a lot smaller back then ... kris ex would post comments on dk from ilx's blog! he was absolutely responding to the 'coke rap' stuff being written about exclusively (at that time) by pfork
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:13 (thirteen years ago) link
& 'coke rap' is meaningless. its not a genre. or subgenre. its just common subject matter for music that comes from the inner city SHOCKER
i pile on for my city, on on for my city...i pile oooooon
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:14 (thirteen years ago) link
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:09 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
maybe listen to his album
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:16 (thirteen years ago) link
the difference between me and you is that my statements are like "well i never really thought of it this way" and yours are like "the way you think of it is wrong"
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:18 (thirteen years ago) link
its just common subject matter for music that comes from the inner city major label record execs SHOCKER
― more than ever convinced ilxor is a sock (ilxor), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:18 (thirteen years ago) link
deej, i'm gonna go work now, go argue with the other 500 people itt calling you an idiot
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:19 (thirteen years ago) link
pulled Tical off the shelf today and holy shit, I'd sort of forgotten how much I like this
― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:21 (thirteen years ago) link
― da croupier, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:39 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
wow youre so reasonable!!
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:21 (thirteen years ago) link
for some stupid reason I only have Tical and Ironman; this thread is making me want to change that immediately
― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:22 (thirteen years ago) link
xp @ deep YOU WERE THE GUY USING ONE DUDE'S FORMER-CRACK-BABY STATUS FOR POINTS ON A THREAD a few minutes ago, btw
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i wasnt using it for 'points' u goof i was pointing out how you treating REAL LIFE SHIT like its some kind of tasteless 'trend' is offensive
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:23 (thirteen years ago) link
you're treating "realism" and "rap" as though they were linked on some basic conceptual level, as though it didn't take YEARS to get from raps about how well you rap to raps about WHAT IT'S LIKE ON THE STREETS
wait, waht
I mean, I was going to stay out of this but how the hell can this be considered anything but crazy talk given that "The Message" is routinely considered to be one of the greatest hip-hop tracks of all time?
(I kind of want to go into early party-record hip-hop as a modern iteration of plantation music sung by a downtrodden people to uplift themselves as well, making it a direct reaction to the real-life situations many of the early emcees dealt with but I'd be regurgitating other people's words and not really making my own arguments, plus you probably know that argument already.)
― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:32 (thirteen years ago) link
oh man return to the 36 chambers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrv3SSpncPM
― vehemence is mine (Edward III), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:33 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost HIDERE OTM
even by recorded hip-hop's second year, "The Breaks" was pretty much a take on real-life economic woes and systemic racism, albeit a comical one
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:35 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-HQR2-s1J4
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:40 (thirteen years ago) link
just in case y'all haven't been to the mesopotamia of gangsta rap:
1983!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXMlPKAo7I
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:43 (thirteen years ago) link
I'd like to remind deej that the rappin' duke carried a gun
― vehemence is mine (Edward III), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:46 (thirteen years ago) link
hi dere was addressing bernard snowy tho
― waka flocka display name (zvookster), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:49 (thirteen years ago) link
http://hoodhype.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/jeezy_1000_grams.jpg
I don't know anything about how you came up deej but I will tell you that afaik there are many realities to life in poor neighborhoods and importing multiple kilos of coke doesn't actually constitute such a massive % of it that you're cheating "reality" to not make it the centerpiece of your entire career. or to make it such a key (lol) aspect of yr schtick that magazines that like you & are trying to keep your profile up, not just dumbshit herbs like me call your genre "coke rap."
I mean really dude
"sure there are some songs about coke, coke's a reality in the inner city" is really soft-soaping the disproportionate representation of the coke dealer in rap - if there was actually that much coke around I would be high right now instead of arguing with a fellow liberal arts grad about what life is like in the "inner city." do goregrind freaks complain about the term "goregrind"? no man. it's grind with gore-focused lyrics. it is fair to call it "goregrind."
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:58 (thirteen years ago) link
but gore happens in the inner city!
― melody-hating aggr0 nerd (San Te), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:00 (thirteen years ago) link
Call it Coke-Hop and I'm sold.
― EZ Snappin, Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:01 (thirteen years ago) link
aerosmith otm again
i've never exactly been to the inner city think the solid decade and a half where gangsta rappers talked about being broke, being harassed by racist cops, the looming threat of random violence and the broken judicial system are probably more accurate realities than the mid-00s winter wonderland where everyone was a big-balling coke dealer
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:07 (thirteen years ago) link
*been to the inner city BUT I think
it's funny to me that coke rap is playing into this discussion in 2010--well i guess fantasy coke rap is still a thing but i'd love to hear more gritty shit and it seems like a lot of the most popular rappers are just worlds away from that.
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:11 (thirteen years ago) link