- Numerous people protest that both wordplay and persona have been part of rap from the start; that it's pretty silly to talk about an overall "direction" of something which continues to evolve and change; that you're using a narrow criterion of 'persona' that tautologically asserts the superiority of -- surprise! -- the very same stylistic devices that rappers with those personas tend to have used to construct them, while consigning everything else to some realm of naive outdated 'character-breaking' shit; and probably some other arguments, because JESUS MAN
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i think you can talk about broad trends & tendencies w/out throwing up your hands & saying "who knows whats actually happening! its all so complicated!!"
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:00 (thirteen years ago) link
yes a cynical piece in xxl written in the wake of critics obsession with the clipse
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:57 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
written btw by kris ex who was v much interacting w this world
hahaha oh my
― waka flocka display name (zvookster), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:01 (thirteen years ago) link
i hear xxl did their "Shyne: The last real rapper alive" cover in response to Joe Tangari's Cloud Nothing's review
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:01 (thirteen years ago) link
i didn't wanna pile on but it's not like your ideas are developed or clear here, and you getting angry when ppl are dickish doesn't make u get clearer.
― waka flocka display name (zvookster), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:04 (thirteen years ago) link
deej in 10... 9... 8...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/scanners.gif
― vehemence is mine (Edward III), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:06 (thirteen years ago) link
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, October 14, 2010 9:01 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i heard whiney is a moron & actually yeah the rap blogosphere was a lot smaller back then ... kris ex would post comments on dk from ilx's blog! he was absolutely responding to the 'coke rap' stuff being written about exclusively (at that time) by pfork
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:13 (thirteen years ago) link
& 'coke rap' is meaningless. its not a genre. or subgenre. its just common subject matter for music that comes from the inner city SHOCKER
i pile on for my city, on on for my city...i pile oooooon
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:14 (thirteen years ago) link
i never even thought GZA was especially cokey. dude always talked about mind elevation and dickhead record labels are iirc
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:09 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
maybe listen to his album
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:16 (thirteen years ago) link
the difference between me and you is that my statements are like "well i never really thought of it this way" and yours are like "the way you think of it is wrong"
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:18 (thirteen years ago) link
its just common subject matter for music that comes from the inner city major label record execs SHOCKER
― more than ever convinced ilxor is a sock (ilxor), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:18 (thirteen years ago) link
deej, i'm gonna go work now, go argue with the other 500 people itt calling you an idiot
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:19 (thirteen years ago) link
pulled Tical off the shelf today and holy shit, I'd sort of forgotten how much I like this
― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:21 (thirteen years ago) link
haha i said i'm done! should have learned from that that trying to unpack his terminology just gets you a lot of "hey it's all subjective man" jive. Apologies to everybody that just wanted to rank the wu debuts
― da croupier, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:39 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
wow youre so reasonable!!
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:21 (thirteen years ago) link
for some stupid reason I only have Tical and Ironman; this thread is making me want to change that immediately
― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:22 (thirteen years ago) link
xp @ deep YOU WERE THE GUY USING ONE DUDE'S FORMER-CRACK-BABY STATUS FOR POINTS ON A THREAD a few minutes ago, btw
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i wasnt using it for 'points' u goof i was pointing out how you treating REAL LIFE SHIT like its some kind of tasteless 'trend' is offensive
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:23 (thirteen years ago) link
you're treating "realism" and "rap" as though they were linked on some basic conceptual level, as though it didn't take YEARS to get from raps about how well you rap to raps about WHAT IT'S LIKE ON THE STREETS
wait, waht
I mean, I was going to stay out of this but how the hell can this be considered anything but crazy talk given that "The Message" is routinely considered to be one of the greatest hip-hop tracks of all time?
(I kind of want to go into early party-record hip-hop as a modern iteration of plantation music sung by a downtrodden people to uplift themselves as well, making it a direct reaction to the real-life situations many of the early emcees dealt with but I'd be regurgitating other people's words and not really making my own arguments, plus you probably know that argument already.)
― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:32 (thirteen years ago) link
oh man return to the 36 chambers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrv3SSpncPM
― vehemence is mine (Edward III), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:33 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost HIDERE OTM
even by recorded hip-hop's second year, "The Breaks" was pretty much a take on real-life economic woes and systemic racism, albeit a comical one
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:35 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-HQR2-s1J4
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:40 (thirteen years ago) link
just in case y'all haven't been to the mesopotamia of gangsta rap:
1983!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXMlPKAo7I
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:43 (thirteen years ago) link
I'd like to remind deej that the rappin' duke carried a gun
― vehemence is mine (Edward III), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:46 (thirteen years ago) link
hi dere was addressing bernard snowy tho
― waka flocka display name (zvookster), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:49 (thirteen years ago) link
http://hoodhype.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/jeezy_1000_grams.jpg
I don't know anything about how you came up deej but I will tell you that afaik there are many realities to life in poor neighborhoods and importing multiple kilos of coke doesn't actually constitute such a massive % of it that you're cheating "reality" to not make it the centerpiece of your entire career. or to make it such a key (lol) aspect of yr schtick that magazines that like you & are trying to keep your profile up, not just dumbshit herbs like me call your genre "coke rap."
I mean really dude
"sure there are some songs about coke, coke's a reality in the inner city" is really soft-soaping the disproportionate representation of the coke dealer in rap - if there was actually that much coke around I would be high right now instead of arguing with a fellow liberal arts grad about what life is like in the "inner city." do goregrind freaks complain about the term "goregrind"? no man. it's grind with gore-focused lyrics. it is fair to call it "goregrind."
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 14:58 (thirteen years ago) link
but gore happens in the inner city!
― melody-hating aggr0 nerd (San Te), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:00 (thirteen years ago) link
Call it Coke-Hop and I'm sold.
― EZ Snappin, Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:01 (thirteen years ago) link
aerosmith otm again
i've never exactly been to the inner city think the solid decade and a half where gangsta rappers talked about being broke, being harassed by racist cops, the looming threat of random violence and the broken judicial system are probably more accurate realities than the mid-00s winter wonderland where everyone was a big-balling coke dealer
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:07 (thirteen years ago) link
*been to the inner city BUT I think
it's funny to me that coke rap is playing into this discussion in 2010--well i guess fantasy coke rap is still a thing but i'd love to hear more gritty shit and it seems like a lot of the most popular rappers are just worlds away from that.
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:11 (thirteen years ago) link
j0hn yr arguing w something i never said / i was talking about J STALIN not YOUNG JEEZY -- v diff perfomers here
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:12 (thirteen years ago) link
& i mean what do you tell a rapper like j stalin, actual crack baby who sold drugs when he was young & turned to rap -- 'sorry your life story is passe!'
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:00 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:13 (thirteen years ago) link
wait, wahtI mean, I was going to stay out of this but how the hell can this be considered anything but crazy talk given that "The Message" is routinely considered to be one of the greatest hip-hop tracks of all time?(I kind of want to go into early party-record hip-hop as a modern iteration of plantation music sung by a downtrodden people to uplift themselves as well, making it a direct reaction to the real-life situations many of the early emcees dealt with but I'd be regurgitating other people's words and not really making my own arguments, plus you probably know that argument already.)― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, October 14, 2010 2:32 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark
― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, October 14, 2010 2:32 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:14 (thirteen years ago) link
speaking of coke-rap, when's that new BERNARD SNOWY mixtape coming out?
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:15 (thirteen years ago) link
like this may be a hopelessly retarded question but how did we get from "gza was on some proto-grocery bag ish" to "gza failed to predict trends in rap"--or are we just excluding that subset of popular rappers from the conversation?
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:16 (thirteen years ago) link
OK I forget how good this was:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dumqStn1oQY
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:17 (thirteen years ago) link
deej you 1) argued that the term "coke rap" is offensive & inaccurate and 2) said this: & 'coke rap' is meaningless. its not a genre. or subgenre. its just common subject matter for music that comes from the inner city SHOCKER
that is the line I am taking issue with
you said it
I quoted you
I am not "arguing with something you never said"
I am arguing with your acceptance of a caricature of inner city life that sells out all the struggling people who live there in favor of scarface fantasy bullshit, which caricature is what's offensive, not grouping a bunch of guys who romanticize poisoning their neighborhoods together under one term like "coke rap"
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:18 (thirteen years ago) link
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:18 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
im arguing that the scarface fantasy is popular in the inner city, not that its ACCURATE
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:22 (thirteen years ago) link
yes, you are
this is a breathtaking mid-stream horse change & I salute you for it
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:23 (thirteen years ago) link
Good to see nothing about deej has changed in all these years.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:26 (thirteen years ago) link
aerosmith basically saying what I'm thinking here
jsut like to add that there's a weird disconnect between asserting that the prevalence of coke-dealing themes in modern hip hop is a reflection of "reality" while at the same time arguing that rappers these days are more well-defined aesthetic creations/personas than they were in the past - like, which one is it, fiction or non-fiction. is all this coke-themed stuff acceptable because it's REAL-LIFE REPORTING or because it's just a harmless cartoon? personally I think both positions are still basically suspect...
xp
― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:28 (thirteen years ago) link
im arguing that the scarface fantasy is popular in the inner city
where the hell did this come from...? I assume you're aware that "scarface fantasies" are even MORE popular outside of the inner city and maybe that's why so many rappers go to it - cuz that's where the money/major overlapping audience $$$ is...?
― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:30 (thirteen years ago) link
btw I apologize for this thread derail to anyone who was hoping for yet another nuanced discussion of the Wu-era
― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:31 (thirteen years ago) link
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:23 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark
how so??? all i said was as quoted by you "coke rap' is meaningless. its not a genre. or subgenre. its just common subject matter for music that comes from the inner city SHOCKER"
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:31 (thirteen years ago) link
i never said anything abt 'real life reporting'
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:32 (thirteen years ago) link
you jumped to conclusions
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:34 (thirteen years ago) link
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/onlygirl_1/backpeddling.gif
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:36 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm going to keep osting clips:
Hey, look, ODB taught me about Jim Croce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzHC6dxhVOc
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:36 (thirteen years ago) link
& i mean what do you tell a rapper like j stalin, actual crack baby who sold drugs when he was young & turned to rap -- 'sorry your life story is passe!'― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:00 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:37 (thirteen years ago) link