Call it Coke-Hop and I'm sold.
― EZ Snappin, Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:01 (thirteen years ago) link
aerosmith otm again
i've never exactly been to the inner city think the solid decade and a half where gangsta rappers talked about being broke, being harassed by racist cops, the looming threat of random violence and the broken judicial system are probably more accurate realities than the mid-00s winter wonderland where everyone was a big-balling coke dealer
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:07 (thirteen years ago) link
*been to the inner city BUT I think
it's funny to me that coke rap is playing into this discussion in 2010--well i guess fantasy coke rap is still a thing but i'd love to hear more gritty shit and it seems like a lot of the most popular rappers are just worlds away from that.
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:11 (thirteen years ago) link
j0hn yr arguing w something i never said / i was talking about J STALIN not YOUNG JEEZY -- v diff perfomers here
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:12 (thirteen years ago) link
& i mean what do you tell a rapper like j stalin, actual crack baby who sold drugs when he was young & turned to rap -- 'sorry your life story is passe!'
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:00 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:13 (thirteen years ago) link
wait, wahtI mean, I was going to stay out of this but how the hell can this be considered anything but crazy talk given that "The Message" is routinely considered to be one of the greatest hip-hop tracks of all time?(I kind of want to go into early party-record hip-hop as a modern iteration of plantation music sung by a downtrodden people to uplift themselves as well, making it a direct reaction to the real-life situations many of the early emcees dealt with but I'd be regurgitating other people's words and not really making my own arguments, plus you probably know that argument already.)― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, October 14, 2010 2:32 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark
I mean, I was going to stay out of this but how the hell can this be considered anything but crazy talk given that "The Message" is routinely considered to be one of the greatest hip-hop tracks of all time?
(I kind of want to go into early party-record hip-hop as a modern iteration of plantation music sung by a downtrodden people to uplift themselves as well, making it a direct reaction to the real-life situations many of the early emcees dealt with but I'd be regurgitating other people's words and not really making my own arguments, plus you probably know that argument already.)
― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, October 14, 2010 2:32 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:14 (thirteen years ago) link
speaking of coke-rap, when's that new BERNARD SNOWY mixtape coming out?
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:15 (thirteen years ago) link
like this may be a hopelessly retarded question but how did we get from "gza was on some proto-grocery bag ish" to "gza failed to predict trends in rap"--or are we just excluding that subset of popular rappers from the conversation?
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:16 (thirteen years ago) link
OK I forget how good this was:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dumqStn1oQY
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:17 (thirteen years ago) link
deej you 1) argued that the term "coke rap" is offensive & inaccurate and 2) said this: & 'coke rap' is meaningless. its not a genre. or subgenre. its just common subject matter for music that comes from the inner city SHOCKER
that is the line I am taking issue with
you said it
I quoted you
I am not "arguing with something you never said"
I am arguing with your acceptance of a caricature of inner city life that sells out all the struggling people who live there in favor of scarface fantasy bullshit, which caricature is what's offensive, not grouping a bunch of guys who romanticize poisoning their neighborhoods together under one term like "coke rap"
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:18 (thirteen years ago) link
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:18 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
im arguing that the scarface fantasy is popular in the inner city, not that its ACCURATE
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:22 (thirteen years ago) link
yes, you are
this is a breathtaking mid-stream horse change & I salute you for it
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:23 (thirteen years ago) link
Good to see nothing about deej has changed in all these years.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:26 (thirteen years ago) link
aerosmith basically saying what I'm thinking here
jsut like to add that there's a weird disconnect between asserting that the prevalence of coke-dealing themes in modern hip hop is a reflection of "reality" while at the same time arguing that rappers these days are more well-defined aesthetic creations/personas than they were in the past - like, which one is it, fiction or non-fiction. is all this coke-themed stuff acceptable because it's REAL-LIFE REPORTING or because it's just a harmless cartoon? personally I think both positions are still basically suspect...
xp
― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:28 (thirteen years ago) link
im arguing that the scarface fantasy is popular in the inner city
where the hell did this come from...? I assume you're aware that "scarface fantasies" are even MORE popular outside of the inner city and maybe that's why so many rappers go to it - cuz that's where the money/major overlapping audience $$$ is...?
― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:30 (thirteen years ago) link
btw I apologize for this thread derail to anyone who was hoping for yet another nuanced discussion of the Wu-era
― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:31 (thirteen years ago) link
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:23 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark
how so??? all i said was as quoted by you "coke rap' is meaningless. its not a genre. or subgenre. its just common subject matter for music that comes from the inner city SHOCKER"
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:31 (thirteen years ago) link
i never said anything abt 'real life reporting'
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:32 (thirteen years ago) link
you jumped to conclusions
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:34 (thirteen years ago) link
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/onlygirl_1/backpeddling.gif
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:36 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm going to keep osting clips:
Hey, look, ODB taught me about Jim Croce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzHC6dxhVOc
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:36 (thirteen years ago) link
& i mean what do you tell a rapper like j stalin, actual crack baby who sold drugs when he was young & turned to rap -- 'sorry your life story is passe!'― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:00 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:37 (thirteen years ago) link
he does
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:40 (thirteen years ago) link
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:36 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
quote me saying otherwise you dishonest arguing dork
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:41 (thirteen years ago) link
vs.
i mean what do you tell a rapper like j stalin, actual crack baby who sold drugs when he was young & turned to rap -- 'sorry your life story is passe!'
I mean come on dude this is just... waht
― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:41 (thirteen years ago) link
listening to dude now and I am really enjoying him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4MoHtk1UUw
― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:42 (thirteen years ago) link
possibly because... this sounds like it could have come out in '94
― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:43 (thirteen years ago) link
he does― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:40 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:40 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:43 (thirteen years ago) link
unusual details in wikipedia articles
RZA has stated Ennio Morricone, Mark E. Smith, Syl Johnson, Marley Marl, Augustus Pablo and Danny Elfman as musicians he is fond of and has taken influence from.
― vehemence is mine (Edward III), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:47 (thirteen years ago) link
why is that unusual...?
― guanciale diary (s1ocki), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:51 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAonsDOKD84&feature=related
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:51 (thirteen years ago) link
xp Mark E Smith is pretty unexpected I gotta say.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:54 (thirteen years ago) link
btw, I've never listened to this dude but probably I would say something along the lines of: "can't you rap about anything else?"
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:37 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:40 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
lol I say this as a guy who loves oakland/bay area rap a lot & repsects stalin's flow but "he does" here means he also addresses human sexuality, e.g. 'When you see the dick, don't act retarded'
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:55 (thirteen years ago) link
And also apparently not true according to google.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:56 (thirteen years ago) link
? http://www.dapslyrics.com/j-stalin/last-night-lyrics/
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:57 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxz0fOUj0Hk
1:21
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:58 (thirteen years ago) link
I may be an asshole Alex but I wouldn't misquote somebody to win an argument w/deej when he'll have changed positions in a few more posts anyway
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 15:59 (thirteen years ago) link
that's pretty rich coming from someone who said "coke rap" was a genre with "fairly strict" definition up thread and is now all like, these sex raps don't uplift the ghetto.
― waka flocka display name (zvookster), Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:01 (thirteen years ago) link
xp sorry I was talking about RZA being a Mark E Smith fan.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:02 (thirteen years ago) link
― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:41 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this isnt contradictory at all. Cocaine in inner cities is real. it inspires both realism- based rap & grandiose scarface fantasies. its not a genre, its a fact of life that difft ppl deal with differently. its not something that CAN be 'passe' -- certain APPROACHES can be passe.
and my argument here is relentlessly consistent
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:05 (thirteen years ago) link
http://weeklydaily.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/BillClintonSadFace.jpg
― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:07 (thirteen years ago) link
cocaine in inner cities is kinda fake actually
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:07 (thirteen years ago) link
in ny maybe
although 'inner cities' is more & more inaccurate
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:17 (thirteen years ago) link
it's inconsistent to simply say "call me sire" is out of character in a way "don corleone hold the throne, that you know in your heart" isn't. it's inconsistent to dog gibbs or odd future for misogyny that you forgive in YG. it's inconsistent to co-opt rakim for a move away from rapping abt rapping and wordplay. it's inconsistent for a rap fan to be even dogging on wordplay. from a dude who can connect "lemonade" to "more colors". these just seem arbitrary distinctions based on ineffable likes and dislikes rather than "charisma" or "character" being all-important.
― waka flocka display name (zvookster), Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:17 (thirteen years ago) link
hey whiney have you actually pointed out one example of backpedalling or self-contradiction yet? no? stfu
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:18 (thirteen years ago) link
gee what a surprise deej arguing with 3 or more people in a thread
― melody-hating aggr0 nerd (San Te), Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:18 (thirteen years ago) link
it's just the pile-on mentality that has everbody pointing out supposed inconsistencies right
like you know what else is a reality, a much more prevalent one, than the drug dealer? the drug addict. res ipsa loquitur, to have a drug dealer you're going to need a customer base. but the reality of the addict & his suffering family and community - can you point me to a realism that addresses this for more than a verse or two? maybe one album from that standpoint? or to album sleeves with guys who've got hepatitis from dirty needles, hitting up their families for money, or losers doing three-year bids having no fun at all because prison actually kinda sucks? (nb if you don't think those stories are every bit as compelling as stories of dealers then man I have issues w/yr priorities straight up.) Cocaine in "inner cities" is real. The rap that it inspires is almost entirely focused on how it's either awesome to deal, or a burden to have to deal in order to make money, and it's deeply cynical. imo. and I think the audience for it is as much white guys who wouldn't know a kilo if it landed on their doorstep as it is people in poor neighborhoods who have to live next door to scumbag dealers. I still like the stuff when it's stories well told, who'm I kidding, I listen to goregrind, that shit is foul. but I don't make the argument (made by some gore freaks) that because serial killers exist, it's 'realistic' to have body counts in the thousands album after album. it's kinda bullshit, really, on both counts.
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:19 (thirteen years ago) link
consistency is the etc etc oh whatever
― strongohulkingtonsghost, Thursday, 14 October 2010 16:19 (thirteen years ago) link