classic Wu-Tang solo run poll

OK I forget how good this was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dumqStn1oQY

deej you 1) argued that the term "coke rap" is offensive & inaccurate and 2) said this: & 'coke rap' is meaningless. its not a genre. or subgenre. its just common subject matter for music that comes from the inner city SHOCKER

that is the line I am taking issue with

you said it

I quoted you

I am not "arguing with something you never said"

I am arguing with your acceptance of a caricature of inner city life that sells out all the struggling people who live there in favor of scarface fantasy bullshit, which caricature is what's offensive, not grouping a bunch of guys who romanticize poisoning their neighborhoods together under one term like "coke rap"

I am not "arguing with something you never said"

I am arguing with your acceptance of a caricature of inner city life that sells out all the struggling people who live there in favor of scarface fantasy bullshit, which caricature is what's offensive, not grouping a bunch of guys who romanticize poisoning their neighborhoods together under one term like "coke rap"

― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:18 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

im arguing that the scarface fantasy is popular in the inner city, not that its ACCURATE

I am not "arguing with something you never said"

yes, you are

im arguing that the scarface fantasy is popular in the inner city, not that its ACCURATE

this is a breathtaking mid-stream horse change & I salute you for it

Good to see nothing about deej has changed in all these years.

aerosmith basically saying what I'm thinking here

jsut like to add that there's a weird disconnect between asserting that the prevalence of coke-dealing themes in modern hip hop is a reflection of "reality" while at the same time arguing that rappers these days are more well-defined aesthetic creations/personas than they were in the past - like, which one is it, fiction or non-fiction. is all this coke-themed stuff acceptable because it's REAL-LIFE REPORTING or because it's just a harmless cartoon? personally I think both positions are still basically suspect...

xp

im arguing that the scarface fantasy is popular in the inner city

where the hell did this come from...? I assume you're aware that "scarface fantasies" are even MORE popular outside of the inner city and maybe that's why so many rappers go to it - cuz that's where the money/major overlapping audience $$$ is...?

btw I apologize for this thread derail to anyone who was hoping for yet another nuanced discussion of the Wu-era

im arguing that the scarface fantasy is popular in the inner city, not that its ACCURATE

this is a breathtaking mid-stream horse change & I salute you for it

― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:23 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

how so??? all i said was as quoted by you "coke rap' is meaningless. its not a genre. or subgenre. its just common subject matter for music that comes from the inner city SHOCKER"

i never said anything abt 'real life reporting'

you jumped to conclusions

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/onlygirl_1/backpeddling.gif

I'm going to keep osting clips:

Hey, look, ODB taught me about Jim Croce

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzHC6dxhVOc

& i mean what do you tell a rapper like j stalin, actual crack baby who sold drugs when he was young & turned to rap -- 'sorry your life story is passe!'

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:00 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

he does

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/onlygirl_1/backpeddling.gif

― gr80 antebellum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:36 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

quote me saying otherwise you dishonest arguing dork

i never said anything abt 'real life reporting'

vs.

i mean what do you tell a rapper like j stalin, actual crack baby who sold drugs when he was young & turned to rap -- 'sorry your life story is passe!'

I mean come on dude this is just... waht

listening to dude now and I am really enjoying him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4MoHtk1UUw

possibly because... this sounds like it could have come out in '94

he does

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:40 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

unusual details in wikipedia articles

RZA has stated Ennio Morricone, Mark E. Smith, Syl Johnson, Marley Marl, Augustus Pablo and Danny Elfman as musicians he is fond of and has taken influence from.

why is that unusual...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAonsDOKD84&feature=related

xp Mark E Smith is pretty unexpected I gotta say.

btw, I've never listened to this dude but probably I would say something along the lines of: "can't you rap about anything else?"

― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:37 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

he does

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:40 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol I say this as a guy who loves oakland/bay area rap a lot & repsects stalin's flow but "he does" here means he also addresses human sexuality, e.g. 'When you see the dick, don't act retarded'

And also apparently not true according to google.

? http://www.dapslyrics.com/j-stalin/last-night-lyrics/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxz0fOUj0Hk

1:21

I may be an asshole Alex but I wouldn't misquote somebody to win an argument w/deej when he'll have changed positions in a few more posts anyway

that's pretty rich coming from someone who said "coke rap" was a genre with "fairly strict" definition up thread and is now all like, these sex raps don't uplift the ghetto.

xp sorry I was talking about RZA being a Mark E Smith fan.

i never said anything abt 'real life reporting'

vs.

i mean what do you tell a rapper like j stalin, actual crack baby who sold drugs when he was young & turned to rap -- 'sorry your life story is passe!'

I mean come on dude this is just... waht

― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:41 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this isnt contradictory at all. Cocaine in inner cities is real. it inspires both realism- based rap & grandiose scarface fantasies. its not a genre, its a fact of life that difft ppl deal with differently. its not something that CAN be 'passe' -- certain APPROACHES can be passe.

and my argument here is relentlessly consistent

http://weeklydaily.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/BillClintonSadFace.jpg

cocaine in inner cities is kinda fake actually

in ny maybe

although 'inner cities' is more & more inaccurate

it's inconsistent to simply say "call me sire" is out of character in a way "don corleone hold the throne, that you know in your heart" isn't. it's inconsistent to dog gibbs or odd future for misogyny that you forgive in YG. it's inconsistent to co-opt rakim for a move away from rapping abt rapping and wordplay. it's inconsistent for a rap fan to be even dogging on wordplay. from a dude who can connect "lemonade" to "more colors". these just seem arbitrary distinctions based on ineffable likes and dislikes rather than "charisma" or "character" being all-important.

hey whiney have you actually pointed out one example of backpedalling or self-contradiction yet? no? stfu

gee what a surprise deej arguing with 3 or more people in a thread

and my argument here is relentlessly consistent

it's just the pile-on mentality that has everbody pointing out supposed inconsistencies right

like you know what else is a reality, a much more prevalent one, than the drug dealer? the drug addict. res ipsa loquitur, to have a drug dealer you're going to need a customer base. but the reality of the addict & his suffering family and community - can you point me to a realism that addresses this for more than a verse or two? maybe one album from that standpoint? or to album sleeves with guys who've got hepatitis from dirty needles, hitting up their families for money, or losers doing three-year bids having no fun at all because prison actually kinda sucks? (nb if you don't think those stories are every bit as compelling as stories of dealers then man I have issues w/yr priorities straight up.) Cocaine in "inner cities" is real. The rap that it inspires is almost entirely focused on how it's either awesome to deal, or a burden to have to deal in order to make money, and it's deeply cynical. imo. and I think the audience for it is as much white guys who wouldn't know a kilo if it landed on their doorstep as it is people in poor neighborhoods who have to live next door to scumbag dealers. I still like the stuff when it's stories well told, who'm I kidding, I listen to goregrind, that shit is foul. but I don't make the argument (made by some gore freaks) that because serial killers exist, it's 'realistic' to have body counts in the thousands album after album. it's kinda bullshit, really, on both counts.

consistency is the etc etc oh whatever

"it's inconsistent to dog gibbs or odd future for misogyny that you forgive in YG. "

its not about that -- in gibbs case, its that crimes can be forgiven by aesthetics. but when u are an aesthetic retread its hard for me to think anything but 'whats the point of this'

in odd future, the misogyny isnt the casual "i like one night stands -- ok now leave my house" its "I RAPED HER"

if you cant see a diff in tone then i dont know
& of COURSE we're talking about taste not objective rules abt what is 'good music' -- i never make those presumptions & no one ever does. we're always debating taste on here. should go w/out saying

ke you know what else is a reality, a much more prevalent one, than the drug dealer? the drug addict. res ipsa loquitur, to have a drug dealer you're going to need a customer base. but the reality of the addict & his suffering family and community - can you point me to a realism that addresses this for more than a verse or two? maybe one album from that standpoint? or to album sleeves with guys who've got hepatitis from dirty needles, hitting up their families for money, or losers doing three-year bids having no fun at all because prison actually kinda sucks? (nb if you don't think those stories are every bit as compelling as stories of dealers then man I have issues w/yr priorities straight up.) Cocaine in "inner cities" is real. The rap that it inspires is almost entirely focused on how it's either awesome to deal, or a burden to have to deal in order to make money, and it's deeply cynical. imo. and I think the audience for it is as much white guys who wouldn't know a kilo if it landed on their doorstep as it is people in poor neighborhoods who have to live next door to scumbag dealers. I still like the stuff when it's stories well told, who'm I kidding, I listen to goregrind, that shit is foul. but I don't make the argument (made by some gore freaks) that because serial killers exist, it's 'realistic' to have body counts in the thousands album after album. it's kinda bullshit, really, on both counts.

― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, October 14, 2010 11:19 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

fwiw i agree with all this?? you arent arguing w/ what i am actually saying & havent been

"arbitrary distinctions based on ineffable likes and dislikes"

aka music discussion/writing/crit

"it's inconsistent for a rap fan to be even dogging on wordplay. "

the issue is the centrality of wordplay, not its existence -- pretty much every form of rap has 'wordplay'

it's inconsistent to simply say "call me sire" is out of character in a way "don corleone hold the throne, that you know in your heart" isn't.

one suggests more nuance & character than the other, no?

anyone else want to go back to talking about solo Wu albums

it's inconsistent to co-opt rakim for a move away from rapping abt rapping and wordplay.

no. rakim's character as reflected by his aesthetic approach offered more dimension, more character, than simple wordplay. wordplay was there but it was superseded by character suggested by aesthetic

YES, DAN, EVERYONE

metal is a funny analog to rap in a lot of ways in terms of ugly/dark subject matter - I think that where it differs is that (with some exceptions) most metal is so plainly a huge cartoon. Realism/authenticity is not really a huge part of it (Varg Vikernes etc excepted yeah yeah). There's not a lot of metal dudes who are like, "no really, I am a serial killer and my music is like this cuz I'm keepin it REAL", it doesn't usually have the same relationship with authenticity (or perceived/claimed authenticity anyway) that rap does. which kinda makes it easier for me to enjoy, the jokiness/theatricality/fantasy of it is more up front.

xp